Moving on...to a different motorcycle - 600RR.net
Trackdays Privateers and Professionals
Sponsored by: MOTO-D Racing

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
Pocketbike Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 482
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Moving on...to a different motorcycle

Well it was a hell of a season, did something like 20+ track days, didn't get any injuries, only put the bike down a couple of times, nothing other than cosmetic damage, so all and all it was a great season.

However, with the season over i have decided to move on in regards to motorcycles, I am going to be passing the RR along to anyone who wants a great bike to get on the track with...

It has been a great bike and I learned the track on it but now its time to step up my game, and after running into last weekends problem looking for a simple part for over an hour. I have decided to go to Yamaha or Suzuki. NOT because I feel that they are SO much better but the fact that Honda's are a rare bread around the track and it seems like no one has anything for them unless you bring it with you (parts). If I upgraded the suspension, alone this would let me hang with any other bike out there but I think its time in my development to move to something that is Purpose built.

With that said here are my choices:

07-09 YZF-R6
07/08 Suzuki 750

Thoughts???

My main choice is the R6, just got to wait for the right one to come along that I can afford!


Anyway here is a pic of my bike, that will be for sale shortly!



>2005 CBR 600rr - Track prep
Lots o shite
>Virginia's Sport Bike Community <---click here

Burnall4 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 08:46 PM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
Gville George's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 639
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnall4 View Post
I think its time in my development to move to something that is Purpose built.

With that said here are my choices:

07-09 YZF-R6
07/08 Suzuki 750
are 600rr's not very track orientated?

I always thought that honda was supposed to be one of the better handling bikes on the track, but I have heard alot of people saying other wise lately.

I love my RR and i couldn't imgine being able to push any of the other bikes i have ridden as hard (granted i never tried cause they weren't mine).

oh, and as far as thoughts on R6 vs. GSX-R 750, i have heard very good things about both. (I haven't ridden a newer r6 though, just the GSX-R), if you are not racing and can find one for a good price i would go with the 750, the extra grunt is always nice. but if your racing it will just put you up against people that also have the extra HP so it won't be an advantage (maybe a disadvantage while you are still learning to put it to use)


Last edited by Gville George; 10-27-2009 at 08:52 PM.
Gville George is offline  
post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 09:00 PM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
ccs907's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central WI
Posts: 1,419
Thanks: 2
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gville George View Post
are 600rr's not very track orientated?

I always thought that honda was supposed to be one of the better handling bikes on the track, but I have heard alot of people saying other wise lately.

I love my RR and i couldn't imgine being able to push any of the other bikes i have ridden as hard (granted i never tried cause they weren't mine).

oh, and as far as thoughts on R6 vs. GSX-R 750, i have heard very good things about both. (I haven't ridden a newer r6 though, just the GSX-R), if you are not racing and can find one for a good price i would go with the 750, the extra grunt is always nice. but if your racing it will just put you up against people that also have the extra HP so it won't be an advantage (maybe a disadvantage while you are still learning to put it to use)
They are, it's just that Suzuki sells more bikes than honda does, and when it comes to trackdays, the sales filter over. there's a lot that goes into it, but suzuki's are at the tracks more than hondas. that's just how it is.

ccs907
ccs907 is offline  
 
post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
Pocketbike Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 482
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Yeah, I am not going to race. I will get my license so if I ever get a wild hair, and I might do a race or two but not a serious thing.

As for the handling, as put on a different site I am on, "the RR is like a butter knife on the track where the r6 is like a scalpel" and its the truth, now compound that even further when you put cartridges in and an after market shock. But others will say its 95% rider 5% bike which I agree with, however at the same time, i am at the edge of that 5%.


>2005 CBR 600rr - Track prep
Lots o shite
>Virginia's Sport Bike Community <---click here

Burnall4 is offline  
post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 09:38 PM
Resident Arai Freak
 
orientexpress11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Flo Rida
Posts: 2,808
Thanks: 20
Thanked 30 Times in 17 Posts
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnall4 View Post
Yeah, I am not going to race. I will get my license so if I ever get a wild hair, and I might do a race or two but not a serious thing.

As for the handling, as put on a different site I am on, "the RR is like a butter knife on the track where the r6 is like a scalpel" and its the truth, now compound that even further when you put cartridges in and an after market shock. But others will say its 95% rider 5% bike which I agree with, however at the same time, i am at the edge of that 5%.
The R6 is a sharp handling bike but it forces you to ride at your 100% best or the lap times will not be there. The motor is high strung and you constantly have to be on the pipe or you'll lose drive out of corners and other bikes will pass you.

