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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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5 things about life/government

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!.
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.




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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 07:56 PM
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There are also 2 things that are guaranteed in life
1. Taxes
2. Death

The first might be a direct lead into the second

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 08:17 PM
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All 5 are true.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-13-2014, 08:36 PM
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I like the first half of number 5. Never really thought about the second half of it though.

Do you think we are seeing that now? Where the working party is starting to move into the unemployed/government supported party?


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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-14-2014, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Yes I think that is where we are now. Those that are working are being taxed more and more. Many of those that are using it "on the system" don't want to give it up. It's an easy check with little to nothing to do in return. 99 weeks to find a job? That is a joke and to extend this is a smack in the face of all of those that are working and continue to work. The government telling us that those that receive "unemployment checks or "REEMPLOYMENT" checks because they changed the name of it this year are helping the economy is a kick in the balls" Does anyone really believe that unemployment checks create jobs in the private sector? If something happens they go get another job or two or three to provide for themselves and their family. Sure a couple weeks may be needed to get you back on your feet but not 99 weeks.




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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-14-2014, 12:05 PM
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Welfare has become a way of life for too many people. The freeloading general public has lost all pride and would rather do nothing and live like slobs than work and make a life for themselves. Sadly this will probly never change, especially with the leadership we have in office now.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-14-2014, 12:54 PM
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Agreed there are too many out there who abuse unemployment benefits. I wouldn't do away with it completely because I feel it is beneficial to the economy to have a safety net feauture as well as humane for children living under such circumstances. But legislation surrounding it should be getting more stringent not lax. I'm Canadian but the principle is the same.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-16-2014, 03:03 PM
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I just received an audit notice on my tax return for 2012 from the IRS. It puzzles me!!!
They are questioning how many dependents I claimed.

I guess it was because of my response to the instruction: "List all dependents?"
I replied: 12 million illegal immigrants; 3 million crack heads;
42 million unemployed people on food stamps,
2 million people in over 243 prisons,
half of Mexico, 535 persons in the U.S. House and Senate,
1 totally useless President.
1 moron Vice President.


Evidently, this was NOT an acceptable answer.


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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-17-2014, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teetopps315 View Post
Welfare has become a way of life for too many people. The freeloading general public has lost all pride and would rather do nothing and live like slobs than work and make a life for themselves. Sadly this will probly never change, especially with the leadership we have in office now.
How to approach this in a politically correct manner? Hmmmmm?

Can we as a population somehow bring back the feeling of personal shame associated with receiving government benefits?

Maybe we do need to make them feel like third class citizens for being on the public dole and shame them into actually getting a self supporting job.

I'm talking about the group of people that happen to have the highest unemployment in almost all categories.

We might also need a government education program to inform them of the usage and benefits of condoms.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-18-2014, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teetopps315 View Post
Welfare has become a way of life for too many people. The freeloading general public has lost all pride and would rather do nothing and live like slobs than work and make a life for themselves. Sadly this will probly never change, especially with the leadership we have in office now.
It's not just the leadership we have now, and part of the problem is that the left is too busy blaming the right and vise versa to see what is really going on.
In the 60s and 70s there was a lot of civil unrest, not just in the us but in all of the first world countries. Because of this, rich and powerful people from all over the world got together to form the trilateral commission in 1973. The purpose of forming this commission was to determine why. They created a report called "The Crisis of Democracy" and one of the major causes of this civil unrest listed in the report was the overeducation of the general population, and the fact that the education system was creating freethinkers. They determined that to create a more obedient population, the education systems focus needed to be the creation of workers. (If you think I'm making this up, do your own research).

Fast Forward to Bush #2 when the change in the education systems goals will have had an impact on the voting population and you get September 11th, resulting in the patriot act, because a conservative was in power and that is what the conservatives would go for. Fast forward to Obama and we have the affordable care act, because that is what the liberals would go for, and if you look at the root and true purposes of both of these, you will find that they take power out of the hands of the citizens and put money (in one form or another) into the hands of those in power (both in and out of the spotlight). In fact, if you look at a majority of the legislation as of late, you will notice that someone in power benefits. The only difference between the Dems and Reps is the piece of the agenda they are able to push through while they are the face of the true puppet masters. The purpose of this party system is to make people think they have a choice.


The welfare and socialist push isn't meant to help people, and those in power are not naive enough to think it is. Realistically, I don't think that people can wake up because the most fundamental question of a free society has been brainwashed out; "why"

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-18-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AF4iK View Post
Agreed there are too many out there who abuse unemployment benefits. I wouldn't do away with it completely because I feel it is beneficial to the economy to have a safety net feauture as well as humane for children living under such circumstances. But legislation surrounding it should be getting more stringent not lax. I'm Canadian but the principle is the same.
It gets passed on from generation to generation too, and people grow up not really knowing any other way. I know that sterilization is taboo and was outlawed...but I'm not opposed to it

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 12:27 PM
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I dunno... those 5 things are true no doubt, but the balance has swung too far. The distribution of wealth is way way out of whack.

IMO the rich (annual income of say 500k or greater) DO need to be taxed substantially more, whether that be by increasing the amount they pay or by reducing the number of ways they can make deductions doesn't matter, they just need to be giving more of it to the government.

