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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-12-2016, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Donald J. Trump

FOR The mother effin WINNN


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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-12-2016, 10:01 PM
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But, the millennials??? What will happen to their safe spaces?
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-12-2016, 11:49 PM
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I'm glad he won. I would have hated to see Clinton in the white house..

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 12:43 PM
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But, the millennials??? What will happen to their safe spaces?
Don't worry the millennials will be fine, they are protesting the president elect to ensure someone will coddle them, tell them they're special, and hand them participation trophies

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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 12:46 PM
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i'm very very glad i don't live there. it's sad to see people outwardly showing hate and disgust for their fellow americans.

you're all on the same team, whether you like it or not. the success of the economy while you get old and useless is going to depend on these people you despise so much, maybe it's time to change your tune.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 01:02 PM
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i'm very very glad i don't live there. it's sad to see people outwardly showing hate and disgust for their fellow americans.

you're all on the same team, whether you like it or not. the success of the economy while you get old and useless is going to depend on these people you despise so much, maybe it's time to change your tune.

We live here, we know we are on "the same team". I personally dont despise anyone, but I can't stand the sense of entitlement that the majority of this next generation seems to operate under. It's up to their parents to teach them right from wrong, a proper work ethic, that they must face consequences for their actions, etc. Most have failed to do so, and we are all stuck with the result.
This country is my home. I'm not looking for anyone else to take care of me. I'm setting myself up so I can afford the care I need. If people would live affordably instead of spending half of what they earn on a car, they'd be able to plan for their futures as well.
I've always enjoyed your posts until this one Wibbly, but if you're glad you aren't here I'm also glad you're not here.

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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 01:10 PM
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it was quite a bit more broad ranging than an attack at you


the entire campaign of DJT was built on division. that's where he got all his traction.

i don't disagree with a lot of his policy, but this election was never about policy.



bottom line, there is a lot of hate and resentment in the states, and it's unfortunate. seems as though you can either be to the right or the left and that middle ground just doesn't exist.


every generation has looked at its youth with worry, millennials are just the next batch of useless kids that we've been churning out for hundreds of years.


you're right though, the parents are to blame for a lot of it, but so is the school system.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 02:35 PM
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this election was never about policy.
They never are or the promises made would actually be kept.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 06:08 PM
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I understand you weren't singling me out, but I love my country so it's personal to me.
Elections are always built on division, it's one party pitted against the other. The nation is divided for a bit, but things always calm down.
The school systems are primarily run by democrats, from the administration to the educators. So yes, they are to blame as well.

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-13-2016, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't realize he encouraged division. People call him a racist which I do not understand. The only division I know of is his hatred for the illegal aliens. I kinda share in that too. There is a perfectly legal way to come over here and be a tax paying, law abiding citizen.

I wish a political campaign could be ran without ever mentioning ones' opponent. Apparently we live in a time where finger pointing and name calling are the way to win people's hearts. If that's the divisiveness you're referring too, then I agree. But I do love the good ole USA as much as any man. Hopefully all these Cry baby millennials that I'm ashamed to be at the forefront of can suck it up and realize that the world doesn't owe us anything. We have gone soft on disciplining our children and teaching them how tough the world can be. Everyone is learning to be dependent. I don't intend to go on a tirade though. I love my country and I hope we can get headed in a more prosperous direction in terms of prosperity and Liberty.

Y'all don't kill each other in here.

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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 12:39 AM
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the division i refer to is more to do with the two party system and the media.


the right accuse the left of being business destroying commie bastards

the left accuse the right of being ignorant racist low iq bottom feeders


there is no middle ground, and the system is designed to eliminate it



the republican house sat for years and years and years and gleefully destroyed any legislation the democratic president attempted

if the house had gone democrat this election you can rest assured they'd do exactly the same to the republican president

they'd revel in it



that's awful, and bad for progress, and bad for the country.



now there is a republican president and house and senate, one has to wonder whether there will be any checks to legislation presented, or if they'll just push through anything they can knowing damn well they may lose the privilege.


that could again prove to be a dangerous thing.




i'm interested to see how this all unfolds as the path taken by the USA in the next four years is very likely to have a dramatic effect on both my country and the economy of my province.
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 12:53 AM
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Thanks for the well written post, Mr. W !

IMO, the US - 2 party system has performed deplorably for the middle class........since 1970's at least.

