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post #1 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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SC ruling for Homosexuals

I've had this notion for a while and im seeing that its a trend among liberal (in the truest sense of the word) minded people. in light of the current supreme court ruling over the federal Defense of Marriage Act, i think that it is a good time to discuss such matters.

This is my notion: the government should have nothing to do with marriage. First off, i will start by saying that I am a firm believer in the Lord and I love Christ with everything I got. the most consistent political stance i can take on marriage in light of my faith is that the government should not hold any sort of authority over this union between two people. Republican christian conservatives love to toot the "traditional marriage" card. but that is malarky. the government issuing marriage licenses to be recognized by the state has NOTHING to do with traditional marriage.

the gov't should neither outlaw nor legalize gay marriage. it should neither outlaw nor legalize heterosexual marriage. This whole fight that most homosexual rights groups are battling against is absurd. they want to be recognized the same as heterosexual couples right? well what does that mean? it means simply that they want the same benefits FROM THE GOV'T that heterosexual partners have. they want the tax benefit, legal, medical all that stuff. It has NOTHING to do with the actual relationship between two people. Think about it. what are they really fighting for? they want to cohabitate? they can. they want to adopt? they can. they want to have sex? they can. They want to break up? they can. they can physically do everything a heterosexual couple can do only difference is, they aren't getting the same gov't benefits.

I just wanted to clear that up. All that talk about homosexual marriage being linked to interracial marriage is garbage. nothing about being homosexual is illegal like interracial marriages were.

now that we have the context clear, we can discuss how the govt is the problem between all this, as is most often the case.

Marriage is a covenant before God between two people. That's all it is. a covenant, a promise. it does not need to be certified by the gov't in order for it to be "official."

Obviously, a lot of people will not agree that marriage is a covenant before God and that's fine, i can understand that. but to all those who want to get married, just do it. atheists can set up their own methods of marrying two people, so can Jews, Muslims, Mormons ect. If you don't want to do it in a church, figure out some other method and do it yourself in whatever group you belong to.

regarding divorce and all that messy stuff with financial assets and kids, the courts are still a viable option for all that, just without all this messy red tape and legal restrictions that occur presently. sign prenups if you want or just dont get divorced. we do not need the government to say who is legitimately married or who isn't. We give way too much power to the gov't and we need to take it back. Individual rights are the anthem of classical liberals and this is what i propose.

Now, i do not approve or vote for any other type of marriage that does not occur before God, but you don't need my approval. just because i dont agree with you does not mean i am going to try to intimidate you through any means in order to impose my will upon you.

Govt is force. when you resist the gov't, violence occurs. Laws are the justification for future violence against those who dissent. if you vouch for any law, bear in mind that you are enacting force against all others to comply (this is why Rule of Law is necessary). This is not traditional marriage and this most certainly is not the Will of God.

cheers.

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post #2 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 02:31 PM
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It should be a state issue. The fact that the federal government is getting in on it is a joke. States should decide if they want to give the same tax benefits and other "perks". It can't NOT be a gov't issue because the gov't money is involved. If they are going to acknowledge gay marriages that is their choice and should be voted on by the people of that state. Federal gov't shouldn't be telling states what to do in this situation.

When will people see that when you let big government start to control every aspect of your life it will won't suddenly stop. They will continue to try and control everything.

It won't be long until there are federal regulations dictating the number of breathes you can take in a day.


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post #3 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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It should be a state issue. The fact that the federal government is getting in on it is a joke.

When will people see that when you let the government start to control every aspect of your life it will won't suddenly stop. They will continue to try and control everything.

It won't be long until there are federal regulations dictating the number of breathes you can take in a day.
Even though its not the federal gov't,state and local govt is still the gov't and you run the same course i bolded in your post.

Rule of Law, reserving everything to the States can still result in arbitrary gov't.

If we made everything a state issue, we would just establish little socialist states within a united nation. Democracy isn't necessarily the answer.

yes, state run democracy is more representative, but the most dangerous oppression can be a result of representative democracy. two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for lunch. this is why the founders set up a republic.

think about it. slavery. what if we made that a state's right? i hope you see my logic.

ending slavery was a correct enactment by the federal gov't because they did through amending the Constitution in the way prescribed by the Constitution.

i patiently await for your rebuttal my friend.


edit: in the way i am prescribing the solution, the gov't has no part in marriage and has no money involved. why do you say "the gov't can not be involved" ?

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post #4 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 02:52 PM
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State issue my ass. It's called freedom and equality. Religion can bite me, and stay the hell out of government. Gay people have the same rights that straight people have. The church is not welcome in the discussion.

