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post #61 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 04:54 PM
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I just watched Obamas speech, wow, how did he get re-elected??? I find it scary that the country is ready to collapse and the President just points fingers and sluffs off concerns of long term consequences, what happened to real leadership that our Founding Fathers lived by
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He was also very vocally against raising the debt limit when Bush was president and he was a senator:


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post #62 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 05:21 PM
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Another thing to note is that a lot of the parks, monuments, and ocean :screwy: closures are requiring more personnel to barricade and patrol than are required to leave them open. Kinda reminds me of

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post #63 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 07:42 PM
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So since the government is shutdown and all, they can just leave the taxes IN my next check. I will be just fine with that. O_o


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post #64 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 12:36 PM
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Because you want to link the 2 in order to achieve a talking point.

Want the shut down to end? Be willing to compromise. NO ONE gets everything they want. PERIOD.

I seem to remember the president saying those EXACT words... Don't you? Well if he and you truly believe that, well then you don't get 100% of what you want either. So grow up and come to the table.
Pretty sure BOTH parties should WANT the shutdown to end. Passing the bill to end the shutdown should give them both what they want. Or at least what they say they want.


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Well they can't give up anything unless the senate is willing to negotiate something. The house can't do the negotiations FOR the senate. Come on dude, I KNOW you're smarter than this.
Senate and Pres have said pass the bill to open the government and they are more than willing to negotiate on entitlement reform as well as tax reform separately.

Also, why does anyone have to give up anything in this debate. Pass a bill to open the govt. No one is giving up anything. Period. I have no problem with Repubs not liking the ACA and wanting to defund/delay it. They have every right to try and do this, and they have, multiple times. What I have the problem with is them saying they're not going to pass a bill to fund the govt unless it includes this. If they want to do something about it, debate it and pass a bill for it, but do it separately.


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Who is stopping the senate from 1.) Voting on a CR that would open the govn. TODAY? There are several sitting on their desk. OR 2.) Come to the table to discuss what could be agreed on so both houses could sign a law they are willing to sign to open govn?

Who is stopping the democrats???
They have several, you are correct. Because at this point, the repubs just want to get anything out of this to make it look like they didn't hold out for nothing. They are not being voted on and they would not pass because they are bills that contain nothing resembling a compromise. They all have something in them that would defund or delay the ACA.

Do you know how many are in the House from the Senate waiting to be voted on to open the govt? ONE. Yup, just one. It's a simple bill. It would simply end the shutdown. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no compromise in this bill from EITHER party. No one loses anything.


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Right, whatever you think dude! Just keep the fingers in your ears and the blindfold on! Those democrats are just pure and god like! They would NEVER do anything for a political agenda, that's ONLY the republicans that would EVER do such a thing!

LMAO! That's just funny!!!
Your pretty good at putting words in my mouth. Never said this at all. But think what you will.


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Well then maybe they should come to the table and agree to give up something else? Hmmm, what an amazing thought! WOW! I must be some kind of GENIUS!
Again, why does anyone have to give up anything in this debate. Pass a bill opening the govt. Done. No one loses. No one gives up anything. Thousands of people get to return to work.

I get the whole compromise thing. Dems want something, they have to give the Repubs something they want. And vice versa. That's how it works. But keeping the govt running isn't something to be used as a bargaining chip.


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Right, because the senate says it's "our way or the highway" right? But the president comes out and says that it's the republicans that are always doing this... Hmmm.... Hypocrisy at its finest???

I think so...
How is the Senate wanting the govt to reopen "our way"? Keeping the govt open is supposed to be something both parties want.
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post #65 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 12:49 PM
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So since the government is shutdown and all, they can just leave the taxes IN my next check. I will be just fine with that. O_o


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No, that's going to be next week when the debt ceiling is going to have to be raised, because everyone knows you have to raise the ceiling to pay for more debt that will be added. You can't just stop raising your spending level, that is too easy.

So to take an example that was given. You are buying a house and you don't have enough money to cover that mortgage payment you just tell the bank to raise your amount and you will figure out how to pay for it next budget meeting. Or since this somehow relates to a US credit card and paying it off. Next time you max out your credit card call them up and tell them to raise the limit you are just going to pay minimum payments every month so doesn't really matter, let the next generation figure out how to fix this.