Conversely, the amount low income earners pay should be substantially reduced. The way things stand the 'great dream' of owning your own home has gone out the window unless you can get some serious help from your parents or the like. Housing affordability and cost of living has been outpacing wage increases for more than 30 years. I'm now at the point where I don't think I'll ever be in a position to own a home.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/o...-1226725468659

Then there is the question of unemployment benefits... they have their place, but what they need is a time limit. Over here we have people that have been receiving it for more the 25 years. That **** needs to stop. I can understand how people get stuck on them for months, particularly with the job market being the way it is now but after a year or so it should be reduced and after two it should be stopped. You can bet your arse that people will go find work when they realise that they are about to be penniless.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 09:18 PM
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What the masses fail to realize is that the wealthiest can be broken into two groups; builders and takers. We need the builders and punishing them with taxes will not be beneficial. All of the recent (last few decades) govt regulation has harmed the builders and often benefited the takers, because the takers pull the strings. Because sheeple can't tell the difference the builders are continuously used as the scapegoats, the takers continue to destroy companies, drain retirements and burn through tax dollars, and the income inequality gap will only grow. Turning to your government for help is like a deer asking the hunter for help.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 10:42 PM
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That's the thing though. The ones that actually work for their money such as property developers and the like aren't earning the ridiculously high dollars, they do well for themselves but they put the hard yards in for it. The ones that I don't like are the investment bankers and what not. They take other peoples money from retirement funds etc and make high risk investments, when they pay off the banker takes a huge portion of the profit but when it doesn't work the layman such as you and I pay the price. These people are taking advantage of the hard work we put in to fund them and shoulder the risk on their investments and then they take all the reward. This (and a similar thing in the properties market) is exactly what nearly brought down the American economy not that long ago. These are the people who need to be taxed to the hilt.

Here's a couple of numbers...

85 people (that's eighty five as in less than 100) control as much wealth as the world's bottom half. That is to say that there are 85 people in this world who control the same amount of wealth as 3.5 BILLION of us.

The top 1% in the world control 65 times the wealth of that same 3.5 billion people.

1% of the US population took 95% of the 2009 to 2012 growth, while the bottom 90% of the population got poorer.

I'm all for a capitalist economy where hard work is rewarded but there needs to be bounds. You can't honestly tell me that the way it is now is productive or even sane.

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 11:03 PM
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just reading those numbers hurts me.

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 04:03 PM
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That's the thing though. The ones that actually work for their money such as property developers and the like aren't earning the ridiculously high dollars, they do well for themselves but they put the hard yards in for it. The ones that I don't like are the investment bankers and what not. They take other peoples money from retirement funds etc and make high risk investments, when they pay off the banker takes a huge portion of the profit but when it doesn't work the layman such as you and I pay the price. These people are taking advantage of the hard work we put in to fund them and shoulder the risk on their investments and then they take all the reward. This (and a similar thing in the properties market) is exactly what nearly brought down the American economy not that long ago. These are the people who need to be taxed to the hilt.

Here's a couple of numbers...

85 people (that's eighty five as in less than 100) control as much wealth as the world's bottom half. That is to say that there are 85 people in this world who control the same amount of wealth as 3.5 BILLION of us.

The top 1% in the world control 65 times the wealth of that same 3.5 billion people.

1% of the US population took 95% of the 2009 to 2012 growth, while the bottom 90% of the population got poorer.

I'm all for a capitalist economy where hard work is rewarded but there needs to be bounds. You can't honestly tell me that the way it is now is productive or even sane.



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It's not OK or sane, and you and I are in agreeance as you just listed some of the takers. I was merely pointing out that the takers are in control of the 1st world governments so looking to give more to this government in terms of money or power will only worsen things. The takers aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot and if you dig deep enough you'll realize that that's who really pulls the strings.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 05:24 PM
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Your system of government is a little different to ours... the monkeys we have running the show are involved with all the big dollar people for sure but there is only one that actually IS one of them, and he's not real popular with the rest of them... even had to start his own party to get it.
The way our system works is considerably more immune to corruption that your's, which is not to say that it isn't fatally flawed either. It just does a better job of controlling the private money that's poured into a candidates coffers and the 'favours' that are expected as a result.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Your system of government is a little different to ours... the monkeys we have running the show are involved with all the big dollar people for sure but there is only one that actually IS one of them, and he's not real popular with the rest of them... even had to start his own party to get it.
The way our system works is considerably more immune to corruption that your's, which is not to say that it isn't fatally flawed either. It just does a better job of controlling the private money that's poured into a candidates coffers and the 'favours' that are expected as a result.
Sorry, but I must raise the question; how is it that a company that is listed on the stock exchange as the Australian Government, as opposed to our constitutionally appointed Government of the Commonwealth of Australia, less corrupt?

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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 02-18-2014, 06:44 PM
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Sorry mate, I don't really understand the question?

My point was that the only person that I'm aware of that has blatantly used his money and position within private sector to land a seat in government is Clive Palmer.

That said, political donations above the ~$13,000 are reviewed for conflict of interest and corruption. This makes it harder for private sector donations to fly in under the radar because they are subject to scrutiny and the details are made public. Effectively that 12k can be donated once in each state and territory without raising the flag so in actual fact party donations are capped at about the ~$110,000 mark to still be secret.

As I said... more immune to the sort of corruption the states have but still screwed up beyond repair.
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