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post #1 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 01:58 AM Thread Starter
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Backing it in a turn, rear wheel drift

Hey guys,

I was wondering if any of you racers or track day regulars back in or drift the rear wheel in some of the turns. If so, how do you do this and what are some of the advantages?

I was at a track day yesterday at Las Vegas Motor Speedway Infield and Jason DiSalvo was there practicing. He was doing it all day in front of me (of course passing me like 50 more mph) and I was trying to figure it out. From what I saw he was able to carry a lot more entry speed. Thanks if anyone provides some input.


Some pics:

Jason DiSalvo (AMA pro - you can see a little smoke coming from under the rear tire)



Curtis (AMA pro - I don't know his first name but he was behind DiSalvo... Are they using the clutch?!!!)



It just makes you realize how fast turns can be taken. I can't wait to ride like that.

Last edited by predikt; 08-15-2005 at 11:54 AM.
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post #2 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 08:58 AM
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This is going to be the best thing I read all day.

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post #3 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 09:02 AM
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Man i knew it, Extreme Drifting has entered the motorcycle realm. God, now were gonna have all kindsa kids out buying bikes just to see who can sling their ass-end out the best.


Seriously, i have no idea.

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post #4 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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REM6A,
It was pretty damn crazy to see it in person and even crazier to be right behind the person when they did it. All I can think to myself is, "darn, what if I try that and high side" :)

If you can learn that technique, it seems like you can really go around the track faster. I took some video of it, mostly of Curtis because he was trying it more often but I missed DiSalvo really doing it agressively...he did it way better by far. I'll post it up as soon as I download the video to the computer, but a lot of the Moto GP and AMA guys do it.


BenReilly,
They are seriously drifting that back tire but to me only to get into a particular turn faster. They usually do this on a tight turn right after a straight, so they are hauling very fast and need to set up for a tight turn which makes more sense to drift out the rear. I can't wait to learn it, damn...
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post #5 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 11:57 AM
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Check out the movie Faster, they have an entire chapter on how it works and the discovery. Just wish I could practice this with out the high side.

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post #6 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 11:59 AM
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Its a combination of front braking and engine braking. That's all I know.. lol
post #7 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I saw that movie. That McCoy guy was doing it but I don't remember if they went specifics into the technique. That would be cool if someone from the forums that knows how to do it to break it down.
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post #8 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 12:03 PM
 
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If you remember... McCoy nearly killed himself every race... it might be fast, but it's un-predikt-able. Stick to twisting the throttle :)

Where's the pics of you, anyway?
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post #9 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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come on trik... rossi, hayden, etc. all those guys do it. The skilled riders will be able to control it, just needs practice. So let's practice it, Buttonwillow is a good start...last left hander before the straight ;)

I'm posting pics soon, I'm running out of space on this little laptop. I'm just concentrating on getting faster and smoother. Seems funny to post pics now when I know I'm over 10 seconds slower than the pros :)
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post #10 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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cvlighthouse,
;)


REM6A,
I'll watch that Faster DVD again. Would be cool if someone showed me at the track. Trik, start practicing, lol
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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 01:18 PM
 
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I'm not saying they don't all do it... but they all have also been riding their whole life! And have a little more than 105 hp at their disposal.

Anyway... fine. Let's try.
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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 01:22 PM
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I'll be sure to try it on that left at buttonwillow next mon and tues...
post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 01:23 PM
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Well I don't know if it makes you faster or not, but the last trackday I was at, I did it a couple of times... sorta. Coming of the back "straight" at VIR S I would downshift twice under braking before the turn leading into the oak tree turn. If I held the clutch in on the second downshift just a little bit longer and then let it out slower, the back end would slide out. I only did it twice and it was before I started to lean into the corner, but if timed right, I think it would have worked for "backing it in". Not sure if thats how the pros do it though. Sure was fun!
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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trik
I'm not saying they don't all do it... but they all have also been riding their whole life! And have a little more than 105 hp at their disposal.

Anyway... fine. Let's try.
lol, alright. I need more enthusiasm from you though ;)




cvlighthouse,
let us know how it goes.


gbord,
that sounds about right. Some other guy on the sidelines was telling me about the 2 downshifts and Curtis in the lower picture looks like he's feathering the clutch. It will be awesome to learn because if you get the technique down, then the more you know about the bike and can light up the turns comfortably.
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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbord
Well I don't know if it makes you faster or not, but the last trackday I was at, I did it a couple of times... sorta. Coming of the back "straight" at VIR S I would downshift twice under braking before the turn leading into the oak tree turn. If I held the clutch in on the second downshift just a little bit longer and then let it out slower, the back end would slide out. I only did it twice and it was before I started to lean into the corner, but if timed right, I think it would have worked for "backing it in". Not sure if thats how the pros do it though. Sure was fun!
gbord,
so you didn't use any rear brake right? you just used all the power delivered to the rear wheel on that 2nd downshift to slide it out?
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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbord
Well I don't know if it makes you faster or not, but the last trackday I was at, I did it a couple of times... sorta. Coming of the back "straight" at VIR S I would downshift twice under braking before the turn leading into the oak tree turn. If I held the clutch in on the second downshift just a little bit longer and then let it out slower, the back end would slide out. I only did it twice and it was before I started to lean into the corner, but if timed right, I think it would have worked for "backing it in". Not sure if thats how the pros do it though. Sure was fun!
I do the same thing on VIR south. I don't know if i'd call that backing it in, I think it's more not rev matching and causing the rear to chatter.
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post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 02:51 PM
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Unless your last name is Rossi or Hayden, at our level of riding there are far more effective (and less expensive ;)) ways of dropping lap times.
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post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quasi888
Unless your last name is Rossi or Hayden, at our level of riding there are far more effective (and less expensive ;)) ways of dropping lap times.
i know huh, imagine high siding! Well, have to start somewhere. How's the AFM guys, any of them doing it?
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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 02:59 PM
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predikt, that is Jason Curtis.. met him a few times, he is a pretty cool guy. Backing it in is done with the throttle and not the brakes. If you ride Supermoto you can see this all day, it is very common. I was riding at Grange yesterday and I saw many guys backing it in real good :) I tried it a few times myself but couldn't do it smoothly, if you don't do it right you can highside the bike real bad.