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post #66 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 01:17 PM
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^^^ But you are using logic and common sense. There's no place for those in government.


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post #67 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 01:20 PM
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Pretty sure BOTH parties should WANT the shutdown to end. Passing the bill to end the shutdown should give them both what they want. Or at least what they say they want.
Absolutely agreed, I believe that is what both parties want. Just seems that only one party is actually making the effort to make it happen...

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Senate and Pres have said pass the bill to open the government and they are more than willing to negotiate on entitlement reform as well as tax reform separately.
Right, you get what you want now and then we TALK about what I want later! Who wouldn't go along with that?

That makes PERFECT sense! I love their analogies too... Shame they keep messing them up. It's more like, yea you sign the paperwork now for this new car and I'll negotiate the price with you, after the fact. GENIUS! Why didn't I think of that!?!?!



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Also, why does anyone have to give up anything in this debate. Pass a bill to open the govt. No one is giving up anything. Period. I have no problem with Repubs not liking the ACA and wanting to defund/delay it. They have every right to try and do this, and they have, multiple times. What I have the problem with is them saying they're not going to pass a bill to fund the govt unless it includes this. If they want to do something about it, debate it and pass a bill for it, but do it separately.
Why? Because elected officials have constituents to answer to. And that's what their constituents demand of them.

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They have several, you are correct. Because at this point, the repubs just want to get anything out of this to make it look like they didn't hold out for nothing. They are not being voted on and they would not pass because they are bills that contain nothing resembling a compromise. They all have something in them that would defund or delay the ACA.
Yea, do you know what they don't resemble a compromise? Because the SENATE is yet to come to the table!

DUH! HELLO! Anybody home?

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Originally Posted by jbeck View Post
Do you know how many are in the House from the Senate waiting to be voted on to open the govt? ONE. Yup, just one. It's a simple bill. It would simply end the shutdown. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no compromise in this bill from EITHER party. No one loses anything.
Yes, actually we as a nation lose!

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I get the whole compromise thing. Dems want something, they have to give the Repubs something they want. And vice versa. That's how it works. But keeping the govt running isn't something to be used as a bargaining chip.
Once again JBeck, either you're misinformed or intentionally ignorant of history...

Please tell me then... 1.) How many times has government shut down in our history? 2.) Why did they shut down?

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How is the Senate wanting the govt to reopen "our way"? Keeping the govt open is supposed to be something both parties want.
I agree, now if the senate would just come to the table, maybe they could actually work together.


Answer me this JBeck. Why is it that Obama can illegally issue delays for the mandate to businesses but it's not ok to issue those VERY same delays to we, the people?

Remember, this wouldn't mean people couldn't enter the exchanges, if they wanted to. It would simply mean they wouldn't see the penalty of the mandate if they DIDN'T want to purchase healthcare now. And why shouldn't EVERYONE have to comply with the law as written?

This is a VERY good compromise that the republicans in the house has proposed.

Explain to me where the issue is with this?


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post #68 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 01:22 PM
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No, that's going to be next week when the debt ceiling is going to have to be raised, because everyone knows you have to raise the ceiling to pay for more debt that will be added. You can't just stop raising your spending level, that is too easy.

So to take an example that was given. You are buying a house and you don't have enough money to cover that mortgage payment you just tell the bank to raise your amount and you will figure out how to pay for it next budget meeting. Or since this somehow relates to a US credit card and paying it off. Next time you max out your credit card call them up and tell them to raise the limit you are just going to pay minimum payments every month so doesn't really matter, let the next generation figure out how to fix this.
Bad analogies. I agree something must be done about the debt. But raising the debt limit allows the country to pay it's bills that it's already incurred. It's not like raising the limit on a credit card so that the govt can go out and buy more stuff.
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post #69 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 01:28 PM
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Bad analogies. I agree something must be done about the debt. But raising the debt limit allows the country to pay it's bills that it's already incurred. It's not like raising the limit on a credit card so that the govt can go out and buy more stuff.
Guess SOMEONE should have thought about that before they decided to go giving money away, huh?

Hmmm... I seem to remember this being a debate before... Yet, it never happened!

