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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-12-2005, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Downshifting??

Ok, soooo how do you guys match revs while downshifting under braking??? I have trouble goosing the gas a little while maintaining constant braking pressure on the lever. Hand usually slips as I try and turn the throttle and I'm just wondering if there is a different way I should be doing it...

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-12-2005, 11:07 PM
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i use one finger on the brake so its pretty easy for me, but honestly most times i let off, blip downshift, then brake again.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-12-2005, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snikwad
i use one finger on the brake so its pretty easy for me, but honestly most times i let off, blip downshift, then brake again.
Ditto... just gotta fine tune it with the "practice" wrench.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2005, 12:10 AM
 
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I use only one or two fingers on the front brak,depending on how hard I am stopping,but I always match revs when downshifting.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2005, 12:15 AM
 
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Practice, practice, practice. I use two fingers on the brake and can grip and blip the throttle using the ring and pinky finger without affecting my fingers on the brake much.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2005, 12:30 AM
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It just takes practice. I use two fingers on the front brake, and that works OK.

But, every time I switch to a different bike, it takes a while to get the feel for the new bike.

You can practice it in the garage...work on blipping the throttle while keeping the same pressure on the brake.

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2005, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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ok so i guess it's not just me...

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-13-2005, 06:47 PM
 
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i just dont brake.... i downshift around 6k and if it dosnt stop in time i start to brake...
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 06:34 AM
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Practice and make sure your brake lever is set in a position where it'll work best..

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 11:14 AM
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i'm with darkjedi, I had to move my brake lever to "6" which is the closest setting...and i use 1-2 fingers to brake.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 11:41 AM
 
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Given that this was posted in the racing and trackday forum, I don't think engine braking is going to achieve the performance he wants :icon_lol: Nor is downshifting at 6k.

That said, unfortunately there is no trick to it. A good adjustable aftermarket lever helps, so does using one finger... but personally I prefer to use two. Really all you can do is practice practice practice.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 12:14 PM
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Three different techniques I use, depending on which bike I'm on.

1. Slipper clutch. :-) (Only the race bike has it. I don't ride aggressively on the street anyway, so my street bike doesn't need it.)

2. Blipping. As others have said, practice practice practice. But I have started weaning myself out of this habit in favor of......

3. Feathering the clutch. Don't treat the clutch as an on-off switch. You can let it out slowly, modulating its re-engagement point as your engine speed catches up to your tire speed. Try it. It leaves you with one less control (throttle) to worry about, allowing your right hand to concentrate on just the braking.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 12:27 PM
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had same problem, found out it was the gloves i was using. the "palm or heal" pad was bigger than previous gloves.

Now I blimp 2 gears then downshift the rest with just clutch
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotch2
Given that this was posted in the racing and trackday forum, I don't think engine braking is going to achieve the performance he wants :icon_lol: Nor is downshifting at 6k.

That said, unfortunately there is no trick to it. A good adjustable aftermarket lever helps, so does using one finger... but personally I prefer to use two. Really all you can do is practice practice practice.
Well keep in mind that track days are not race days so engine braking is very applicable here. In fact, I was engine braking all day yesterday at Jennings.

With that in mind, I agree with most everyone else here. Practice. I use one finger (Ring finger), 2 if I'm in really deep, and blip the throttle with my index finger and thumb. It helps to relax the rest of your fingers so you can keep consistant pressure on the lever while you're blipping.


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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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yeah i was THINKING about feathering... guess you call it the manual slipper, but I really just wanted to get good at blipping too... thanks guys.

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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 06:23 PM
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i use the booger finger, its always covering it.
heres how i got it bro.

Try doing it without the brake at first.
just blip clutch downshift... once you have that, reach out and pull on that lever a little AND THEN SLOWLY, work on increasing brake pressure.

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Last edited by snikwad; 11-14-2005 at 07:50 PM.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 07:12 PM
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Did you mean the booger finger? Or the finger you us to molest lil boys? ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by snikwad
i use the bugger finger, its always covering it.
heres how i got it bro.

Try doing it without the brake at first.
just blip clutch downshift... once you have that, reach out and pull on that lever a little AND THEN SLOWLY, work on increasing brake pressure.

