BST Carbon Fiber Wheels - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-16-2018, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
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BST Carbon Fiber Wheels

I've been thinking about getting some BST Carbon Fiber rims but I have noticed the OE wheels for my bike are already very light. I would love to hear from someone that has installed Carbon wheels to hear first-hand whether there was a noticeable performance difference or not and if you felt they were worth it.

06 CBR 600 RR
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post #2 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 12:09 AM
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hahahahaha


yes, they are worth it. like a million times over worth it.



if you could only do ONE thing to your bike. ONE thing, carbon wheels. no question. it will be the single most night and day difference you've ever felt, bar none.
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post #3 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
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Excellent. I just put Ohlins valves in the front and will be putting an Ohlins on the rear in short order. I really like the looks of the CF wheels, would just about buy them for that reason alone, but given how light the OE wheels are I was really wondering if they would make much difference. Sounds like it's the icing on the cake - and the clincher :)

Edit: I also picked up Arata Titanium Exhaust for it and sprung for a Lithium battery while I was at it. So...weight should be dropping a ton in short order (which got me on the CF wheel thing too).

06 CBR 600 RR

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post #4 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 01:08 AM
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the stock wheels aren't light. hold them side by side with the bst and you'll understand.

it's hard to explain just how little they weigh.


but static weight savings doesn't hold a candle to wheels. like i said, if i could only do ONE thing to ANY bike, it would be carbon wheels.
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post #5 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 01:31 AM
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I have never run carbon fiber wheels, but from feedback of those who have, they really don't do much for "top end" speed, but do help a lot for quicker turn in. Also, I think the BST ones are old school, if i'm not mistaken there are better carbon wheels available now that are even lighter.
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post #6 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 02:53 AM
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Honda OE wheels are among the lightest cast wheels for any stock bike, actually. I know the 600RR were the lightest, probably until recently.
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post #7 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 03:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
the stock wheels aren't light. hold them side by side with the bst and you'll understand.

it's hard to explain just how little they weigh.


but static weight savings doesn't hold a candle to wheels. like i said, if i could only do ONE thing to ANY bike, it would be carbon wheels.
Thanks! I'm sure it's one of those things where you hold each one (OE and BST) and then go, "ahh..." and I bet when you ride it you also go "Ahhh...." Do yours look crappy inside or were the insides finished as well? I saw a review on the net (BST vs Robosomething) and they showed that the BST's are largely unfinished in the area that the tire covers. Also, did you spring for the ceramic bearings? I heard a LOT of great things about them as well.

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Originally Posted by Axel Nut View Post
I have never run carbon fiber wheels, but from feedback of those who have, they really don't do much for "top end" speed, but do help a lot for quicker turn in. Also, I think the BST ones are old school, if i'm not mistaken there are better carbon wheels available now that are even lighter.
Any idea on who the folks are that are also making them? Reputable ones I mean. With respect to quicker turn in, this is something my '06 could really use although I suspect the Ohlins rear and it's height adjustment will help with that.

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Honda OE wheels are among the lightest cast wheels for any stock bike, actually. I know the 600RR were the lightest, probably until recently.
I was really surprised how light they are. I was also thinking along the lines of lighter tires. I'm going to install my titanium exhaust and lithium battery in one shot so I get to feel the weight savings there in one massive dose

If memory serves the bike was 427 pounds when last weighed. I'm hoping the exhaust and the battery will get me under 400.

06 CBR 600 RR
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post #8 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 03:35 AM
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I had an 05 and 07 600RR at the same time shortly. It was amazing how much lighter and how much faster the 07 responded to steering inputs.
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post #9 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 11:01 AM
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Yes the bst isn't finished in the dished part. Why would it be?



I didn't do ceramic bearings. They're a ton of money and not really optimal for this application anyway. People go to great lengths to save grams, I'd rather stick to things that are more substantial.



My 600 when I had it was 382lbs full of fuel on the Canadian national sbk official scale. Not bad.


You probably won't notice your exhaust and battery much. It only represents a 2-3% reduction in static weight. Having a full tank of fuel vs an empty one is more almost triple that. Is it night and day for you how much fuel is in the bike? If you want the bike to feel light just change the geometry.
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post #10 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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I had an 05 and 07 600RR at the same time shortly. It was amazing how much lighter and how much faster the 07 responded to steering inputs.
I haven't ridden the 3rd gen bikes but I can attest to the fact that the '06 doesn't steer that quickly. Having said that, when the suspension is set up correctly it's amazing. But quickly changing your line mid-corner? No, it's not there in it's natural state.

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Yes the bst isn't finished in the dished part. Why would it be?

I didn't do ceramic bearings. They're a ton of money and not really optimal for this application anyway. People go to great lengths to save grams, I'd rather stick to things that are more substantial.