Why would that be? Because once the democrats get what they want (like passing the CLEAN CR - or raising the debt ceiling) there's no reason to negotiate on anything! they already got what they wanted.

Oh but wait, that requires logic to understand.... Nevermind.


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post #70 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 01:33 PM
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End the shut down and we promise to negotiate.

It's like saying "Sign here to promise you will buy the car, then we can negotiate on the price." The same logic as "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it." And people are OK with this? WOW!

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post #71 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 01:39 PM
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post #72 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 01:42 PM
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End the shut down and we promise to negotiate.

It's like saying "Sign here to promise you will buy the car, then we can negotiate on the price." The same logic as "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it." And people are OK with this? WOW!
It's definitely not a coincidence that it was a democrat you said that then and a democrat saying this now...

They truly believe that crap! And they hope that we the people will fall for it. And I can't blame them because we have! It's SAD!

Just like the whole "not raising the debt limit" then but now we must.

I mean how many different things could you point out that the left has COMPLETELY flipped on now that they have the presidency? It must be DOZENS!


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post #73 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 01:48 PM
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Absolutely agreed, I believe that is what both parties want. Just seems that only one party is actually making the effort to make it happen...


Right, you get what you want now and then we TALK about what I want later! Who wouldn't go along with that?

That makes PERFECT sense! I love their analogies too... Shame they keep messing them up. It's more like, yea you sign the paperwork now for this new car and I'll negotiate the price with you, after the fact. GENIUS! Why didn't I think of that!?!?!
Pretty contradictory here. First you say ending the shutdown is what both parties want, then you say that by passing a clean bill to reopen the govt it's letting the dems ("you get what you want now") get what they want. That's what I get out of your analagy. You = Dems, I = Repubs.

I agree that it seems only one party is making an effort. It's just not the party you think.

Your car analogy is out of place and nothing like what passing a clean bill would be.


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Why? Because elected officials have constituents to answer to. And that's what their constituents demand of them.
I've never seen or heard of ANY constituent demanding a govt shutdown. And if one did, they should have to answer to one of the thousands of people currently not working and tell them why they don't get a paycheck.


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Yea, do you know what they don't resemble a compromise? Because the SENATE is yet to come to the table!

DUH! HELLO! Anybody home?
Pass a clean bill ending the shutdown. No need to compromise on anything.

Also, your condescending remarks are ridiculous and unwarranted. But if you need to stoop to that, I understand.


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Yes, actually we as a nation lose!
So your telling me that when the govt shutdown ends, we as a nation lose? I'm sure there are thousands of currently furloughed workers that would disagree with you.


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Once again JBeck, either you're misinformed or intentionally ignorant of history...

Please tell me then... 1.) How many times has government shut down in our history? 2.) Why did they shut down?
Oh, I know there have been plenty of shutdowns before. That doesn't excuse the fact. So just because the threat of a govt shutdown has been used as a bargaining chip in the past, doesn't mean it should now or in the future. For everytime that it's been used like this, there have been many instances when congress didn't.

I am neither misinformed NOR ignorant, intentionally or otherwise.


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I agree, now if the senate would just come to the table, maybe they could actually work together.


Answer me this JBeck. Why is it that Obama can illegally issue delays for the mandate to businesses but it's not ok to issue those VERY same delays to we, the people?

Remember, this wouldn't mean people couldn't enter the exchanges, if they wanted to. It would simply mean they wouldn't see the penalty of the mandate if they DIDN'T want to purchase healthcare now. And why shouldn't EVERYONE have to comply with the law as written?

This is a VERY good compromise that the republicans in the house has proposed.

Explain to me where the issue is with this?
Why was it illegal?

I would have NO issue with this compromise if a delay was put into place on the individual mandate. My issue is with it being tied to a bill that could have prevented the govt shutdown and could now end it.
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post #74 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 02:05 PM
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I agree that it seems only one party is making an effort. It's just not the party you think.
LOL Oh really? What has the senate done to compromise on their position in an effort to end the shut down?

Oh yea, they said "we won't compromise." Yup, CLEARLY they want it to end... VERY badly too I can see...

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Your car analogy is out of place and nothing like what passing a clean bill would be.
Oh no? why not?

