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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Racing Etiquette

While leading into the first corner at a recent race I had someone "clean my clock". I won't go into my injuries but I'll definitly be off the bike for a while- started rehab yesterday. I obviously shut off too much for the sweeper before turn 1, or maybe someone else was a little too hot at that point? Maybe a combination of both? Whatever, I'd like to know. The other rider didn't go down to my knowledge and I didn't receive a cussing, a "I didn't mean for that to happen", or anything from anybody. Is this typical in racing? Please give me some feedback guys, Thanks!
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 04:29 PM
 
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The same thing happend to me at my last track day. The guy that took me out also took off someone's clutch lever. When he was approached he tried to say it wasn't his fault. A few sessions later, I was knocked out by the same guy. Busted my elbow open and cracked a rib. My bike needs a little work too.

So, either this guy (or girl) is just an ass, or they don't know they did it. You sound like the type of guy that realizes these things happen, you just want some kind of acknowledgement.
I was the same way, I just wanted a "man, Im real sorry about taking you out" or somethign to that effect.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 06:08 PM
 
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Racing and track days are too different things.

Mulligan - in your case, if it was a trackday, the person is a complete ass, and you should complain until that person is pulled from the track. No need for someone to be out there getting others hurt.

As for racing... I never raced street. Raced motocross for about 10 yrs... If someone is going too slow, you get by them as cleanly as possible. So... maybe you were going too slow, or they were too hot, in any case, it was most likely an accident. If you pulled the holeshot, you better be going first place speed in that first corner or it will get hairy.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 06:25 PM
 
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I had an "incident" were my 600 shut off mid-turn on the fastest turn after the checkered flag. I threw my hand up real quick but then had to grab clutch cause the bike was trying to jump start but wouldn't re-fire. I had to go real wide and evidently a rider behind me was still balls out and I pushed him wide also. I immediatley tracked him down and apologized. He was super pissed and screaming I should have had my hand up. Point is I made sure to apologize, my fault, my bike.
Cool thing was just Monday at the track he chopped off my buddy at a really dangerous place. He immediatley came over to apologize saying it was a real dumb move and he got in to hot.
So yes, no matter what they should have came and at least explained themselves. Even knowing they might get an earful!

Last edited by jonesti; 09-22-2005 at 06:29 PM.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 07:01 PM
 
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<---See my tagline then read https://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=30027

Took me a week to trackdown the cowardly rider too. Cast comes off on Monday and rehab starts for a month, then I can get back on a street bike. Hope to make it back on track once more before the winter rains.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 07:27 PM
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At my last trackday I stuffed a guy into a corner real bad but the closing speed was so great I had no place to go. I went to him in the pits and said I was sorry for passing him like that. He was ok with me after that so It all depends on the person.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 07:54 PM
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The lead rider always has the right of way as long as you hold your line. It is the passing rider's responsibility to do so cleanly. Only exception is if you are getting lapped then you yield to the faster rider. You can probably hear them coming up your ass if not you'll probably be blue flagged.

Last edited by tornado bait; 09-22-2005 at 07:58 PM.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 08:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tornado bait
The lead rider always has the right of way as long as you hold your line. It is the passing rider's responsibility to do so cleanly. Only exception is if you are getting lapped then you yield to the faster rider. You can probably hear them coming up your ass if not you'll probably be blue flagged.
There are no exceptions, especially in club racing. It is always the passing riders responsibility to do so cleanly. Club racing has no place for Yates-like riders, we all have to get up and go to work in the morning....

As for blue flags, not all race orgs use them, and no you cannot hear an AMA-level racer coming up on a new racer, it happens in the blink of an eye.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltedworld
There are no exceptions, especially in club racing. It is always the passing riders responsibility to do so cleanly. Club racing has no place for Yates-like riders, we all have to get up and go to work in the morning....

As for blue flags, not all race orgs use them, and no you cannot hear an AMA-level racer coming up on a new racer, it happens in the blink of an eye.
Thanks for so delicately interjecting. I guess you've never heard there are exceptions to every rule. We obviously agree that it is the passing riders responsibility to pass cleanly. Would you not agree that it is also the slower riders responsibility to hold their line?....and IF they are aware that they are being overtaken to yield if they can do so safely?...especially in heavy traffic where leads can be made or broken? And I'm aware that there is a broad enough spectrum of talent that a new racer may never hear an AMA level racer coming up on them, but that begs the question of whether they should be on the track at the same time. I mentioned the blue flag because as you mentioned, not all race orgs use them, but obviously some do as I see you have heard of it.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 09:01 PM
 
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Sorry, I am a bit bitter, especially since I "was" that rider. Yes I agree with you on all points, but when said rider holds his/her line and is literally punted off the track with contact, you get a whole new perspective.

