2008 vs 2011 - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-13-2018, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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2008 vs 2011

I'm 3 seasons deep into riding my first motorcycle; 2012 CBR250r. I'm looking for a 600rr to add to the stock. For some reason I'm hung up on getting a 2008 as it has higher HP and torque than the later years. I'm a fan of the Graffiti color scheme as well. I currently see a 2011 Lela available in my local town.

I know I won't be able to tell the difference in power from 2008 to 2011 models being that I am used to the 250. But can you add upgrades to a 2011 to equal or exceed the 2008 models? The 2011 has a Juice Box on it already.

I'm unfamiliar to upgrades but have been reading and learning. What do you guys think?
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 03:29 AM
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Don't get too hung up on the horsepower figures.

Here is my story: Like you, I also started on a 25hp 250cc bike and after 2 years I finally bought a 600rr (2008 model) two months ago.

Here in Japan 90% of bikes you see are 125s or 250s so a 600cc is like a really really big bike. And we only get the power restricted versions (the 600rr makes 79hp). So I was thinking maybe it's not worth it because even if I get the big bike I still won't have a lot of power and stuff.

But when I first sat on it I almost crapped my pants. It felt like a freaking missile.

The point is that compared to a 250 every supersport will feel fast as hell and especially in your case you won't feel the difference unless you are racing against faster bikes.
But then you can also say the 2008 600rr is slower than the 1000rr and when you get the 1000rr people will tell you that your bike is slow compared to the BMW S1000R.

There will always be faster bikes out there unless you get a H2R. So for me the question is more: Do I need a faster bike for the street? And I would say no.

However the situation is very different if you go to the track I'd guess.

2009 CBR600RR
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 04:01 PM
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Slap a 08 ecu on a 2011 and you should be the same power, its just a noise emissions restriction.

'06 F4i- Yoshimura RS-3C, Racetech springs and valves, Ohlin's rear shock, steel brake lines, 520 conversion. 87k miles and counting.....
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 04:18 PM
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don't buy a bike based on specification. if the 2011 is in better condition with lower mileage, it's the better bike to purchase.


companies have tapped into the market's need for high spec ****, and as such litre bikes are now horrifically over priced and have specifications that are absolutely LOST on the people who are buying them.


i would much prefer a 140hp 1000cc bike with a fat torque curve and smooth power band, without electronics, for 10000 dollars than a 190hp bike with the peakiest power curve available, no torque to speak of, 5000 dollars worth of electronics that most people will never so much as activate, and such a terribly behaved street going engine that from 0-60 it would get wrecked by a 15 year old v-twin.


ultimately you should try to ride as many as you can before buying, don't even LOOK at the numbers, and buy the one that speaks to you the most. nobody gives a **** if your bike makes more power than something else.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 07:42 PM
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You'll also need to take into consideration of having an 11 years old bike or a 7 years old bike. Typically the 2007-2008 model bikes are rare to come by and if they do, they're either dropped, crashed, or has high mileage. If I were you, I would buy 2013 onward.
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Well I'm torn.

I have the opportunity to bargain for two different bikes with asking prices of 5.5k for both. I think I could bargain them down.

One is a 2008 graffiti edition with 2k miles an hour away and the other is 2011 Leyla edition with 10k miles in town.

The 2008 I worry about the bike having too low miles on it. The 2011 sounds nice but might not be able to be bargained down as much.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 12:14 AM
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What do you mean having too low miles? What's your rationale here.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 04:52 AM
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Too low miles could be interpreted as a track/drag only bike, or a bike that was crashed early on repaired and then garaged. My opinion here is to ride both bikes, w/understanding that the newer bike will have less "aged" parts like rubber and plastic components... hoses, cable lines, grommets, gaskets, etc... I don't know, pick the bike that rides the best. If the 2011 feels better, might save you the "extra" cost down the road because it is newer.
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 10:55 AM
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Its a 10 year old bike. Not a 30 year old bike

Unless it spent the last 10 years left out in the sun it's fine.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
Its a 10 year old bike. Not a 30 year old bike

Unless it spent the last 10 years left out in the sun it's fine.
Well, I have been dealing with the seller of the 2008 graffiti for about 2 months. The person is an idiot but has a nice bike to sell.

Anyway, I posted months ago on different forums asking about a 10 year old bike with low miles and a lot of people told me to watch out for anything rubber wearing out even if it was garage kept. I'm kind of new to bikes as I have only 3 seasons under my belt with my 250. So I don't really know if the people who replied were on point or worry worts.
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 01:57 PM
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A lot of people spew bullshit that was MAYBE applicable to bikes and cars in the 1970s


The rubber parts on a properly stored 10 year old low miles bike are going to be the same as the rubber parts on a well ridden high mileage 10 year old bike.


Rubber doesn't require use to stay fresh what kind of silliness is that.

Brake lines have a service life. So low miles or not you'll be changing them. Throttle body boots and grommets etc are going to be fine.




These bikes aren't fragile, they don't fall apart or rot from being ridden 200 miles per year.