To be honest you aren't at the edge of the 5% of any modern sportbike unless you're on top of the podium in a national series. I know a few AMA riders and they'll tell you that there are maybe 40 or 50 people in the whole world that can ride a sportbike to it's limit. Most likely, you aren't one of them.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

- JFK
orientexpress11 is offline  
post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
Pocketbike Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 482
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by orientexpress11 View Post
The R6 is a sharp handling bike but it forces you to ride at your 100% best or the lap times will not be there. The motor is high strung and you constantly have to be on the pipe or you'll lose drive out of corners and other bikes will pass you.

To be honest you aren't at the edge of the 5% of any modern sportbike unless you're on top of the podium in a national series. I know a few AMA riders and they'll tell you that there are maybe 40 or 50 people in the whole world that can ride a sportbike to it's limit. Most likely, you aren't one of them.

so true, like i said in my first post, my biggest beef is the lack of support for hondas around the track, and the general cost for parts are far higher than other bikes (gixxer/r6)


>2005 CBR 600rr - Track prep
Lots o shite
>Virginia's Sport Bike Community <---click here

Burnall4 is offline  
post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 11:00 PM
World Superbike Racer
 
Kurosaki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: socal
Posts: 1,917
Thanks: 4
Thanked 69 Times in 54 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Have you considered an 07-09 CBR?

Little different from the bike you're on now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XBrY9Xukrc


**
^^CBR600RR Trackday Videos - Updated 4-5-11^^**

2011 Trackday Counter: 2
Next Trackday: ?????

Kurosaki is offline  
post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 11:00 PM
Resident Arai Freak
 
orientexpress11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Flo Rida
Posts: 2,808
Thanks: 20
Thanked 30 Times in 17 Posts
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnall4 View Post
so true, like i said in my first post, my biggest beef is the lack of support for hondas around the track, and the general cost for parts are far higher than other bikes (gixxer/r6)
Oh definitely, the WERA board over the winter is great for finding parts deals for Zuks and Yamahas but not so much for the Hondas.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

- JFK
orientexpress11 is offline  
post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 11:09 PM
Pocketbike Racer
 
sk8rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 325
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
dude im in the same boat as you looking at getting an r6 due to the lack of support for hondas
sk8rat is offline  
post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
Pocketbike Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 482
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
i have thought about an 07-09 with suspension upgrades, but then I am back to the same thing, no support.

I got a vortex fairing stay at my last track day, brand new, for 40 bucks because he had it in the parts trailer for the whole year and couldn't sell it, said it was because "no one has a honda" and he wasn't trying to be funny! There are plenty of them out there, hondas, at the track but when it comes to parts and peoples general knowledge it seems people know more about the yammi and suzuki's.


>2005 CBR 600rr - Track prep
Lots o shite
>Virginia's Sport Bike Community <---click here

Burnall4 is offline  
post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 11:35 PM
World Superbike Racer
 
Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,784
Thanks: 16
Thanked 46 Times in 39 Posts
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Gixxers= stunters/posers= so many parts for sale

Yamaha=Race wannabes crashing = extra parts for sale

Honda=Posers who baby their bike= High resale value on parts/bike <---so stupid

We will miss you Chenhan a.k.a Phatstud
Nemesis is offline  
post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 02:55 AM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
rocketjockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 537
Thanks: 4
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 6 reviews
Get a Buell, after all they did win the AMA Daytona Sportbike series.
:)

Word...

Rich DeRousse
http://www.rocketjockeyracing.com
"If you can't be fast, be flashy!"
'76 CB750 SOHC (Cafe Racer)
'04 PocketBike
'07 Honda CBR600RR
'10 BMW S1000RR (Race-only)
rocketjockey is offline  
post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 04:51 AM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
Gville George's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 639
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Feedback Score: 7 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketjockey View Post
Get a Buell, after all they did win the AMA Daytona Sportbike series.
:)

Word...

Its hard to detect sarcasm in text, but in case you were serious.

you want to talk about lack of support watch this...

http://www.buell.com/en_us/company/

Gville George is offline  
post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 05:09 AM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
rocketjockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 537
Thanks: 4
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 6 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gville George View Post
Its hard to detect sarcasm in text, but in case you were serious.

you want to talk about lack of support watch this...

http://www.buell.com/en_us/company/
Partial sarcasm and partial seriousness.
Yes, HD has decided not to carry Mr. Buell's line anymore but they will honor all warranties and there is still a surplus of parts available for the entire lineup. It's really not all that much different than Honda revamping a model line every 4 years. Honda doesn't make the 600F series anymore, right?

The difference is the engine is made by Rotax who is still in business. So I don't think lack of support will be an issue over the next 4yrs. After that, you'll probably run into the same issues as any other model that gets revamped. I understand that the Buells were not produced in the same mass quantities as the big four Japanese.