However, we are having a very difficult time ridding ourselves of the Rep/Dem paradigm.

Neither offer paths to a sensible future IMO......ATM.

(I'm hopeful, but seen this puppet show before....)

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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 07:45 AM
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the division i refer to is more to do with the two party system and the media.


the right accuse the left of being business destroying commie bastards

the left accuse the right of being ignorant racist low iq bottom feeders


there is no middle ground, and the system is designed to eliminate it



the republican house sat for years and years and years and gleefully destroyed any legislation the democratic president attempted

if the house had gone democrat this election you can rest assured they'd do exactly the same to the republican president

they'd revel in it



that's awful, and bad for progress, and bad for the country.



now there is a republican president and house and senate, one has to wonder whether there will be any checks to legislation presented, or if they'll just push through anything they can knowing damn well they may lose the privilege.


that could again prove to be a dangerous thing.




i'm interested to see how this all unfolds as the path taken by the USA in the next four years is very likely to have a dramatic effect on both my country and the economy of my province.
This outlines the major problems with this country and its political system perfectly; the fact that the entire checks and balances system is now one party scares the hell out of me. Putting this circus under control of a massive egomaniac with no prior experience and who has no idea what long term effects his decisions will make is putting the country into territory that can really cause massive worldwide negative effects we may never recover from.

Scary.

We'll see how much they get pushed through before people start to freak. Not saying the democrats were any better either just that the entire country created this situation, let's see how we deal with it now that we've gotten what we wanted.

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 09:40 AM
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I'm not specifically pro any one party but I did read something interesting about the implications of Trump's presidency. He's a businessman and not a career politician. You can scream all you want about his numerous failures, but the truth remains that he's still well afloat.

He himself may not know all of the ins and outs of politics but part of being a decent businessman is surrounding yourself with people that fill in the gaps in your expertise. Presumably he's going to extend that into the office and vet his advisers not purely based on politics but on their capability as well.

Only time will tell what will actually happen but I enjoyed that read.
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 09:44 AM
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...now that we've gotten what we wanted.

That's the problem...it's not what "we" (the majority of America) wanted. He didn't win the popular vote and that demonstrates how incredibly frustrating our voting system is. It's insane that a candidate can lose the popular vote by 700,000 votes yet still win the electoral college by a very healthy margin.


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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 10:08 AM
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I don't like Trump, but seeing "DEMOCRATS" protesting the results of DEMOCRATIC elections speaks very bad about them.

When Trump said he would contest the results if he didn't won, Democrats started screaming to the skies.... What has finally happened??

Democrats protesting against their democratic values.


In another hand, I think Mr. Trump, with his politically incorrect speech got in touch with a part of america that was invisible and forgotten.

I only hope his political speech was just that, a bait for a certain group of voters and that now in the real political life he is gonna make good decitions... for the sake of the whole world.

Only time will tell....
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 10:16 AM
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I don't like Trump, but seeing "DEMOCRATS" protesting the results of DEMOCRATIC elections speaks very bad about them.

...
I can't see how the US system is "democratic". Democrats had 700k more votes than the Liberals, yet, because of that electorial system, Trump still won. It's a very weird system...


I'm very curious to see how the next 4 years unfold. Could have a very big impact on our economy as well.

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 11:07 AM
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I can't see how the US system is "democratic". Democrats had 700k more votes than the Liberals, yet, because of that electorial system, Trump still won. It's a very weird system...
Differences in electoral systems does not mean lack of democracy. One day it was chosen by mayority and it can be changed by majority.

Here in Spain, the candidate that has the most votes doesn't necessarily gonna be president if he cannot negotiate with the rest of the parties.

Still democracy.

Do you actually think that US election system is non democratic?? That is nuts!

Democracts accepted the electoral system (or they would had, at least, try to change it), they knew the rules of the game, they played the game, they lost the game... Now they are wipping...

That my friend is a no-no ...

PS: I would have voted for Hillary... I would have never gone to the streets to protest for an unliked outcome, that is just wrong. plain wrong.



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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 11:36 AM
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Differences in electoral systems does not mean lack of democracy. One day it was chosen by mayority and it can be changed by majority.

Here in Spain, the candidate that has the most votes doesn't necessarily gonna be president if he cannot negotiate with the rest of the parties.

Still democracy.

Do you actually think that US election system is non democratic?? That is nuts!