That's EXACTLY what you're saying. You agree to this bill and I will negotiate what you get later. You, yourself just said exactly that.

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I've never seen or heard of ANY constituent demanding a govt shutdown. And if one did, they should have to answer to one of the thousands of people currently not working and tell them why they don't get a paycheck.
Nope, what they demanded was for our elected officials to fight back against the ACA law. And that is what they are doing.

Now, I wouldn't expect the democrats to cave on it either, because I would have to assume that they constituents would be in favor of the law. That's where COMPROMISE comes into play.

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Also, your condescending remarks are ridiculous and unwarranted. But if you need to stoop to that, I understand.
Not condescending at all, apparently you don't understand how things work when 2 sides don't agree on something, they come to the table and COMPROMISE. Wow, what a thought... I know, AMAZING!

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So your telling me that when the govt shutdown ends, we as a nation lose? I'm sure there are thousands of currently furloughed workers that would disagree with you.
If it means the country continues down the path we are currently on? Yes, we do. And I am sure there are MILLIONS of non-furloughed workers that would agree with me.

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Oh, I know there have been plenty of shutdowns before. That doesn't excuse the fact. So just because the threat of a govt shutdown has been used as a bargaining chip in the past, doesn't mean it should now or in the future. For everytime that it's been used like this, there have been many instances when congress didn't.
Man, maybe we are getting somewhere! lol

First you said: "But keeping the govt running isn't something to be used as a bargaining chip." But now you admit that it has happened in the past. In fact, it has happened 17 prior times since 1976.

And hmmm for everytime it WASN'T shut down, why do you think it was avoided? Maybe because there was a COMPROMISE!

Much like in the 95-96 shutdown when Bill Clinton was dealing with his opposition nearly every single day working towards a compromise.

Maybe Obama should get some advice from Clinton...

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I am neither misinformed NOR ignorant, intentionally or otherwise.
Well based on your prior comment I would have argued that you were, but you've since kind of changed on that, so I will somewhat agree with you on this.

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Why was it illegal?
Why? Because it's not written in the law. Therefore any NON-enforcement of the law is in fact illegal. But you didn't answer the question, tell me why that's ok?

Why can Obama issue/grant delays and waivers to groups or businesses to anyone HE (or THEY) want, but we can't get the same delay?

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I would have NO issue with this compromise if a delay was put into place on the individual mandate. My issue is with it being tied to a bill that could have prevented the govt shutdown and could now end it.
That makes ZERO sense! The house passed that EXACT CR prior to the government shutdown, and that CR is still sitting on the senate awaiting a vote. It could have avoided this entire mess!

AND IT'S ACTUALLY FAIR!!! For EVERYONE!

It still stands today, all the senate has to do is vote on it.


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post #75 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 02:06 PM
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It's more like, yea you sign the paperwork now for this new car and I'll negotiate the price with you, after the fact. GENIUS! Why didn't I think of that!?!?!
Didn't mean to steal your analogy. I must have missed it first time I read that post.


I like Austicus' comparison too.

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I love this comparison:

If you come home one day to find the sewers backed up and filled your house up to the ceiling with sewage. Do you simply raise the height of the ceiling or remove the sh!t?

Certainly you can do both, but just raising the ceiling still leaves you with a house full of sh!t.

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post #76 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 02:08 PM
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Didn't mean to steal your analogy. I must have missed it first time I read that post.


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post #77 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 02:34 PM
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LOL Oh really? What has the senate done to compromise on their position in an effort to end the shut down?

Oh yea, they said "we won't compromise." Yup, CLEARLY they want it to end... VERY badly too I can see...


Oh no? why not?

That's EXACTLY what you're saying. You agree to this bill and I will negotiate what you get later. You, yourself just said exactly that.


Nope, what they demanded was for our elected officials to fight back against the ACA law. And that is what they are doing.

Now, I wouldn't expect the democrats to cave on it either, because I would have to assume that they constituents would be in favor of the law. That's where COMPROMISE comes into play.


Not condescending at all, apparently you don't understand how things work when 2 sides don't agree on something, they come to the table and COMPROMISE. Wow, what a thought... I know, AMAZING!


If it means the country continues down the path we are currently on? Yes, we do. And I am sure there are MILLIONS of non-furloughed workers that would agree with me.


