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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2011, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
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Full throttle

This question is for the more advanced track rider. As I am getting faster with each track day, I wonder about throttle control in corners. With my stock 04 600, as you start to exit corners can you pretty much twist it wide open? No spinning etc? I assume with what 100hp? I want to know the limits. Running q2's. Suspension stock but set up for me. I carry pretty good corner speed but want to hang with the liter boy's better. Thanks for any info.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2011, 06:13 PM
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work on your entry speed. thats the only way i pass the big bikes Lol.
i start to roll on hard as soon as im through the apex and when the bike is almost upright i twist it all the way and hit the next gear.

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-13-2011, 09:12 PM
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With a lighter weight bike (600RR vs. 1000), you should be able to carry more speed into the corner and many times you should be able to out-brake him into the corner also. Spinning up the rear tire will depend on a lot of factors such as amount of tire grip (based on the actual tire compound, how warm the tire is, the available grip of the track, and what gear you are running in), and how smooth you are or are not on the throttle. Learning to trail brake effectively into a corner will allow more corner speed also. Make sure that you've got good body position on the bike and your weight as far to the inside as possible and your upper body as low as you can manage. This of course will allow you to not have to lean the bike quite as much to get through the corner, thus more available tire footprint for corner grip. Until you get to a very high level of riding skills, the liter bikes are most likely going to pull away from you, even with a rider of less skill. It doesn't take a lot of talent to twist the throttle in a straight line and walk away from a smaller bike. Use what you have available, to you advantage and learn to maximize the H.P. and lower weight to your advantage. As your skills improve, you will finally reach the limit of a tire like the Q2's and a more track oriented tire like the Michelin Power One Competition will allow more corner grip and confidence and of course, corner speed.

One other thing..........learn to be smooth.......both on and off the throttle and on and off of the brakes. The only way that you will find your limits and the bike/tires limits is to push them until hopefully, you are skilled/experienced enough to sense the feedback that the bike is giving you........tire slip, pushing the front, bike running wide into a corner, ect.

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Last edited by xrated; 09-13-2011 at 09:16 PM.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-16-2011, 01:26 PM
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If you are getting good, get off the Q2's. Like xrated says, Michelin makes a great DOT race tire. A more track oriented tire is going to help you alot. As far as your question of going full throttle all out, it depends on a ton of things (suspension set up, body position, line, etc) If you are experienced and know how to feel the tire slipping and how to manage that, you can absolutely get to full throttle extremely quickly coming out of a turn. If you want to get better times, alot of newer riders spend a ton of time coasting. Working on not only pushing your braking points back, but also staying on the throttle all they way to your brake marker. Something to help you with your original goal of getting on the throttle more out of turns... As you are passing your apex and starting to bring the throttle on more, bend your head down and to the side more while pushing your bike more upright. By leaning your body more at the end of the turn you counteract the fact that you are standing the bike up and you are able to keep the same turning radius. What this does is it gets you on the fatter part of the tire earlier and allows you to put more throttle on earlier. It is also extremely helpful with tire management during races. Hope this helps!
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-16-2011, 01:28 PM
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Here is a great video to the point of what I was talking about, he gets on the throttle early but also stays on it late...
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-16-2011, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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Good stuff. Can't wait to apply it.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-17-2011, 09:12 PM
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Too bad that you aren't at Barber this weekend..........I'm coaching in the Novice group and I'm sure that I could work with you enough to see some big improvements in lap time. I worked with a guy at Tally last weekend and took him down 5 seconds (on a pretty short and technical track) after 1 session of him putting into practice what we talked about after the previous session.

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-18-2011, 09:53 AM
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Too bad that you aren't at Barber this weekend..........I'm coaching in the Novice group and I'm sure that I could work with you enough to see some big improvements in lap time. I worked with a guy at Tally last weekend and took him down 5 seconds (on a pretty short and technical track) after 1 session of him putting into practice what we talked about after the previous session.

nothing beats a good coach!!! i had a guy taking me around the track on some practice sessions, he cut me 8 seconds after the first session and 5 more the next. i dropped almost 28 seconds in one day.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-18-2011, 04:00 PM
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Good stuff. Can't wait to apply it.
Are you going to CMP this weekend coming up?