This country is based on these freedoms, and no state has the right to take them away. I spent 8 years fighting for these freedoms, and yes...I will be VERY vocal about it.
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post #5 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 02:54 PM
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post #6 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 02:56 PM
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post #7 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 03:41 PM
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If two people want to spend their life together, who are we or any other person, have the right to say they can or cannot?
I truely hate religions that shove their beliefs down other people's throats. I don't care what your beliefs are, and frankly you can believe whatever you like, but don't go around calling others satan for not following your ideals.
The problem is that Religion will never separate from government and those donkeys and elephants in Congress likes to control the everyone with their ideals.
You have the freedom to believe, I have the freedom not to believe in your beliefs. That does not make me a "non-believer".

The true freedom and ideals that make America great is is nothing but a SHAM! Slavery->Women's rights->Civil Rights Movement-> Gay rights Movement-> What's next?
At what point in American history has people not fought for their rights? On the bright side, we live in a country where we have the right to fight for our rights
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post #8 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 03:58 PM
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Everyone deserves equal rights. Take marriage out of the hands of the gov't altogether.

Do I personally believe its right for same sex marriage?...No BUT I will not vote in a manner that takes someone's rights away because my religious beliefs telling me differently.

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post #9 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 04:20 PM
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I FULLY support same-sex marriage. I don’t care if they called it a civil union or a marriage, just let them do the same things hetero couples can do. They’re not harming anyone. They just want the same benefits and I’m all for that.

The thing I find funny is when people say homosexuality is a choice and therefore it’s not discrimination and it’s not against the constitution. To that I say, who cares? Even if it was a choice (which I think it’s not), what’s wrong with someone choosing a same-sex partner? Why shouldn’t they have the same benefits even if they choose to do that? IMO a marriage is a bond between two people regardless of race, sex, age, gender, religion, etc.
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post #10 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 04:31 PM
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What is the purpose of marriage? To get tax breaks, govt benefits/perks, medical, etc? Or to reproduce and populate the earth, while being fateful to one partner in life? Gays can't reproduce, so why get married? Go figure, end of times...

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post #11 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 04:42 PM
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What is the purpose of marriage? To get tax breaks, govt benefits/perks, medical, etc? Or to reproduce and populate the earth, while being fateful to one partner in life? Gays can't reproduce, so why get married? Go figure, end of times...

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you don't have to be married to have kids... look at how many single parents there are out there in society.

Who cares if somebody is gay, straight, asexual, or rainbow colored. It's a sense of belonging with another person. If straight couples get all these benefits/incentives from the government, why do gay couples not? Why should the government care? Why should the church care? They shouldn't because it's none of their business.

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post #12 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 04:49 PM
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What is the purpose of marriage? To get tax breaks, govt benefits/perks, medical, etc? Or to reproduce and populate the earth, while being fateful to one partner in life? Gays can't reproduce, so why get married? Go figure, end of times...
End of times? Lol, that's hilarious.

End of judgement, bias and narrow mindedness? Yeah, that's what we actually need.

Just because YOU define marriage one way means jack to anyone else. Guess what, it's not about you.
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post #13 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 04:53 PM
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What is the purpose of marriage? To get tax breaks, govt benefits/perks, medical, etc? Or to reproduce and populate the earth, while being fateful to one partner in life? Gays can't reproduce, so why get married? Go figure, end of times...

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My wife and I have chosen to not have kids. Should we nullify our marriage? Kids are not the be all and end all of marriage, especially when the world has 7 billion people and we don't need to save humanity from extinction.
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post #14 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 05:01 PM
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End of times? Lol, that's hilarious.

End of judgement, bias and narrow mindedness? Yeah, that's what we actually need.

Just because YOU define marriage one way means jack to anyone else. Guess what, it's not about you.
This is what's wrong with today's society. People keep worrying about things that will never affect them.
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post #15 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 05:01 PM
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You guys have your opinion and I have mine of marriage, you're free to do whatever you want in life and live however you want but pushing your ways on other people is absurd, this is a free country after all or is it?

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post #16 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 05:05 PM
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pushing your ways on other people is absurd, this is a free country after all or is it?
Correct, and now gay people have more freedom, and religious people can't push their ways on them anymore.

See, you DO get it.
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post #17 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 05:06 PM
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You guys have your opinion and I have mine of marriage, you're free to do whatever you want in life and live however you want but pushing your ways on other people is absurd, this is a free country after all or is it?

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I absolutely agree with this, which makes the case for same-sex marriage so vital. They just want to legally be allowed to do what other people are already doing.