Even still I'd be willing to bet you get better service with the Buell than from any other "non-japanese" bike (AKA Ducati, Aprilia, and KTM)

I'm actually considering an 1125R myself at the moment.
: )

Word...

Rich DeRousse
http://www.rocketjockeyracing.com
"If you can't be fast, be flashy!"
'76 CB750 SOHC (Cafe Racer)
'04 PocketBike
'07 Honda CBR600RR
'10 BMW S1000RR (Race-only)
rocketjockey is offline  
post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 05:46 AM
Moto GP Racer
 
SLAPS808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Diego County, SoCal
Posts: 28,565
Thanks: 179
Thanked 365 Times in 284 Posts
Feedback Score: 56 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by orientexpress11 View Post
Oh definitely, the WERA board over the winter is great for finding parts deals for Zuks and Yamahas but not so much for the Hondas.


this is very true. i just surfed the classified section on wera this morning.
i only saw 2 handfuls of RR parts compared to a bucket full for the r6/gixxers.






Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbylitenin View Post
I wanna learn from the master king dingaling
SLAPS808 is offline  
post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 05:47 AM
Moto GP Racer
 
SLAPS808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Diego County, SoCal
Posts: 28,565
Thanks: 179
Thanked 365 Times in 284 Posts
Feedback Score: 56 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis View Post
Gixxers= stunters/posers= so many parts for sale

Yamaha=Race wannabes crashing = extra parts for sale

Honda=Posers who baby their bike= High resale value on parts/bike <---so stupid
wow!






Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbylitenin View Post
I wanna learn from the master king dingaling
SLAPS808 is offline  
post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 05:55 AM
*BOTM Feb '11, Mar '12*
 
sincalirider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Visalia, Ca
Posts: 23,598
Thanks: 1,002
Thanked 1,191 Times in 901 Posts
Feedback Score: 27 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAPS808 View Post
wow!
Haha, he hasn't been to a dot net TD

sincalirider is offline  
post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 06:04 AM
Moto GP Racer
 
SLAPS808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Diego County, SoCal
Posts: 28,565
Thanks: 179
Thanked 365 Times in 284 Posts
Feedback Score: 56 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by sincalirider View Post
Haha, he hasn't been to a dot net TD
and i dont think he will either.






Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbylitenin View Post
I wanna learn from the master king dingaling
SLAPS808 is offline  
post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 10:44 AM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
l0weed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Alb.,NM
Posts: 922
Thanks: 5
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Post up as you go mate. It'll make for interesting reads how your personal experiences react to all the hype.

It's been a couple years since I rode anything newer, I can say though that I really didn't care for the "feel" or the seating arrangment on the other bikes. All the guys I know around here favor suzy's because parts are easily available and they are easier to wrench. I usually counter with a simple 'You don't have to wrench on hondas due to build quality'. Not been proven wrong yet...but the honda's are a bit more complicated. ;-)

~Loyd

Power corrupts.
Knowledge is power.
Study hard, be evil.

self-wife= bikes in near future again.
l0weed is offline  
post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-28-2009, 12:11 PM
World Superbike Racer
 
Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,784
Thanks: 16
Thanked 46 Times in 39 Posts
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAPS808 View Post
and i dont think he will either.
If it's with Crashcycle, very doubtful.

We will miss you Chenhan a.k.a Phatstud
Nemesis is offline  
post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 11:23 AM
Knee Dragger
 
HSV_RedRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 153
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Let the man get what he wants. While he's wrenching, we'll be out riding.

13 Shadow Phantom
08 CBR600RR - Red/Black (Sold)
96 CBR600F3 Smokin Joes Racing
07 CRF250X
HSV_RedRider is offline  
post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 11:44 AM
Pocketbike Racer
 
aerialspider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hopkins, MN
Posts: 487
Thanks: 4
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Feedback Score: 12 reviews
Burnall, B-E-A-utiful bike bro! I love an RR is any color green.

I understand what you are saying about the lack of support. But, if you can afford 20+ track days in a single year, can't you basically afford to own a spare track bike? I'm not saying this is a reasonable solution to your problem, but a valid point nonetheless. You could get a non-titled [cheap] 600rr from a salvage company. That's what I did: I have two 2005 600rrs--one for the track and one for the street. If I had a tow vehicle that was a little bigger (I have a 2.0L CRV), I would bring them both to every track day.


Last edited by aerialspider; 10-29-2009 at 11:46 AM. Reason: grammar
aerialspider is offline  
post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 11:59 AM
World Superbike Racer
 
Nemesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,784
Thanks: 16
Thanked 46 Times in 39 Posts
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
^^^
But what would that resolve? I think he's main issue was the fact that it's so hard to find extra parts for his track bike. And taking parts from his street bike would sort of defeat the purpose because he'll still have to find parts for his street bike.