Democracts accepted the electoral system (or they would had, at least, try to change it), they knew the rules of the game, they played the game, they lost the game... Now they are wipping...

That my friend is a no-no ...

PS: I would have voted for Hillary... I would have never gone to the streets to protest for an unliked outcome, that is just wrong. plain wrong.

Not saying it's not democratic, like you said, it was chosen to do so. And it stems from the US being multiple states. I'm just saying that their democracy doesn't represent the majority of the voters. And this, imho, is contradictory to why you'd want a democracy.
It's the same here as in Spain I guess. Multiple parties, the biggest party can lead the negotiations first, if it fails, the King appoints somebody else etc. But in the end, a coalition has to be formed, representing the majority of the voters.


That's where it seems kinda weird to me in the US system.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 12:02 PM
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It's the same here as in Spain I guess. Multiple parties, the biggest party can lead the negotiations first, if it fails, the King appoints somebody else etc. But in the end, a coalition has to be formed, representing the majority of the voters.
Eggxactly!, and if the biggest party fails, then a smaller party could be chosen by the King...



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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 05:11 PM
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Not saying it's not democratic, like you said, it was chosen to do so. And it stems from the US being multiple states. I'm just saying that their democracy doesn't represent the majority of the voters. And this, imho, is contradictory to why you'd want a democracy.
It's the same here as in Spain I guess. Multiple parties, the biggest party can lead the negotiations first, if it fails, the King appoints somebody else etc. But in the end, a coalition has to be formed, representing the majority of the voters.


That's where it seems kinda weird to me in the US system.
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That's the problem...it's not what "we" (the majority of America) wanted. He didn't win the popular vote and that demonstrates how incredibly frustrating our voting system is. It's insane that a candidate can lose the popular vote by 700,000 votes yet still win the electoral college by a very healthy margin.


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The indirect system of choosing a new president is certainly interesting but there is a method behind the apparent madness. The United States is in fact made up of states, not just a big mob of us humans milling around in a single amorphous blob. One of the intentions in the creation of the electoral system was to combine a popular vote (population based) with a state based selection (meaning every state gets to vote for who gets elected). What we end up with is this combination where each state gets one choice but states with more people get more weight. It makes a sort of sense when you realize that what is best for the country is not always what's best for a single state, even if that state has a massive population. In an extreme case we could end up with one or two giant states that pick the president every single time. Heck I live in Texas and even I wouldn't want us to pick every single president and force everyone else in the country to deal with it.

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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-14-2016, 09:32 PM
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Been hearing this security clearance for DJT's adult children which supposed to be the blind thrust of his empire? I mean, here he hold Hillary for sharing classified info but yet he went ten steps further?!

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 03:51 AM
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...
Thanks for the explanation, I thought that's where it stems from.




@venomenon83 : Think his daughter would assume First Lady duties, that's why probably.

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-15-2016, 04:12 AM
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@venomenon83 : Think his daughter would assume First Lady duties, that's why probably.
Crazy part is, hes placing unqualified individuals in the office... Forget about credentials and experience, this is nepotism to the core.
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 04:24 PM
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I can't see how the US system is "democratic". Democrats had 700k more votes than the Liberals, yet, because of that electorial system, Trump still won. It's a very weird system...


I'm very curious to see how the next 4 years unfold. Could have a very big impact on our economy as well.
The US system is not a democracy; it is a representative democracy meaning there are people (electors) who are supposed to represent the people of their state.

In reality our vote in the majority of states doesn't mean anything but that is NOT a reason in my mind to not vote (I believe that it's better to express your voice in some way rather than being silent). I firmly believe the system should change to make one persons vote equal one vote for the president. It's silly that as it stands the smaller your states population is the more of an impact you theoretically have on the election.

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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-16-2016, 11:18 PM
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The US system is not a democracy; it is a representative democracy meaning there are people (electors) who are supposed to represent the people of their state.

In reality our vote in the majority of states doesn't mean anything but that is NOT a reason in my mind to not vote (I believe that it's better to express your voice in some way rather than being silent). I firmly believe the system should change to make one persons vote equal one vote for the president. It's silly that as it stands the smaller your states population is the more of an impact you theoretically have on the election.
Can you explain how?

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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 12:37 AM
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Can you explain how?
Sure, I'll use the 3 biggest vs 3 smallest states (I'm going to count DC as a state as it gets its own votes) as an example.