My 600 when I had it was 382lbs full of fuel on the Canadian national sbk official scale. Not bad.

You probably won't notice your exhaust and battery much. It only represents a 2-3% reduction in static weight. Having a full tank of fuel vs an empty one is more almost triple that. Is it night and day for you how much fuel is in the bike? If you want the bike to feel light just change the geometry.
At that price point, it would be nice to see the inside look as good as the outside The robotex (?) wheels are finished inside and out and they look a lot better. Mind you, once the tire is on it's all moot so it's not a decision-breaker. I suspect I'll be bucking up for the ceramic bearings at the same time. It seems to me to be a case of 'why save now' - hahahaha

382 - that's nice. I would love to see what the bike was like at that weight point. On my last bike, the stock exhaust was also very heavy and on one side. Just going to a nice stainless exhaust saved something around 12 pounds and it was readily noticeable, mainly because the majority of the weight was on one side of the bike. Like the fuel tank, the battery is also 'up high weight' although obviously not as high as the fuel tank. I do notice the fuel weight - in fact, I'm very sensitive so I notice almost anything. That makes improvements a lot of fun.

The geometry will be changed as soon as the rear Ohlins gets ordered (probably next month). I have tried moving the forks up in the clamps but never seem to get much out of it. Others have said the real answer is raising the rear and I believe that.

I'm very encouraged by all the posts. The Carbon Wheels will be last on the list but the exhaust/battery/radiator/new rear sets etc are all on their way and I can install them all in an afternoon so it should make for a great test ride! Once that stuff is out of the way the focus will then be Ohlins rear and Carbon Fiber wheels. And...at some point....an engine overhaul as it needs a little bit of tranny work.

Don't know if anyone here has experience with engine overhauls but I am debating (at times) about the merit of honing the cylinders, boring the cylinders or buying a new block. If honing/boring the existing block I would not be able to get the cylinders re-coated (up here in Canada). So that's something I wonder about and have not decided on yet.

06 CBR 600 RR

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post #11 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 04:08 PM
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Well your battery and exhaust will get you about a third of what an empty tank will. So keep that in mind.

Paying more to have the inside of the wheel finished is silly, the ONLY benefit at all is your ability to gloat about it to people who don't care. Though a lot of parts have this as the only benefit.

The 600 at 382 was awesome. Though the handling was only as good as it was due to drastically changing the trail numbers. It would have been pretty edgy in stock geometry. I had 25mm clamps on it.
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post #12 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 10:10 PM
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How do you change tires w/out marring the CF?

Special (plastic) irons?

PS....Seen rotobox(?) wheels, interesting concept but not easily available?

Last edited by tary preisser; 03-17-2018 at 10:15 PM.
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post #13 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 10:25 PM
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If you ever put a set of carbon wheels on your bike and see how big of a difference they make, you will be so spoiled that you will never owned a bike without carbon wheels.

If you need BST or Rotobox let me know, we can get you real good prices on them.
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post #14 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 10:39 PM
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if your tire changer doesn't damage the paint on your normal wheels, it won't damage the CF.

i use a no-mar tire changer for mine. but you can use standard tire changers.
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post #15 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 10:46 PM
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If you track your bike, do your research - people don't run carbon rear wheels here at Big Willow for a reason (the reason is heat)
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post #16 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-17-2018, 11:52 PM
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How hot do the wheels get?
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post #17 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 04:50 AM
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How hot do the wheels get?
I don't know. But hot enough to break apart when doing laps of Big Willow since turns 8 9 and 10 are so consecutive. Multiple breaks at that corner. Modern carbon threading may have eliminated that problem, but carbon wheels are so exotic that it's hard to ascertain where their limits are. Carbon wheels aren't used in racing, after all.
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post #18 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 11:26 AM
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They're not allowed mostly because they are difficult to ndt.


I can't imagine it's a heat issue. Wheels don't get hot lol
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They're not allowed mostly because they are difficult to ndt.


I can't imagine it's a heat issue. Wheels don't get hot lol
Actually wheels can get quite hot when running at a medium to fast pace. I'll have to get my heat gun out some time.

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post #20 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 03:09 PM
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Hot compared to your hand? Or hot compared to max allowable working temps for the material?
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post #21 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 05:49 PM
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Hot compared to my hand.