Hell I bet that 2000 mile bike has probably had 7 or 8 oil changes.



There are so many pervasive myths that get perpetuated by people who just have to incite fear in people on the internet. It's really frustrating.
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 12:57 PM
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Brake lines have a service life.
And why is that? Because they are rubber.
To say that rubber doesn't get old and deterioate is absurd. Here in AZ, with over 4 months of over 100* days and a whooping 10% humidity, rubber does indeed wear out quick as can be. Just because it doesn't in your part of the world means nothing besides another small piece of info to build a general picture.
Yes, check old rubber things. Sometimes they will be worn out, sometimes they won't. No magic number for when things fail, just be smart and inspect.

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 01:28 PM
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It gets old whether it's used or not used that's what I'm saying


You clearly didn't read my post.


A low miles 2008 rubber parts will be no different than a higher miles 2008 bike (if anything they'll be better)

So complaining that miles are too low is retarded.

Last edited by wibbly; 10-22-2018 at 02:39 PM.
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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If I go to check a 10 year old bike out I was told to check the forks, and gas tank for rust.

The fork i was told to wipe the hydralics, then rock the bike up and down. Then check for any liquid on the fork where the hydralic went up and down.

The gas tank. Is it possible to rust with these bikes. Someone told me they are aluminum and cannot rust.

The brake line and tires I was told to replace due to being 10 years old. If I buy the 2008 I would have to drive it 1 hour home and need to make sure the bike is safe to get home at least.

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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 02:41 PM
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You should check for rust in all tanks regardless of year. 600rr are steel not aluminum tanks.


Always check forks, always check chains, always check tires.


These sorts of things are good ideas regardless of age or mileage.
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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What do you look for with the chain. Obvious visual issues? Rust?

The tank i was told to look inside with a flashlight and also start the bike cold.

Tires i would think would be a visual thing as well.
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 03:14 PM
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Just look for neglect. Tons of built up crud, tight links, rust etc. Sprockets too, excessive wear. Hooked teeth

Tires look at the date code and for signs of excessive wear, cracking etc. Tires are obvious. But check the date code. Old tires are no good.
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 02:45 AM
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Tires(rubber) have a shelf life, just like all the rubber parts on your bike, and even your HELMET! Sunlight, humidity, temperature, salt, all contribute to how fast or slow. Hell even condoms have a shelf life! But like wibbly said, motorcycles as of this date are resilient, but that doesn't mean it isn't something to consider. I'm speaking more towards the not-so-obvious, unlike chain and sprocket wear. But if we want to go there, chain and sprocket wear can be a GREAT indicator on how the bike was maintained!

Rusted chain is a negative, kinked links is another negative (meaning chain not maintained). Shark finned rear sprocket, not so much, but means the owner was aggressive in riding.

Furthermore, no matter what bike you get, if the chain looks good, check the master link! You want a riveted master link, and it should not bind when mashing it up and down. If you have a chain with the "clip" immediately figure in the cost of a new master link, and/or a new chain w/master link and sprockets!

Last edited by Axel Nut; 10-23-2018 at 02:51 AM.
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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What's the deal with a master link with a clip? Why is that a bad thing? And by mash it up and down, do you mean to make sure the chain maintains its movement where it should?

I want to check the chain on my 250 now.
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 09:06 PM
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Never use a clip style master link on your drive chain........

Used them on every bike I've ever owned, and dirt bikes for 50 yrs+

Had a clip style link fail on my CBR 600.

Never again...search "master link failed" OTF.
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentaro View Post
But then you can also say the 2008 600rr is slower than the 1000rr and when you get the 1000rr people will tell you that your bike is slow compared to the BMW S1000R.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
don't buy a bike based on specification. ...i would much prefer a 140hp 1000cc bike with a fat torque curve and smooth power band, without electronics, for 10000 dollars than a 190hp bike with the peakiest power curve available, no torque to speak of, 5000 dollars worth of electronics that most people will never so much as activate
+1 Id put my 2011 1000RR with no electronics and 160 WHP up against any S1000RR, any track even drag strip (assuming same rider on both bikes)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrippplePPP View Post
I'm 3 seasons deep into riding my first motorcycle; 2012 CBR250r. I'm looking for a 600rr to add to the stock. For some reason I'm hung up on getting a 2008 as it has higher HP and torque than the later years.

I know I won't be able to tell the difference in power from 2008 to 2011 models being that I am used to the 250. But can you add upgrades to a 2011 to equal or exceed the 2008 models? The 2011 has a Juice Box on it already.
The nice thing about the 2007 and 2008 CBR600RR they have NOT had their top end power slightly clipped by ECU restrictions. The 2009+ models need Zbomb ($57) or ECU flash ($190) to fix that issue (ignition timing retard). Either way it is a cheap fix for the 09+ models though and ECU flash has other benefits. Grab either 600RR I think you will love it!

Last edited by SaratogaLED; 10-23-2018 at 09:50 PM.
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-24-2018, 03:07 PM
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2009+ has a "noise reduction" setup in ECU to meet EU noise limits after 2008....