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senedane
Did you mean the booger finger? Or the finger you us to molest lil boys? ;-)
oh hell no.
do you see micheals nose in my avatar.
yeah, exactly.
I meant the booger finger.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 08:16 PM
 
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This article on SportRider's site should help you out...

http://sportrider.com/ride/RSS/146_0112_rss/
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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thanks guys... riding this summer and fall i got it to the point where I can brake moderately while blippin' but i'm not real consistent... my brake lever is set on 4 right now though so maybe I'll try moving it a little to bring it in closer... I usually use two fingers on the level, two on the throttle...

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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 09:50 PM
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mine is set at 6. and it'll prolly stay there even after i get SS lines.
How many fingers you use?

No more mod listing, shits is STILL too long

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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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two fingers brake, two on the throttle.. bad habit of wristing the throttle to blip rather than just using my ring and pinky, think that might be part of my problem.

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 10:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snikwad
How many fingers you use?

I use two in the pink and one in the stink... wait, that's something else...

I use two for the break and just blip the throttle. Took a while to get used to. At first, I just downshifted and braked separately. Then, gradually started to give a little bit of brake each time. I'm still not that smooth at it, but getting better.
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 12:49 PM
 
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Feathering Clutch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by quasi888
3. Feathering the clutch. Don't treat the clutch as an on-off switch. You can let it out slowly, modulating its re-engagement point as your engine speed catches up to your tire speed. Try it. It leaves you with one less control (throttle) to worry about, allowing your right hand to concentrate on just the braking.
I like this technique the best, but I heard it wears the clutch out fast! Have you seen detrimental wear on your clutch using this technique?
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjanick
I like this technique the best, but I heard it wears the clutch out fast! Have you seen detrimental wear on your clutch using this technique?
None.

In theory, it should. But, I was doing this on the race bike even before I got the slipper clutch, so the clutch has been subject to race starts too. I'm still on the original OEM clutch plates.

Here's the technique as it was described by a local AFM guy:

1. Hit my brake marker for the turn
2. Release throttle completely. Do not touch again until you're in the turn
3. Front brakes full on.
4. Clutch in, bang down one
5. Wait variable amount time (from zero to maybe as long as a half second) until the road speed of the bike matches your expected revs when you release the clutch. This is the first place that "feel" is required
6. Feather out the clutch. This is the second place that "feel" is required. If a rear wheel slide is desired (e.g. to "back the bike in" to a turn) release the clutch faster.
7. Goto step 4 until you're in the right gear
8. Tip the bike into the turn
9. Pick up the throttle as you get off the brakes

It's much simpler than it sounds. But it works, even on my SV650 twin which has much more engine braking.

By the way, I heard some guy named Jake Zemke does this too. But what does he know. ;)

Last edited by quasi888; 11-15-2005 at 09:17 PM.
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 07:53 AM
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I didn't see quasi888 earlier post about slipping the clutch but can testify that I'm very hard on clutches. Not only do I adjust it with more free-play (@1"), I slip the clutch constantly. It makes the transition between braking and shifting exceptionally smooth with practice. Almost 20k miles on my bike and no problems with my clutch.


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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quasi888
Three different techniques I use, depending on which bike I'm on.

1. Slipper clutch. :-) (Only the race bike has it. I don't ride aggressively on the street anyway, so my street bike doesn't need it.)

2. Blipping. As others have said, practice practice practice. But I have started weaning myself out of this habit in favor of......

3. Feathering the clutch. Don't treat the clutch as an on-off switch. You can let it out slowly, modulating its re-engagement point as your engine speed catches up to your tire speed. Try it. It leaves you with one less control (throttle) to worry about, allowing your right hand to concentrate on just the braking.
once again, I'm with Quassi! I'll take number 3 as well.

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 08:20 AM
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Eazy, are you doing that on your 03 Pink Tricycle or the RR. I brake super hard on the street at lights and stop signs and worried about slipping off my pedals. Just wanted to know.

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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 08:28 AM
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I like to do it on both....

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-16-2005, 03:42 PM
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You da man... That's why I asked.

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