As for the question as to why the two levels are on the same track at same time, well you should come visit the AFM, one of the only regional clubracing series that does not separate the new racers till their feet are sufficiently up to speed. We have a ridiculous 130% of race leader rule, but when there's 75 on the grid, the AMA level guys can catch the back of the pack in a sprint race since they have a half lap lead on you by the time you get through the first turn. I run at about 115% of the leaders now and I'm being lapped but the top 3-4 on the last lap. You would not believe the closing speed differential these guys have on the tail end of the group, its like putting A-group track riders on the same track as C-group newbies. You simply cannot hear them coming.

Theres a big debate in our club on how to make this problem less so, as here in CA we have regular AMA privateers that run in the club races for more "practice." The solutions proposed are to separate out the novice/expert riders that don't keep under 115% of the race leaders, effectively taking lappers out of the equation. I for one hope it goes through, I'd rather be racing for the lead in a junior race while improving and then racing at the back of the main event than having 50-75 on the grid and having the ensuing crashfests.

Last edited by tiltedworld; 09-22-2005 at 09:07 PM.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2005, 09:20 PM
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Talking

No need to apologize. Besides I think it is good discussion for the guys that are just taking to the track. And thanks for making clear the point that a passer is never absolved of the responsibility to make a clean pass. Being from CA you undoubtedly deal with bigger crowds on the track than I do in the Mid-West. Just a fact of demographics and one that I'm thankfull for.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2005, 03:11 AM
 
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Ive been the one getting lapped, and have been moaned about as getting in the way. We dont use blue flags, its the passing riders responsibility to get past.

Ive also now been the rider lapping backmarkers, and on occasion they have cost me a place, which is frustrating.

But the riders Im chasing in the race dont get out the way for me, so why should I expect anyone I have to pass, backmarker or not, to? If I can pass safely I will, if not, then I have to wait until I can.

:)
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2005, 09:50 AM
 
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It's always the passing rider's responsiblility to pass cleanly. In club racing the main problem is perspective. Usually unsafe riders are those who honestly believe they have MotoGP type talent, unfortunately the fact that they don't is plainly obvious when the take someone out. To the guy who mentioned "Yates style" riders... he wasn't that way at the club level. I raced with him on many occasions and he was fast AND clean, and a good guy. Hesitation is another problem and I think that is what caught Rossi out at Motegi. If you watch the crash it appears that had Rossi just stuffed it in there he'd have been able to pass Melandri. Instead, you can see him hesitate, most likely due to the chance of lowsiding and taking out the rider (who he knows is his friend, Melandri) and decides to bleed some speed and run wide. That's what caused him to catch Melandri in the tail and it led to a much worse accident then if he'd lowsided and collected him.
All that said, racing is still dangerous and accidents happen. If you race long enough you will a) be taken out by someone and b)take someone out , if you don't think so you're fooling yourself. Offering an apology is a must, possibly helping fix the bike as well.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-24-2005, 02:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCSEX122
Offering an apology is a must, possibly helping fix the bike as well.
Agreed, which is why I was so bitter. Not only did it take me a week to figur out who it was, the apology was not very forthcoming, nor were his reasons for even trying to find the ride he punted. I can't wait to speak him face-to-face and at least look him in his cowardly eye.

I'd be nice if he offered to help fix my bike, or even pay for the new transponder that got destroyed, but I ain't holding my breath.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-24-2005, 08:59 AM
 
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That sucks, man. I've taken a guy out ONCE. It was so bad that I offered to do whatever I could to help the guy, but he did have a broken rib so I couldn't do much about that. It was at Talladega going into one, I have no idea how but I never saw my braking marker and I was in a gaggle of riders, went straight across the grass and the bike t-boned someone in the turn. It's a horrible feeling and I can't imagine how someone wouldn't feel as if they needed to apologize and help... guess some people suck.
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