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-18-2011, 05:40 PM
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If you are getting good, get off the Q2's. Like xrated says, Michelin makes a great DOT race tire. A more track oriented tire is going to help you alot. As far as your question of going full throttle all out, it depends on a ton of things (suspension set up, body position, line, etc) If you are experienced and know how to feel the tire slipping and how to manage that, you can absolutely get to full throttle extremely quickly coming out of a turn. If you want to get better times, alot of newer riders spend a ton of time coasting. Working on not only pushing your braking points back, but also staying on the throttle all they way to your brake marker. Something to help you with your original goal of getting on the throttle more out of turns... As you are passing your apex and starting to bring the throttle on more, bend your head down and to the side more while pushing your bike more upright. By leaning your body more at the end of the turn you counteract the fact that you are standing the bike up and you are able to keep the same turning radius. What this does is it gets you on the fatter part of the tire earlier and allows you to put more throttle on earlier. It is also extremely helpful with tire management during races. Hope this helps!
all very good points, especially important the bolded part!
if you keep your body off the bike, you'll be able to maintain the radius while pushing the bike upright.
bike upright = less lean = more throttle.

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-18-2011, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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Are you going to CMP this weekend coming up?
Good chance. Debating what day you going
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-20-2011, 04:40 PM
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OMG!! There are so many contributing variables (DOT race tires, compounds, track (corner) surface, type of corner exit... fast, slow, track temp, suspension set-up, rider's throttle control, etc.) that you can't just answer yes/no.

I will say the 03-04 600rr has plenty of power, and is capable of spinning up even a newer DOT race tire, AGAIN.... depending on the above variables.

On Q2's.... I'd go ahead and say not to try any WOT while leaned over.

It's something you'll just need to work at with throttle maintenance, and applying a little bit more as you go along. "Baby steps". Do this, and you'll get the feel of the bikes handling, and the tire traction as you go. Don't rush it, apply it & learn it!

Oh yeah.... if you're asking the question.... don't start trying this until you mount some DOT race rubber!

GOOD LUCK Richie Rich, and don't become Crashie Crash!!

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-23-2011, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie rich View Post
With my stock 04 600, as you start to exit corners can you pretty much twist it wide open?
The goal should be to carry good corner speed, and to "pick up" the throttle as close to the apex as possible... and to be WOT as close to the apex as possible.

At our trackdays, we teach riders to "ratchet" the throttle... pretend that the throttle has "clicks" to it.

From the apex, you add a "click" of throttle and listen to the bike using all your contact points. Did the bike lose traction? Are you still on line? If so, add another click and keep repeating.

Eventually, as you get to understand how a motorcycle feels as it is approaching the edge of traction - the delays between clicks get shorter... and ultimately approach zero.

But when learning how hard you can get on the gas, using incremental throttle inputs can help avoid a high side.

If you add a "click" and the bike slides - just stay at that click and the bike should recover.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-24-2011, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. Will be working it tomorrow at CMP
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-24-2011, 09:49 PM
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Brake to the apex, accelerate out of it. Coasting is losing.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-24-2011, 10:23 PM
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Brake to the apex, accelerate out of it. Coasting is losing.

unless its raining HAHA

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-24-2011, 11:03 PM
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unless its raining HAHA
You need to be on the power all the time. Especially in the rain, coasting means no mechanical grip to the tires, especially the front, if you are coasting the front has to do all of the work and carry all of the weight and will give up more easily. Remember also that when you are on the side of the tire the revs are higher (by about 500rpm) then on the centre, so you keep power to the wheels and slowly increase as you get further around the corner, just remember, be smooth.



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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 05:38 PM
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i was attempting to be sarcastic LoL.

it would just be neutral throttle. and like you said, nice and smooth acceleration.

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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-25-2011, 07:34 PM
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Brake to the apex, accelerate out of it. Coasting is losing.
Braking all the way to the apex, or trail braking is an ADVANCED riding technique that should be reserved for the very experienced riders. It is a skill set that is best learned slowly and with extreme caution until it is mastered. Telling someone to brake to the apex, unless they have achieved that level of skill is simply BAD advice. There is only ONE option when you are trail braking to the apex..........SMOOTH, SMOOTH, and more SMOOTH, both on the brakes and then picking up the throttle. In fact, most of the professional riders will be on the brakes and the throttle at the same time, at one point. Then they will very smoothly begin releasing the brakes and rolling on the throttle.

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