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post #22 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 05:58 PM
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yeah, so less than 100c, well less.

there's no way that a carbon wheel is going to fail due to temperature just from riding it. there's nothing that could make the wheel hotter than the tire, so i just don't see heat induced failures.
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post #23 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 06:52 PM
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I'll try to find the thread, this was some years ago, and I don't know what brand of CF maker - would not surprise me that manufacturing advancements have solved this or that whomever made those rims may not have known enough about what they were doing. It was a 1000cc bike (an RC-51 I think?) and the speed carried through those turns was enough to cause the rim to come apart. May have been a flaw in the weave rather than a temp thing. One thing I am finding while looking, is that you can't know if a CF wheel is damaged from visual inspection alone so they can't be trusted after crashing, which makes a lot of sense why they are not run in racing.

Edit: I found this, but the cause of failure seems to be seized rear brake (an abnormal state): http://ducatiforum.com/ducati-1299/3...l-failure.html

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here's the thing. carbon is a REMARKABLE material. if you did something that broke a CF wheel, it would have destroyed an aluminum wheel, or a mag wheel, or any wheel.

the downfall of CF is the inability to NDT (non-destructive test) it. because of this you'll find that CF wheels are WELL overbuilt. the BST has 32 layers of carbon in its lip. it could probably function just fine with half that, but it's over designed to make it overly strong and reliable in all conditions including abuse.


it is quite difficult to actually find cases of CF failures as they are not common, and one must also consider failures of other materials before judging.



BSTs are commonly used on drag bikes producing insane power numbers and demanding HUGE tasks of the wheels with a ton of success. if it's good for a 500hp drag bike, it's good for my 120hp rc51. i trust them explicitly.
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I suspect the issue is that Carbon Fiber and excessive heat don't get along. In the link posted it's about a Ducati where the rear brake stuck on. I've done this (on a limited basis) on my 600 and it's very interesting how hot everything gets. That heat does transfer to the rim and tire. In fact, the rim can get extremely hot, easily to the point where it will readily burn your hand.

We had a Cadillac CTS with an intermittent brake issue where the calipers would drag the rotors excessively. It was intermittent and very odd. It did it at inopportune times and any time it happened I pulled over quickly to let it cool off. You would not believe how hot the rim was due to heat transfer from the rotor. And it had drilled and slotted rotors. My guess is that with Carbon Fiber wheels they don't have anywhere near the durability (with respect to heat) as a conventional rim. Having said that, if a person is aware of that, then it's half the battle.

Speaking of which, I just watched the Qatar race and Alex Marquez had a rear brake issue (literally, tonight!) and he was going around the track with a red hot rotor. It was something to see. I was concerned his bike would catch fire. My guess is that if it had a CF rim that would have been it.

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post #26 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-19-2018, 12:39 AM
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Ok. So if you are worried about your rear brake lighting on fire and burning down the rear of your bike and causing the wheel to fail maybe carbon wheels aren't for you. But hell at that point maybe motorbikes aren't for you either.
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Love light wheels, know from push bike racing how effective a set of light wheels are.

If you went too light, you had big problems.

My 07+ Honda OE wheels have been knocked out of true (all 3 axii) with spirited open road riding.

No potholes, only botts dots, pavement breaks and bridge expansion joints...etc.

After racing push bikes, I'm really sensitive about wheel/tire issues and damage........

Still, if I won the lotto, BST would be a wonderful upgrade.

PS, talked to Doug Chandler about this and his comment was " really hard to change tires w/out marring the CF rims"
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I just wish there were more lightweight aftermarket alloy wheels available for motorcycles.

In the automotive domain, there are so many good lightweight alloy wheels available at a reasonable price. For example I can get a full set of Uber light enkei rpf1's (under 9 lbs a wheel at 14x7 size) for under $700.

Meanwhile ONE bst wheel would cost me close to $2000! I only paid $2200 for the entire bike lol.

I would love to have a light set of wheels on my 600rr, but I don't think I'll ever be able to justify the cost.

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post #29 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-19-2018, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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Ok. So if you are worried about your rear brake lighting on fire and burning down the rear of your bike and causing the wheel to fail maybe carbon wheels aren't for you. But hell at that point maybe motorbikes aren't for you either.
I'll take that under advisement and give it all the consideration it's due

06 CBR 600 RR
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I'll take that under advisement and give it all the consideration it's due
Consider this. You want to put carbon fiber wheels on an '06 CBR600RR? Why? Seriously why? First of all it's an 06, and a set of carbon fiber wheels are worth more than your bike. Are you some top level factory team racer trying to shave off .5 seconds of your lap time?

Come on man, be real for just a moment. If you want quicker turn in, just buy a good set of tires. The Dunlop Q3 and Q3+ are known for quick turn in. I might be wrong but in this thread I also think you were considering ceramic bearings... LOL stop it! You're killing me man. Ceramic bearings will shave maybe .1 seconds off your drag 1/4 mile... if even that.

Just get yourself a good set of tires (I'd recommend the Dunlop q3+ for your intentions), and put the rest of your disposable money into a savings account to buy a new bike.
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