Opinions are one thing, laws are another.
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post #18 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 05:12 PM
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The only good thing about same sex marriage is that they can't repopulate the world. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve ! But to each their own.:p

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post #19 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 05:14 PM
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The only good thing about same sex marriage is that they can't repopulate the world. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve ! But to each their own.:p
A supposed god has nothing to do with this.
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post #20 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 05:16 PM
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If 2 consenting adults want to get married, they should be allowed to and enjoy the same benefits everyone else has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by muzhik View Post
What is the purpose of marriage? To get tax breaks, govt benefits/perks, medical, etc? Or to reproduce and populate the earth, while being fateful to one partner in life? Gays can't reproduce, so why get married? Go figure, end of times...

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Quote:
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You guys have your opinion and I have mine of marriage, you're free to do whatever you want in life and live however you want but pushing your ways on other people is absurd, this is a free country after all or is it?

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post #21 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 05:24 PM
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Correct, and now gay people have more freedom, and religious people can't push their ways on them anymore.

See, you DO get it.
Unfortunately we live in a society that has perverted mind, and now "based on your words" religious people are minority, I just feel sorry for the next generation, God only knows what's coming...

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post #22 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 05:35 PM
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A supposed god has nothing to do with this.
One of the reasons God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah was because he did not want the Jews to be influenced by this evil. As the Creator of all things, God has the divine right to destroy evil as he sees fit. So ya God has everything to do with this !

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post #23 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 05:42 PM
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How funny that when a woman gets a divorce that no one brings up the bible. In the bible it says women shall be stoned for divorcing. Yet we bring up the bible for things like this.


The bible also states that the moon is its own source of light....so it's not very reliable.


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post #24 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 06:04 PM
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One of the reasons God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah was because he did not want the Jews to be influenced by this evil. As the Creator of all things, God has the divine right to destroy evil as he sees fit. So ya God has everything to do with this !
It's a fantasy.
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post #25 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 06:51 PM
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For thex

Once again you show how much of a hypocrit and judgmental you are. You say don't bash gays but you bash religion. Guess what I'm a Christian and I support gay rights/ marriage. Not all are the same. B/c you know it has that part about don't judge others. I also believe in separation of church and state. So get off your high horse. Fact is some ppl may push their views, but so do you so what's the difference.

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post #26 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 06:55 PM
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I don't care one bit about same sex marriage - they should have the right to be just as miserable as the rest of us. What I have a problem with is how the decision will affect popular referendum. Remember - California voted for this, and bc someone didn't like what their state decided, the popular vote was overturned. For the people, by the people, unless you don't like it then just invalidate the process....

How can it have been overturned on the grounds of constitutionality when first, same sex marriage hasn't been defined as being protected by the federal government yet, and second, the state voted as they have the right to do? If the federal government defined same sex marriage as protected, clearly California's result would be null and void, but the SC hasn't done that - they've put the cart before the horse.

Here is a quote from one of the dissenting Justices:

"What the court fails to grasp or accept is the basic premise of the initiative process. And it is this. The essence of democracy is that the right to make law rests in the people and flows to the government, not the other way around. Freedom resides first in the people without need of a grant from government," he said. "The California initiative process embodies these principles and has done so for over a century. ... In California and the 26 other states that permit initiatives and popular referendums, the people have exercised their own inherent sovereign right to govern themselves. The court today frustrates that choice."

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post #27 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 06:56 PM
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And for the religious ppl that think gay marriage will hurt yhe sanctity of marriage. ...look up the divorce rate. We as straight ppl have ruined it along time ago. If nothing else this will give many gay couples the right to adopt which means one more kid that has a chance to have a loving family

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post #28 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 07:11 PM
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For thex

Once again you show how much of a hypocrit and judgmental you are. You say don't bash gays but you bash religion. Guess what I'm a Christian and I support gay rights/ marriage. Not all are the same. B/c you know it has that part about don't judge others. I also believe in separation of church and state. So get off your high horse. Fact is some ppl may push their views, but so do you so what's the difference.
You're cute, but wrong.
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post #29 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 07:12 PM
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You guys have your opinion and I have mine of marriage, you're free to do whatever you want in life and live however you want but pushing your ways on other people is absurd, this is a free country after all or is it?

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You're contradicting yourself there. Then why do you care if gay ppl get married?
No one is pushing gay marriage onto you. No one is making you marry a dude. No one is forcing you to do anything!

You do have YOUR opinion on marriage, you marry a woman, you have kids, and you live a happy life.
Gay people marry each other, they adopt kids (a very good thing), and they live a happy life.

Why can't they have the tax benefits that we do?
What makes you better?
What makes you more deserving?


"this is a free country after all or is it?"
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post #30 of 179 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 07:14 PM
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I don't know much about religion, but all my life, I keep hearing that God loves everyone.
So why all the HATE?
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