We will miss you Chenhan a.k.a Phatstud
Nemesis is offline  
post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 12:02 PM
Pocketbike Racer
 
aerialspider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hopkins, MN
Posts: 487
Thanks: 4
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Feedback Score: 12 reviews
Good point. I guess I was focusing on finding parts at the track when you go down. It would be nice to hop on Craigslist and find tons of parts for Hondas. In Minneapolis, there are a lot of Hondas, so I don't feel the pinch like others do.

The relative rarity of Hondas is partially what attracted me to the 600rr. But for a track bike that is going to need parts on a somewhat regular basis, I can see how it would make a lot of sense to get something more common.

aerialspider is offline  
post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 01:00 PM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
ccs907's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central WI
Posts: 1,419
Thanks: 2
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
here's a thought...

buy spares.

ccs907
ccs907 is offline  
post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-29-2009, 01:36 PM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
Booty Freak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 624
Images: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
I thought about giving the 2009 R6 a shot due to all the reviews
about it being a great track bike. But when it came down to it I
could not turn my back on the 2007 or 2008 CBR600RR. The
Honda is a great bike & it's nice being at the track with a bike
that is not a R6 or Gixxer. Plus you are not gonna find a Yamaha or
Suzuki with over 200,000 miles on it like the Honda's. With all this
being said the bike is only as fast as it's rider. Last year Josh Hayes
was smoking on a Honda & this year he is smoking on a Yamaha.




2007 Red & Black CBR600RR

Arrow Carby Race Exhaust
Tapeworks Silver Wing Shadows
Lockhart Phillips Flush Mount Blinkers
Tkisbmf Fender Eliminator
Clear DB Puig Windscreen
Vortex Rearsets - Silver


Booty Freak is offline  
post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
Pocketbike Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 482
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Yeah I hear you guys....I am looking at the 07-08 RRs, if I can find a deal on one I will pick it up.

And I do have a parts bike for spares, but who thinks to bring a bolt that would never really have a chance of needing replaced, to the track ?!?!


>2005 CBR 600rr - Track prep
Lots o shite
>Virginia's Sport Bike Community <---click here

Burnall4 is offline  
post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 12:43 PM
fall down 7times get up 8
 
redridinghood11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: westland, usa
Posts: 1,479
Thanks: 52
Thanked 62 Times in 59 Posts
Feedback Score: 30 reviews
Lightbulb

best chasis in the class is the yamaha
the 750 is a really good package & has motor easily over the 600 class, but then you're on zuki chasis. zuki is awesome for longer distance riding. the front end doesn't give me the confidence like the cbrs or yamahas. one of my friends made the switch from zuki to yammie & immediately went faster than he'd ever ridden anything on his home track. front end feel is really critical when trying to ride a bike @ pace. he also said he felt the yammie was really easy to ride fast. my buddy is a very skilled rider that has been racing for close to 5 yrs. so seeing an improvement of over 1 sec or more w/in a few laps of riding; really speaks volumes on how great the yamaha is as a whole package

i picked up a salvaged 07 rr in pretty decent condition for 3250$ the beginning of 2008. this was purchased as a streetbike w/intentions of doing some tracktime w/it as well. now it's 90% set up for track only

i've ridden all the bikes you're considering & if i were to choose a 'track only' weapon of choice; it'd either be the yamaha or the 07+ cbr
either bike tuned correctly will be very fast. the yamaha seems to have more motor on the extreme top end. meaning, you'll need to keep the engine really revving to ride the bike properly.

you'll learn more about how to ride properly on the smaller cc size
maybe spend another couple of seasons on a 600 then graduate to the 750
w/the abundance of peeps riding suzuki it's much easier to find parts whenever needed & typically cost the least comparing to other brands

over the off season is a great time to be acquiring a trackbike & have seen fully set up r6 going for just over or under 4k


it'd be ideal if you could ride these machines yourself to get a feel for how each one fits you. the brands are all so close in performance & function it comes down to which feels the best for you

good luck w/your hunt & post up whatever bike you end up with


race/ride support 2004 & beyond

"fall down seven times, get up eight"



" can't stop stupid sir, i can only slow it down....."


redridinghood11 is offline  
post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 01:16 PM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
ccs907's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Central WI
Posts: 1,419
Thanks: 2
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnall4 View Post
And I do have a parts bike for spares, but who thinks to bring a bolt that would never really have a chance of needing replaced, to the track ?!?!
that can be said about anything...

ccs907
ccs907 is offline  
post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-30-2009, 06:48 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
DaMartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SAN DIEGO, CALI
Posts: 4,500
Images: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
08-09 gix 600... good overall track bike... just need a little time to get used to it if you're coming from a honda...
DaMartian is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 600RR.net forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome