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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 02:53 AM Thread Starter
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After Track Day Analysis

After my trackday, this is what I discovered:

= Left Side =







= Right Side =




Has this happened to anyone? I think my form is bad that's why I scraped the frame slider. I was told to shave the slider a bit shorter to avoid my front wheel from being lifted.

I was also advised to change out my PP2CT's to PP Race because it will slip when I least expected it. Has the PP2CT ever slipped out on anyone before? Of course PP Race is the way to go, but not very good on commuting. I need the best of both worlds.

From my observation, if I can lean that low to scrape my frame slider and my tires haven't slipped. I can trust that it won't, unless it really worn out.

Any input?
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 10:43 AM
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Those are long sliders, but I haven't ever scrapped mine. Also, I have an 08, so they may mount higher on my bike than yours.

As for the PP2 vs. the Race: How fast are you? The PR Race tires need to be hot to acheive good grip, and if your pace isn't fast (upper advanced, lower intermiedate at least), then you won't acheive good grip with them. You will also want to run warmers with them, so factor that into the mix. They are great tires, but you have to need them, or they will not perform better than the PP2s.

I run PR Races on the track and street, but only because I don't have 2 sets of wheels. They wear fast as hell with street riding, and you can't be aggressive on the street with them, because they are almost certainly colder than operating temperature at anything close to legal speeds and cautious braking levels.

I would stick with the PP2s until such time as you get moved up, or if you have dedicated track wheels.



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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 12:02 PM
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Anytime you use big lean angles on your bike you will scrape. The super fast guys will burn holes through the lowers all the time, it is just a Honda design flaw. In your case the only way we can tell if your form is good is to see pictures.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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It's bad that's why I don't want to post it. I need to stick my and knee more so the frame slider would not scrape.

I guess I'm a solid B rider, not quite A rider if I keep on getting stuffed on straightaway.

Thanks powermoose for the insight on the 2 tires. I think I'll stick to PP2CT for now. I don't have tire warmers and because I ride the street every day.

I should shave the shogun sliders down just a bit to be safe.
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 04:49 PM
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We want pics, We want pics, We want pics, We want pics, . . .. for helpful criticiszm of course ;o)

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Haha. It looks like your avatar.







The last one looks like the middle one but I'll upload it anyway. Go ahead and school me, I'm here to learn.
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 08:41 PM
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It does seem like you're using excessive lean angle for your speed. Lower your upper body to the inside and down, remember to relax those arms. You don't have to hang off like Spies but make sure you get the upper body and head down and away.

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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 08:42 PM
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I'd never had that problem until I installed my Sato rearset.
Set high and to the back. I grinded off the fornt lower left side, Just testing the rearset location.
When I had the stocker I would grind knee, peg, then it would fold up.
I haven't touch the Sato to the pavement yet.
I like to go in deep.

I would recommend you get woodcraft race slider.




Last edited by LonelyRR; 11-05-2009 at 08:49 PM.
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 08:44 PM
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one butt cheak righ off the seat, head tucked behind the inside mirror.. then you should be pretty good

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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 08:53 PM
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You just need to keep the bike more upright in a corner.
If you need to tighten up your line, You can lower your lean angle.
I go in fast and dive in deep if needed.


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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 09:03 PM
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hmmmm, is that track thunderhill?






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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orientexpress11 View Post
It does seem like you're using excessive lean angle for your speed. Lower your upper body to the inside and down, remember to relax those arms. You don't have to hang off like Spies but make sure you get the upper body and head down and away.
Excessive lean angle? That's what Michelin is for right? 52 Degree Lean Angle. Did I over do it? But yeah...I don't want a hole in my lower cowl. I'll chill out with the leaning.

Yup. It's at Thunderhill.

Thanks for all the input. I was in C group with a bunch of slow people so that may explains why I don't have the correct form because every corner I ran into has someone. I'll make sure to look like a pro next time with your inputs in mind.
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamzboy View Post
Excessive lean angle? That's what Michelin is for right? 52 Degree Lean Angle. Did I over do it? But yeah...I don't want a hole in my lower cowl. I'll chill out with the leaning.
There is a difference between using 52 degrees of lean going 70mph and 110mph through the same corner. Bad body position will only allow you to go 70mph, good body position will let you use the most out of the tire.

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-06-2009, 01:45 PM
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i ve scraped my lowers on the left side before and i believe i was on 2ct also and didnt have any problems at all, but if you ride track often and getting faster i would recommend getting race tires just also for sake of mind

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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-17-2009, 06:18 PM
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Cool pics.
2CT have a fairly sharp profile and are road orientated tyre.
I would advice you to change your riding style as already mentioned before anything else. Learn to lean into the corner better with your body before pushing the bike into it's side.
From the pics, you look like your sitting square on the bike.
Chest should be flat on tank.
Head where your mirrors should be.
Spine off centre of the bike.
1 bum cheek off the bike.

Next thing to dig in is your footpeg and that's another issue.

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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-17-2009, 10:49 PM
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like mentioned, as your body position gets better you bike will have less lean angle, which means you will be going faster.

Work on getting lower, get into the bike.


"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't know that higher lean angle means faster through turn. I always thought the lower your lean angle the faster it is.

From seeing some of you guy's signature, I think I know what needs to be done. Pulling my chest closer to the tank, head stick out on the side mirror, and butt cheek off the seat.

Got it!
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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...also, when you guys hang off the seat through a left turn, does it make your right foot slightly losing balance? I'm afraid that when I hang off the bike too much, I loose my grip on my right foot and won't be able to bring the bike up straight. This can happen on the right turn as well. I'm just using the left turn as an example.
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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamzboy View Post
I didn't know that higher lean angle means faster through turn. I always thought the lower your lean angle the faster it is.
Well when you say higher, you mean more upright or higher % of lean angle?

The faster you go the more lean angle is required to navigate a corner. But the goal is to have as little lean as possible to maximize grip. You do this is proper body position.

So, you get your body position correct, which will decrease your lean angle, then you are able to increase your speed which will mean your lean angle will come back, but now you are going say 10% faster than before.

Make sense?

Quote:
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From seeing some of you guy's signature, I think I know what needs to be done. Pulling my chest closer to the tank, head stick out on the side mirror, and butt cheek off the seat.
EXACTLY! You want to look like you are hiding behind the bike. (next to it so a person on the other side couldn't see you.

When in a corner, you outside forearm and chest should be resting on the gas tank. Putting your armpit directly over the gas cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamzboy View Post
...also, when you guys hang off the seat through a left turn, does it make your right foot slightly losing balance? I'm afraid that when I hang off the bike too much, I loose my grip on my right foot and won't be able to bring the bike up straight. This can happen on the right turn as well. I'm just using the left turn as an example.
Sometimes yea it will. But with you being in good position all of your weight (and strength) is on your inside foot (this example being your left foot) so you never actually lose control. You actually are steering with the throttle.

The body and throttle are always in a constant battle for control. You leaning say to the left is you PULLING the bike to the left (through the corner) in turn as you pick up the throttle the gyroscopic effect of the wheels will begin to stand the bike up and push it right. You continue to pull it to the left meaning you can continue to pick up more throttle.

You do this battle as much and as long as you can, until you run out of track and by this time you should be a good ways into the next straightaway.

Hope that all helped and made sense!


"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009, 06:44 AM
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Here, I tried to find a picture that had us at a similar angle so you could relate to the comparison.






"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009, 06:46 AM
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Notice how my arms are about 90*, this keeps me neutral so I am not forcing input into the bars.

I have NO WEIGHT on my ass, it's all on my left foot.

Chest and outside arm are completely on the gas tank.

Now, ideally my head should have been even lower and further inside. I'll have to find a better pic, but might not be at the same angle...


"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009, 10:09 AM
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those are some sick lean angles you're doing there, i never scraped my sliders or my lowers yet & i don't plan to.


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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009, 01:03 PM
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My friend runs 1:01's at Talladega and lowe 20's at jennings drug is no cut frame sliders at Talladega a while ago.. They don't stick out farther then any normal frame slider for the 600's either....we were both astonished...

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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009, 02:02 PM
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also the turn looks cambered so it makes sense that you're able to lean more and scrape in that turn
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 03:45 PM
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just get smaller pucks and you're good.
nice form by the way...
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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 04:20 PM
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Suspension and geometry set-up can have a lot to do with your ground clearance too. Have you lowered the front or rear or both? Soft springs or too much sag will also limit your clearance. And be careful with long frame sliders. They can act as a lever if you touch down too hard and lift your tires off the ground. Just my $0.02.

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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 01-17-2010, 11:31 PM
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Follow the bike, don't fight to stay upright. Here is me at the same turn at Thunderhill from your first picture.

http://gotbluemilk.com/web090913/h/i...es/image3.html

BTW, how do you get the gotbluemilk.com pictures to display in the thread? I can only get them to link externally. I am clearly lame.

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Last edited by deddie; 01-17-2010 at 11:39 PM.
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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 01-18-2010, 05:39 AM
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+1 on your position, but I think the reason you're dragging so many hard parts is because your suspension is too soft and when you crank it over with a lil speed the suspension compresses a lot under the g force and loads and makes your bike essentially act like a lowered bike, dragging hard parts.
Proper springs for your weight and better form will eliminate this problem.
Based on how much you're dragging I'll go out on a limb and say, ever if you fix your form you going fast will only compress the already too soft suspension more and you'll soon be dragging hard parts if not wrecking.

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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 01-18-2010, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deddie View Post
Follow the bike, don't fight to stay upright. Here is me at the same turn at Thunderhill from your first picture.

http://gotbluemilk.com/web090913/h/i...es/image3.html
It's actually the opposite, you want to (and are) leading the bike through the corner. Almost as if you are PULLING it through.


"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 11:31 PM
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Perfect body position will not fix this. It's just a fact that these bikes don't loose grip before they hit the ground. Crash bungs, clutch and genny covers will hit in the right conditions before you lose grip. Cut bungs down, and you'll be fine.

I have a friend who destroyed his 05 when his bung lifter his front wheel in Alcarras, Spain last Feb.
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