State------Rank ---Population-------Electoral Votes
_______________________________________
California---1------38,332,521---------55
Texas-------2------26,448,193---------38
New York---3------19,651,127---------29

DC----------49-----646,449-------------3
Vermont----50-----626,630-------------3
Wyoming---51-----582,658-------------3

These would be the ratios of votes / electoral college vote:
California---696,955 : 1
Texas-------696,005 : 1
New York---677,625 : 1
VS
DC----------215,483 : 1
Vermont----208,877 : 1
Wyoming---194,219 : 1

Meaning someones vote in Wyoming is worth over 3 times more than someones vote in California.

I think this is a silly system because swing states end up deciding the election and if you don't live in a swing state your vote almost doesn't count. In an America with no electoral college Californian republicans and Kentucky democrats would actually have an effect on the outcome of the election.

This would also give more power to 3rd parties rarely ever get any electoral votes and increase voter turnout.

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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 03:29 AM
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So... the weighting of the different states is off... interesting!

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subnet View Post
Sure, I'll use the 3 biggest vs 3 smallest states (I'm going to count DC as a state as it gets its own votes) as an example.
..
Meaning someones vote in Wyoming is worth over 3 times more than someones vote in California.

I think this is a silly system because swing states end up deciding the election and if you don't live in a swing state your vote almost doesn't count. In an America with no electoral college Californian republicans and Kentucky democrats would actually have an effect on the outcome of the election.

This would also give more power to 3rd parties rarely ever get any electoral votes and increase voter turnout.
That is true, each person's single vote has more influence - but only within their own state. But your whole analysis and the idea that the proportions are off is based on trying to make every vote count exactly the same as every other vote and that's not the goal of the electoral system, if it was we would simply use the popular vote. Remember, this system is a compromise that mixes the solution of a popular vote and a state vote. I'm not defending it, just saying it seems to do what it was meant to do.

Just think about how it used to be when you didn't even vote for the candidates, you voted for your local elector and you were supposed to pick someone smart enough to choose the president wisely. That probably worked when everyone knew everyone else around but these days most people can't even name their own congressman much less some unknown elector.

The swing state thing is because those are the states that aren't so entirely entrenched in a single ideology that they actually can be influenced to vote for a candidate while most states have a majority clinging to whichever side of the political fence they want to win regardless of who is running. If everyone actually did the hard work of weighing their decisions based on merit instead of choosing a side and then looking for reasons to validate that choice then all the states would be swing states.

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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-18-2016, 05:25 PM
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The current electoral system is the best compromise between the popular and state votes. It is meant to keep the dense population centers from completely overshadowing the voices of the less densely populated areas of the country and this election cycle has proven its effectiveness. Otherwise CA, TX, NY, FL and PA would pretty much decide the president for the other 45 states every single time simply because they hold the largest populations.

Right now the setup is one of winning the popular vote, but of each state at a time. Essentially the goal is to win the popular vote of more states than the opposition. Which in this case I think Reps won around 30 of the states. So in a sense, Reps won the majority of votes in the majority of states.

For those arguing for the total popular vote of the country, I agree, Dems won that one. But take away the biggest state for each party, CA and TX, and that story immediately changes. That's the reason why the current electoral system is effective. The heavily populated states don't completely silence the smaller ones (ie. CA completely cancelling out about 20 other states via population).

In a supporting argument for the current system think of it this way, like in some sports: Basketball and Baseball off the top of my head.
Each individual vote relates to 1 point scored.
Each state relates to 1 game played.

The goal for each of the sports is to win the best of 7 games.
Say it goes like this:
Game 1; Team 1 - 20pts vs Team 2 - 1pt
Game 2; Team 1 - 20pts vs Team 2 - 1pt
Game 3; Team 1 - 20pts vs Team 2 - 1pt
Game 4; Team 1 - 1pt vs Team 2 - 2pts
Game 5; Team 1 - 1pt vs Team 2 - 2pts
Game 6; Team 1 - 1pt vs Team 2 - 2pts
Game 7; Team 1 - 1pt vs Team 2 - 2pts

Total points scored; Team 1 - 64pts vs Team 2 - 11pts
Total games won; Team 1 - 3 games vs Team 2 - 4 games
Result; Team 2 wins despite the gigantic difference in points scored.

Now put these numbers into the scale of the popular vote vs states won and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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