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Laying rubber out of a turn?

3K views 26 replies 14 participants last post by  Niner1000RR 
#1 ·
I have a question for you track guys. I went to my second track day this past weekend with Track Tactics - my first trip to Barber. What an awesome freaking track! Anyway, there is a tight left hander commonly called Charlotte's Web where you are leaned over but accelerating pretty hard on the exit as you slowwwly stand the bike up. The instructor that was following me told me I was "laying *******" coming out. Honestly I'm a little concerned because I have no business doing that. I'm thinking something is off with my setup maybe. I was running Pilot Powers at 30/30 cold pressure. But it was pretty hot and the track was getting a little slick. Maybe they should be a bit lower? Or maybe the Pilot Powers just don't cut it at the track? I really have no idea.

Any input?

In other news, I now unerstand why GP shift is preferred for the track. Why can't they just make all bikes that way from the get-go?
 
#2 ·
I can't speak for the tires or your rubber issue but as far as the GP shift goes I think the reason it doesn't come with that shift pattern stock is to make people feel more comfortable getting onto a sportbike if they have been riding something else with a standard shift pattern for a while.
 
#3 ·
I agree with this, I switched mine to gp shift to try it out & theres no doubt it makes for better upshifts, clutchless is very smooth compared to standard. But for me, getting used to it on the road was difficult so I changed it back, theres just too many other things going on like "whats this idiot in front going to do next?".

I'll definetly use gp shift at my next TD though, maybe being able to concentrate on it for a full day will make it easier to transfer to the road, just my opinion.

Can't help you on the rubber though
 
#9 ·
aka laying down rubber snakes.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Could be a # of things...

1) Need to roll on the throttle slower/more evenly
2) Suspension settings could be off (bike might not be "squatting" enough on exit)
3) Tires could be over heating
4) Track conditions/traction/debris
5) Reaching the limits of the tires
6) Body positioning issues (though I'd hope the CR would have said something)
 
#13 ·
Imagine the throttle as a ratchet. You know it ratchet wrench clicks 20+ times before you get a full turn? Apply that same school of thought on your throttle, feel each click as you're rolling on. In essence, it's supposed to make you smoother because you're being precise with the throttle input. Not many people(no0bs) consider the throttle as an aid/tool to your suspension but it is. Having neutral/positive throttle thru the turn will settle the suspension and give you a better feedback that will instill more confidence in you as a rider. I don't know if I made much sense but if I can find a video of this that I will post it.
 
#18 ·
Interesting. I'll give that a shot next time, thanks.

I wouldn't worry too much about leaving some rubber coming out of turn 5. I am an Instructor for STT, and have several thousand miles at Barber, and, for some reason, students have a hard time with Turn 5. You can try shooting a later apex, allowing more throttle coming out of 5, but with a 600, it really isn't necessary. As long as you are not sliding the bike, you should be good. Barber has very few left hand turns, so I wouldn't worry about overheating the left side.
The bike wasn't sliding around. In fact, I didn't know the rear was spinning until the instructor told me afterwards. In an earlier session, he also told me that I "wasn't afraid of the throttle" and that he could see the bike twitching a bit on some of my exits but that I was compensating appropriately. Honestly my feel of the bike isn't in tune enough for me to pick up on everything he was seeing.

I wouldn't run those tires at the track, although I did run those, PP2CT, and Pures when I first started riding track and my bike was dual duty.
My bike is doing double duty this season too. Are they just not grippy enough for the track, or what?

Were you feeling it break traction coming out? I was riding a track a few months back and was doing the same. Im running Dunlop GPA211 Ntecs though. I def wasn't slipping on the exit, I think it was just a scorching hot day and it was literally just leaving rubber residue from how tacky the tires were.
Sounds like the same thing that was happening to me. Let's see the pic you got!
 
#14 ·
I wouldn't worry too much about leaving some rubber coming out of turn 5. I am an Instructor for STT, and have several thousand miles at Barber, and, for some reason, students have a hard time with Turn 5. You can try shooting a later apex, allowing more throttle coming out of 5, but with a 600, it really isn't necessary. As long as you are not sliding the bike, you should be good. Barber has very few left hand turns, so I wouldn't worry about overheating the left side.

As far as GP shift is concerned, I have all my bikes set up that way, street and track. It just makes more sense to me for many reasons, but it is up to you what you choose, and you can change it in 5 minutes on the CBR...
 
#15 ·
I wouldn't run those tires at the track, although I did run those, PP2CT, and Pures when I first started riding track and my bike was dual duty.

I ran 28 rear and 31 front on those tires on the track (psi is the same for PP/PP2CT/Pures). 33 front and back street.
 
#17 ·
Were you feeling it break traction coming out? I was riding a track a few months back and was doing the same. Im running Dunlop GPA211 Ntecs though. I def wasn't slipping on the exit, I think it was just a scorching hot day and it was literally just leaving rubber residue from how tacky the tires were.

Wasnt a heavy line, but just faint enough to where you could see it in a picture of me exiting.

However if you were feeling slick on the exits, might be time to upgrade tires.
 
#22 ·
In reference to the Pilot Powers. I don't recommend the if you are doing a lot of TDs because they don't offer enough grip once you are running a quick intermediate pace.
Maybe time to think about an extra set of wheels and some DOT race tires with warmers, or switching to Power One street tires at the minimum, which you can run without warmers.
Small price to pay compared to the cost of a lowside with street bodywork on your bike, or the cost of a crash period.
While nothing guarantees not crashing, peace of mind goes a long way.
 
#24 ·
Any idea what kind of times you were running?

Know who the CR was?

It's kind of odd that a newer riding wouldn't notice it, only say that because typically new(er) riders tend to be over sensitive to things like that. Often thinking they are 'sliding' when they aren't.

But there's nothing wrong with it, just something you can work on. I wouldn't apply any LESS throttle. Keep the throttle exactly the same. Only try to improve something that will stop the spin.

Once that is accomplished you apply MORE throttle to inniate the spin again, then make changes to stop the spin. Rinse and repeat.

First change I would make, is if you're running decent times then move to a DOT race tire. The additional grip may solve the issue. AFTER that, I would record a baseline on the bike and start to work there.

Love Barber! :D

If you're set up right, you can get down to say 37's-38's without spinning the rear.

And congrats and welcome to the club! :D
 
#25 ·
Don't have any lap times, and I don't remember the CR's name but he is the guy standing in front of the trash can in this pic: http://lori11.smugmug.com/TrackTact...95964_spb7DX#!i=2009579297&k=qpp9LHF&lb=1&s=A (not going to post it here for copyright reasons)

So how do you stop the spin without reducing the throttle? In my case the most obvious way would be to hang off the bike more, since I don't do a great job at that, but I'm curious what other tactics there are.
 
#26 ·
Just because you are leaving marks, doesn't mean you are necessarily spinning up the rear tire. The track is fairly abrasive and it doesn't take much to leave a little rubber behind. If you get a chance to do a track walk, do it. It can be very informative.

Come on out in Sept or Oct with STT and I will personally take you out and work with you. Turn five will be your friend by the end of the day ;)


Sent from my iPhone using MO Free
 
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