Man, maybe we are getting somewhere! lol

First you said: "But keeping the govt running isn't something to be used as a bargaining chip." But now you admit that it has happened in the past. In fact, it has happened 17 prior times since 1976.

And hmmm for everytime it WASN'T shut down, why do you think it was avoided? Maybe because there was a COMPROMISE!

Much like in the 95-96 shutdown when Bill Clinton was dealing with his opposition nearly every single day working towards a compromise.

Maybe Obama should get some advice from Clinton...


Well based on your prior comment I would have argued that you were, but you've since kind of changed on that, so I will somewhat agree with you on this.


Why? Because it's not written in the law. Therefore any NON-enforcement of the law is in fact illegal. But you didn't answer the question, tell me why that's ok?

Why can Obama issue/grant delays and waivers to groups or businesses to anyone HE (or THEY) want, but we can't get the same delay?


That makes ZERO sense! The house passed that EXACT CR prior to the government shutdown, and that CR is still sitting on the senate awaiting a vote. It could have avoided this entire mess!

AND IT'S ACTUALLY FAIR!!! For EVERYONE!

It still stands today, all the senate has to do is vote on it.

Well I'm done breaking these all down. You just keep saying the same things about how the Dems need to compromise and give the repubs what they want so that the repubs can compromise by allowing something that they, themselves, claim to also want. Some weird compromising going on in your head, but whatever.



Bottom line is the Repubs have no idea what they want. First they wanted to defund the ACA because it was, as they called it, the "worst bill in the history of the US". Then they changed and just wanted to delay it. Now there are some repubs saying they want tax and entitlement reforms and not even mentioning the ACA. When this first started, it was all about the ACA. Now it's not. Seems legit, right? Riiiiiight!

Here's my analogy:

Hey, you and I each have $10. We need an item that costs $15. Your saying that we can put our money together to get the item we NEED, but you get the change. If you don't get the change, then you're not willing to put our money together to get the item we need. And then you're blaming me that we don't have that item we need. While I think that we should each just throw in our $7.50 to get the needed item. Our extra $2.50 never comes into the equation. Then you accuse me of being unwilling to compromise. But you still need that $15 item, so then you want $4 of the change and I can have $1. I don't fall for it. So then you drop the request for the change all together, but instead you want something else now. Meanwhile, here we still sit, without our needed item when all you would have to do is just stop requesting the change or whatever other item you want and put your $7.50 together with mine.
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post #78 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 02:43 PM
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First they wanted to defund the ACA because it was, as they called it, the "worst bill in the history of the US". Then they changed and just wanted to delay it. Now there are some repubs saying they want tax and entitlement reforms and not even mentioning the ACA. When this first started, it was all about the ACA. Now it's not. Seems legit, right? Riiiiiight!
Sounds like they gave up some of everything they initially wanted. Time for the other side.

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Here's my analogy:

Hey, you and I each have $10. We need an item that costs $15. Your saying that we can put our money together to get the item we NEED, but you get the change. If you don't get the change, then you're not willing to put our money together to get the item we need. And then you're blaming me that we don't have that item we need. While I think that we should each just throw in our $7.50 to get the needed item. Our extra $2.50 never comes into the equation. Then you accuse me of being unwilling to compromise. But you still need that $15 item, so then you want $4 of the change and I can have $1. I don't fall for it. So then you drop the request for the change all together, but instead you want something else now. Meanwhile, here we still sit, without our needed item when all you would have to do is just stop requesting the change or whatever other item you want and put your $7.50 together with mine.



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Here's what it should be to be comparable.

Both sides have 10 bucks to buy a 15 buck item. You want me to put my $10 in then we negotiate how much you put in.

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post #79 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:02 PM
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You just keep saying the same things about how the Dems need to compromise and give the repubs what they want so that the repubs can compromise by allowing something that they, themselves, claim to also want.

Bottom line is the Repubs have no idea what they want. First they wanted to defund the ACA because it was, as they called it, the "worst bill in the history of the US". Then they changed and just wanted to delay it. Now there are some repubs saying they want tax and entitlement reforms and not even mentioning the ACA. When this first started, it was all about the ACA. Now it's not. Seems legit, right? Riiiiiight!
Um... Think about it jbeck, it's them trying to compromise!