This is an advanced technique and I wouldn't practice on a street bike, most of these pros have dirt/supermoto background...that is the place to learn it because supermoto bikes are so much lighter and they have so much suspension travel so you can push the front really really hard and get the back end to spin up unlike a street bike which will tuck the front real easy ;-)

Check out this Stefan Chambon Supermoto vid, it's awesome, these bikes are so much fun...

http://www.jersey-riders.com/video/d...ilm_suzuki.wmv

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post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javawhz
predikt, that is Jason Curtis.. met him a few times, he is a pretty cool guy. Backing it in is done with the throttle and not the brakes. If you ride Supermoto you can see this all day, it is very common. I was riding at Grange yesterday and I saw many guys backing it in real good :) I tried it a few times myself but couldn't do it smoothly, if you don't do it right you can highside the bike real bad.

This is an advanced technique and I wouldn't practice on a street bike, most of these pros have dirt/supermoto background...that is the place to learn it because supermoto bikes are so much lighter and they have so much suspension travel so you can push the front really really hard and get the back end to spin up unlike a street bike which will tuck the front real easy ;-)

Check out this Stefan Chambon Supermoto vid, it's awesome, these bikes are so much fun...

http://www.jersey-riders.com/video/d...ilm_suzuki.wmv
sweet, thanks for the info javawhz. I've tried it in dirt but that's way easier to get the back end out because the rear is so squirrely, I just didn't know how to control the back end to come out on the street bike. I know there's a lot of practice involved so hopefully I can start out slowly on the street bike and not get seriously injured.

I don't want to do this just to do it or look cool. I noticed that DiSalvo and Curtis were getting around a particular turn a lot quicker so I just want to get started in learning. They were getting some serious corner entry speed and exiting fast...just another thing to learn on the track.
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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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javawhz,
What is Grange by the way?
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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predikt
i know huh, imagine high siding! Well, have to start somewhere. How's the AFM guys, any of them doing it?
Yep, a few of them do, but these are the guys that are not only class champs, but also happen to be good enough to qualify for AMA nationals.

And javawhz is spot-on, most of the guys doing it have pretty strong dirt / flat tracking backgrounds, where backing the rear in helps get the bike pointed into the turn more quickly.

Last edited by quasi888; 08-15-2005 at 03:41 PM.
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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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that video from above is pretty sweet. Thanks for the info guys...I want to try that supermoto stuff now, dang
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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predikt
...Buttonwillow is a good start...last left hander before the straight ;)

:)
'offramp' hairpin turn 2 is a better place dont you think?

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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predikt
javawhz,
What is Grange by the way?
Grange is a kart and SuperMoto racetrack

http://www.grangeracetrack.com

SuperMoto is awesome! It is absolutely crazy fun! I had the best time ever yesterday. I want to get a 525SMR or CRF450 soon.

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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 04:42 PM
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Javawhz said it before I could get to it. I also read of an Ice Racing school (yeah, ice racing) in Norway I think. They ride Busas w/ tire studs and it's part of the curriculum. The purpose of the school is mastering low traction riding technique and getting the feel down for when the bike's going to break loose on you. Definately would make a smoother rider out of the most ham-fisted.

The Canadians may have something like this too. Can any Canadian confirm?
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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantablo
'offramp' hairpin turn 2 is a better place dont you think?
That would be pretty sketchy trying to do it on turn 2 at Buttonwillow I imagine. Too many variables to think about plus there's a little kink... a slight left then right up into 2. I imagine it's more from off a high-speed straight and into a turn but I'm sure if you get the technique down you can do it in any turn that seems fit.
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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade-Runner
I do the same thing on VIR south. I don't know if i'd call that backing it in, I think it's more not rev matching and causing the rear to chatter.
I'm not sure what I would call it either, although it did seem different than a "chatter". It would be nice to get a definitive answer on how those guys do it, seems like there are a lot of opinions on how it's done.
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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javawhz
Grange is a kart and SuperMoto racetrack

http://www.grangeracetrack.com

SuperMoto is awesome! It is absolutely crazy fun! I had the best time ever yesterday. I want to get a 525SMR or CRF450 soon.
Oh man, awesome. I want to try that out. javawhz, did you own a bike or did you rent one out? Can you rent one out from them? I'd love to try it out. Let me know if you go again.
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-15-2005, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird180
Javawhz said it before I could get to it. I also read of an Ice Racing school (yeah, ice racing) in Norway I think. They ride Busas w/ tire studs and it's part of the curriculum. The purpose of the school is mastering low traction riding technique and getting the feel down for when the bike's going to break loose on you. Definately would make a smoother rider out of the most ham-fisted.

The Canadians may have something like this too. Can any Canadian confirm?

All that sounds great. Anything to get some training to become better. These are great ideas
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