Dyno Jet PC5 is a good pkg for 2009+ with a "throttle clamp" that bypasses restriction in 09+ ECU.

Works very good on my 09.
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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-27-2018, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for replies guys.

Turns out I found another Graffiti with 10K miles on it for sale for cheap. So I have 2 graffiti's with less than 10K and one Leyla with about 10K in an hour drive to choose from. The most recent one was dropped though. I can check out the Graffiti with 2K and the Leyla with 10K this upcoming weekend. I'll let you know what I buy or pass by. Thanks for replies. Feel free to keep them coming. I appreciate.
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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 05:55 PM
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+1 Id put my 2011 1000RR with no electronics and 160 WHP up against any S1000RR, any track even drag strip (assuming same rider on both bikes)
Ok I have to ask how your comfortable with that setup. Same rider, one bike has 20hp more then the other and you think the lower HP bike will win in a race where only the top end power really matters?

'06 F4i- Yoshimura RS-3C, Racetech springs and valves, Ohlin's rear shock, steel brake lines, 520 conversion. 87k miles and counting.....
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'15 1000RR- weekend toy
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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 06:25 PM
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Ok I have to ask how your comfortable with that setup. Same rider, one bike has 20hp more then the other and you think the lower HP bike will win in a race where only the top end power really matters?
area under the curve



i'm not exactly going to agree with the OP here, but having a lot of area under the curve means you will get more done sooner. big peaky engines aren't great for anything but peaky riding.
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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 02:09 PM
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Yeah but a drag race is nothing but peak power after 1st gear. On a turning track I totally get it. Look at what Rae did in superbike before he went Kawi.

'06 F4i- Yoshimura RS-3C, Racetech springs and valves, Ohlin's rear shock, steel brake lines, 520 conversion. 87k miles and counting.....
'08 600RR- Stripped trackbike. CRG shorty brake lever, goodridge front brake lines
'15 1000RR- weekend toy
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 02:49 PM
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In a drag race the most powerful bikes are physics limited in acceleration until well over 100mph.

Wheelie control is cutting power right through 3rd. So having all that horsepower doesn't make the bike faster
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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 07:03 PM
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Ok I have to ask how your comfortable with that setup. Same rider, one bike has 20hp more then the other and you think the lower HP bike will win in a race where only the top end power really matters?
Yes power under the curve, there is not as much difference in power as the peak HP numbers imply as @wibbly pointed out but on top of that I have my bike down to 359 lbs and minue 15 lbs rotating. My bike is NOT set up for drag racing at all, but it launches well for a shortened wheelbase (55") so I believe I could still take a stock S1000RR due to power/weight ratio. I am no pro but I did about 1000 practice launches and 100 passes on the strip this year I managed to get my bike down to 9.995 (9.7 standard atmosphere) with no burnout, no strap, 55" wheelbase and stock ride height. From what I can tell, I doubt I could get a stock S1000RR to crack 9.7 seconds without a strap but I would try like hell!

wibbly is right again, extra power does the bike no good on a stock wheelbase in a drag race. I have to carefully manage the wheelie with the throttle all through 1st and 2nd gear. 3rd 4th and 5th you can go WOT and instant shift with no worries.

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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 07:20 PM
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I know thats not the spirit of @Bentaro original statement (people will say the 600RR is slow compared to 1000RR and people will say the 1000RR is slow compared to the S1000RR). Im just pointing out that the 1000RR can easily be made to beat a stock S1000RR even on the drag strip and whoop a stock S1000RR on any circuit track. I only spent 9K for the bike with mods so when you look at it from the perspective...

Beware the peak HP battle that is going on and maybe beware the reliability and serviceability of BMW. I quickly regretted it when I strayed from Honda. Word on the street is that the 1000RR is lagging the other liter bikes. Maybe that is because the 2017 US ECU is restricted to 73% throttle but with a few nice mods (ECU flash, exhaust, BST, lithium, 520 etc) the 1000RR can be made one of the quickest production bikes ever made, along with being cheap and reliable, that is kind of an engineering miracle.

Also worth mentioning the H2R is not street legal, cost $50000, 57.3" wheelbase and weighs 475 LBS wet. H2 is street legal, cost $25000, but 525 lbs wet. Maybe Im wrong but it sounds like a one trick pony and not really a success in terms of engineering outcomes. I do think the H2 can be converted to a mean drag bike though. Ricky Gadson got his to crack 8 seconds I believe, 460 lbs.

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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrippplePPP View Post
Thanks for replies guys.

Turns out I found another Graffiti with 10K miles on it for sale for cheap. So I have 2 graffiti's with less than 10K and one Leyla with about 10K in an hour drive to choose from. The most recent one was dropped though. I can check out the Graffiti with 2K and the Leyla with 10K this upcoming weekend. I'll let you know what I buy or pass by. Thanks for replies. Feel free to keep them coming. I appreciate.
Did you decide on one?
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