Dude is it really THAT hard for you liberals to understand?

They do want to get rid of it all together, but they realize that they aren't going to get 100% of what they want, they realize they have to compromise. Therefore they have put forward full delays of the entire law and even simple just delays to the mandate, allowing people to still sign up for Obamacare exchanges should they want to.

Amazing... One side is actually trying to compromise and you call them out as if they don't know what they want. You're absolutely incredible! Liberals are just insane, they don't understand the simplest of things!


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Here's my analogy:

Hey, you and I each have $10. We need an item that costs $15. Your saying that we can put our money together to get the item we NEED, but you get the change. If you don't get the change, then you're not willing to put our money together to get the item we need. And then you're blaming me that we don't have that item we need. While I think that we should each just throw in our $7.50 to get the needed item. Our extra $2.50 never comes into the equation. Then you accuse me of being unwilling to compromise. But you still need that $15 item, so then you want $4 of the change and I can have $1. I don't fall for it. So then you drop the request for the change all together, but instead you want something else now. Meanwhile, here we still sit, without our needed item when all you would have to do is just stop requesting the change or whatever other item you want and put your $7.50 together with mine.
That is so far off base, you clearly have ZERO understanding on how negotiations work! Nice try though.

That analogy isn't even CLOSE to relating to the current situation!

This isn't rocket science. Democrats want the whole thing, republicans want none of it. Both parties should realize that nether can get 100% of they want. So come to the table and be ready to compromise! PERIOD!

Stop the grandstanding, stop thinking either party is better or worse than the other. Realize that there has to be give and take when you don't control all 3 branches of government.

That was how our government was structured, that was the intent of the founders. So man up and come to the table. Stop the games! The president coming out and hinting that he doesn't want to give in because it would give congress credibility is just stupid!

Divided congresses MUST make compromises whether either side likes it or not.


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post #80 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:05 PM
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Sounds like they gave up some of everything they initially wanted. Time for the other side.
Seems pretty simple, doesn't it? Yet some people don't understand. Almost makes you think they are intentionally avoiding understanding it.

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Here's what it should be to be comparable.

Both sides have 10 bucks to buy a 15 buck item. You want me to put my $10 in then we negotiate how much you put in.
I would say more like both of you want or need something. And both will use it. Each of you have $20 and the item cost $15, and THEN they say, well you buy it and we'll negotiate how much I'll reimburse you afterwards.

I think that would be a little closer.


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post #81 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:08 PM
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Sounds like they gave up some of everything they initially wanted. Time for the other side.
You can't say you want something and then when you don't get it, say you want something else and call it compromise.

I want $10. You won't give it to me? Ok, I want $5. You won't give it to me? Well then you are in the wrong because you're not compromising. I gave in by only requesting $5 instead of the initial $10. That's my compromise. So give me money.



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Here's what it should be to be comparable.

Both sides have 10 bucks to buy a 15 buck item. You want me to put my $10 in then we negotiate how much you put in.
Not at all. Both sides want to end the shutdown, or should. There's a bill that will do that and it includes nothing more for either side. BOTH just need to do their part and sign/pass the bill. There is no one side putting in money while the other isn't. It's just the Repubs not getting the little extra on the side that they are demanding.
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post #82 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:18 PM
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You can't say you want something and then when you don't get it, say you want something else and call it compromise.
LMAO!!!! Are you serious?

That's exactly what it is! If you want something but realize that it's not entirely up to you, you realize that you're going to have to negotiate with the other half.

Unlike the senate, the House acknowledges that they don't get everything they want because they only control half of congress. Therefore they tried to come up with compromises that they thought the senate would be willing to consider.

THEY were making the effort to avoid the shutdown, unlike the senate who did NOTHING but say they aren't willing to negotiate.

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I want $10. You won't give it to me? Ok, I want $5. You won't give it to me? Well then you are in the wrong because you're not compromising. I gave in by only requesting $5 instead of the initial $10. That's my compromise. So give me money.
If I owed you $10 and I wasn't willing to give you $10, but I offered you $5. And you said, no $7.50 and I agreed.

That would be called a COMPROMISE.

WOW I can't believe I am having to explain what a compromise is...


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BOTH just need to do their part and sign/pass the bill.
You missed the part where the republicans that were voted in promised they would do everything they could to get rid of the ACA law, they promised their voters! Now their voters are demanding exactly that.

You seem to think that the house works FOR the senate, or for the president or for previous laws. They do not, they ALL work for their constituents.

PERIOD - nothing more and nothing less.

They were sent there to oppose this law. And now they are. I would expect that democrats were sent there to pass and keep this law and that's what they are doing.

Now they both have to realize neither control 100% of congress, therefore they have to WORK TOGETHER.

For the life of me I don't understand what is so hard to comprehend!


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post #83 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:21 PM
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I will humor you and agree to your analogy, but there's still one major problem with it. My deposit is non-refundable while you still haven't put in your share yet.


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post #84 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:22 PM
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This isn't rocket science. Democrats want the whole thing, republicans want none of it. Both parties should realize that nether can get 100% of they want. So come to the table and be ready to compromise! PERIOD!
You say republicans want none of it. I related my analogy to the bill to end the shutdown, not the ACA. I KNOW that Repubs don't want any part of the ACA. Apparently you don't understand my analogy. I'll spell it out for you.

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Originally Posted by jbeck View Post
Hey, you and I each have $10. We need an item that costs $15. Your saying that we can put our money together to get the item we NEED, but you get the change. If you don't get the change, then you're not willing to put our money together to get the item we need. And then you're blaming me that we don't have that item we need. While I think that we should each just throw in our $7.50 to get the needed item. Our extra $2.50 never comes into the equation. Then you accuse me of being unwilling to compromise. But you still need that $15 item, so then you want $4 of the change and I can have $1. I don't fall for it. So then you drop the request for the change all together, but instead you want something else now. Meanwhile, here we still sit, without our needed item when all you would have to do is just stop requesting the change or whatever other item you want and put your $7.50 together with mine.
The "needed item" is the end of the shutdown. Your request for all the change is the repubs request to defund the ACA. Your request for all but $1 of the change is the repubs request to delay the ACA. Then, your dropping of the request for any/all the change is the repubs completely changing what they are asking for. My idea of both putting in $7.50 and not even including our $2.50 in the equation for the needed item (end of shutdown) is the idea of the Dems and Repubs passing the clean bill to end the shutdown.

Don't think I can make it any simpler than that.

It seems that you've mistaken this "needed item" as the ACA. Not sure how you could have done that as this whole discussion, at least for me, has been about ending the shutdown.

I, along with everyone else in the WORLD, know that the repubs don't want the ACA. What I've been saying is that their effort to do away with it should have no part in the bill that could have prevented the shutdown and that could now end it.

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This isn't rocket science.
My thoughts exactly......
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post #85 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:24 PM
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I will humor you and agree to your analogy, but there's still one major problem with it. My deposit is non-refundable while you still haven't put in your share yet.


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post #86 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:25 PM
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I will humor you and agree to your analogy, but there's still one major problem with it. My deposit is non-refundable while you still haven't put in your share yet.


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How so?

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post #87 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:26 PM
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You say republicans want none of it. I related my analogy to the bill to end the shutdown, not the ACA. I KNOW that Repubs don't want any part of the ACA. Apparently you don't understand my analogy. I'll spell it out for you.
Right, BUT, they are willing to COMPROMISE and work TOGETHER to find a middle ground. Unlike the senate.


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post #88 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:26 PM
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jbeck, are you contacting your senators telling them you think they should vote on the compromise that treats EVERYONE the same?


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post #89 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:28 PM
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It's not like raising the limit on a credit card so that the govt can go out and buy more stuff.
Do your really think they won't?

Interesting Article.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreyd...t-an-increase/


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post #90 of 232 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:34 PM
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Seems like the public is understanding! More so than I expected!!! I am very happy to hear that people are beginning to understand!

It looks like in a LOT of the polls that are coming out that people are getting very upset that the president isn't compromising with republicans!!

Very happy to hear this!

Maybe people are paying attention and I know some have really tried to understand our form of government and how it was supposed to work.

Makes me smile! Maybe there is a solution that's coming! I hope!!!


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