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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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Unusual amount of crashes?

Just had my first trackday last week and I'm still trying to get over the insane amount of crashes that happened.

A fourth of the novice group crashed out by the end of the day. We even had an instructor lowside. The intermediate had its fair share as well.

Is it unusual to have a bunch of crashes in a single trackday?

Always knew it happened but didn't think it happened this often.

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2014, 01:39 PM
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That is a good deal amount of crashes. It happens, but usually NOT that often. Especially not novice level riders. Typically, they're too scared to do anything significant, so 1 or 2 people crash in that level per day from my experience riding in the "slow" group.


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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2014, 02:09 PM
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Was it with Absolute at NJMP?


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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2014, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdel View Post
Was it with Absolute at NJMP?
No, it was with STT at Gingerman Raceway. That being said, STT put on a super-tight track day and everything felt controlled and safe. Seemed a lot of the novice riders were riding insanely fast. I was in group 6 and felt like the pace was "just right" and we were by far the slowest group.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2014, 06:44 PM
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Usually it's the wild west that is B group

("B Group - Too Fast for C, Too Wild for A")

But of course anything can happen. Sometimes you get a big group of friends that are from another corner of motorcycling that all decide that they're gonna try to race each other and end up being a group casualty. Sometimes it's one day after a rain storm has washed all the sweet grip off the candy stripes and everyone finds that out the hard way.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2014, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingChance View Post
Usually it's the wild west that is B group

("B Group - Too Fast for C, Too Wild for A")

But of course anything can happen. Sometimes you get a big group of friends that are from another corner of motorcycling that all decide that they're gonna try to race each other and end up being a group casualty. Sometimes it's one day after a rain storm has washed all the sweet grip off the candy stripes and everyone finds that out the hard way.
B/N group scares me the most of any group. Sure I and A go faster, but B is filled with people that have no idea. The only time I've ever seen an airlift was when a B group person decided the kink coming through bridge straight on Shenandoah (Summit Point) was a good spot to get target fixation.


Not that B/N group is bad. When you can't hold a single line though, you need to man up and ask a coach/instructor/trainer/whoever for help, to make it safer for you and all the riders around you. It's not a race out there.


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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-05-2014, 09:22 AM
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I'm sitting here seriously contemplating my first track day and my biggest fear is that I'll wreck and mess up my bike. I should have never read this thread.

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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-05-2014, 11:59 AM
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If you are just doing a track day, I'd say 95% of crashes are inevitable and are the result of a rider's bad choices.

If you go out there and employ purposeful practice, leave your ego at home and ride in a calculated fashion, you aren't going to crash. If you bail its because you made a stupid choice.


I see it all the time, people go out on track, twist the throttle to the stop and have zero plan of action for each corner. The crash because they are taking shots in the dark with regards to brake markers, turn in points, apexes and exit lines.

You cannot guess when it comes to these things.


If you practice purposefully you will be fine. Go out, start slow. Get a feel for the lines (better yet ask an experienced guy to lead you around at a slow pace for a session). Study the turn in points, apexes, exit targets. Once you are on your own ride a conservative pace on the straights, set your entry speed early, and focus on hitting the lines you studied earlier.

After you find you can ride on the same line consistently you can start making BABY steps. Add a little speed on the straights, but keep your same brake markers. Once you are comfortable with increased entry speeds, you can make BABY steps with your brake markers. Move them back 3 or 4 feet at a time. NEVER GUESS. I see it so often that a guy will brake early, feel he took the corner too slow and then in his head say 'I could have gone way faster through there, next time I'll brake later'. Next lap is the inevitable, too late for his comfort level on the brakes, too fast on entry for his comfort level on entry and then the obvious off track excursion or front end tuck.

In these cases the rider CHOSE to crash because he didn't employ purposeful practice techniques. He had it coming.



Track days are nothing to be scared of, but they certainly require a good amount of self control and the will to learn how to properly control your bike and navigate the track.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-05-2014, 12:52 PM
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Not saying it was or wasn't the cause, but that weekend at G'man was pretty chilly, wasn't it? Could some of the crashes be attributed to the chilly temps? Also, for us northern guys, that is the first time many of them were on the bikes for the year.

I'm pretty pissed I missed out on DiSalvo being there. Would have been cool to watch.

BTW, are you heading to Grattan this weekend? Got a group from this side of the state heading out there.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-05-2014, 02:26 PM
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You just gotta give no fcks bro. Just go out there and WOT the **** out of your braaap.

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-05-2014, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spektrum View Post
No, it was with STT at Gingerman Raceway. That being said, STT put on a super-tight track day and everything felt controlled and safe. Seemed a lot of the novice riders were riding insanely fast. I was in group 6 and felt like the pace was "just right" and we were by far the slowest group.

One of the worst track day experiences I had was with STT at NJMP. There were people crashing everywhere. I can't even tell you how many red flags we had to deal with. My biggest issue with them was the rules (or lack of). Not sure if anything changed over the years (as this was 2-3 years ago) but they basically had no passing rules in the beginner group except, Don't pass on the inside, and allow 3 feet between you and other riders. 3 feet! In the beginner group. Also, there are always a few jabronis in the beginner group that think they're Rossi and ride like morons. With other groups I've ridden with they would usually get a talking to in the first couple of sessions but not that day.
Ridden with TPM, NESBA, and Tony's never really had any issues with them. I think it really comes down to the rules, coaching philosophy and the quality of the actual coaches. There are going to be crashes but that just seems excessive.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-05-2014, 04:44 PM
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STG has changed their novice passing rules in the last couple years. Now you typically are not allowed to pass unless on the straight and with a ten foot cushion, and that is only if the instructor allows it.

-Chad

"Logically, any motorcyclist can do 60* of lean. The trick is coming back up again." - Neal Spalding
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-05-2014, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
If you are just doing a track day, I'd say 95% of crashes are inevitable and are the result of a rider's bad choices.

If you go out there and employ purposeful practice, leave your ego at home and ride in a calculated fashion, you aren't going to crash. If you bail its because you made a stupid choice.


I see it all the time, people go out on track, twist the throttle to the stop and have zero plan of action for each corner. The crash because they are taking shots in the dark with regards to brake markers, turn in points, apexes and exit lines.

You cannot guess when it comes to these things.


If you practice purposefully you will be fine. Go out, start slow. Get a feel for the lines (better yet ask an experienced guy to lead you around at a slow pace for a session). Study the turn in points, apexes, exit targets. Once you are on your own ride a conservative pace on the straights, set your entry speed early, and focus on hitting the lines you studied earlier.

After you find you can ride on the same line consistently you can start making BABY steps. Add a little speed on the straights, but keep your same brake markers. Once you are comfortable with increased entry speeds, you can make BABY steps with your brake markers. Move them back 3 or 4 feet at a time. NEVER GUESS. I see it so often that a guy will brake early, feel he took the corner too slow and then in his head say 'I could have gone way faster through there, next time I'll brake later'. Next lap is the inevitable, too late for his comfort level on the brakes, too fast on entry for his comfort level on entry and then the obvious off track excursion or front end tuck.

In these cases the rider CHOSE to crash because he didn't employ purposeful practice techniques. He had it coming.



Track days are nothing to be scared of, but they certainly require a good amount of self control and the will to learn how to properly control your bike and navigate the track.

Nice bit of wisdom there. For most of us separating fantasy from reality is the ultimate challenge.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-06-2014, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr6racr View Post
Not saying it was or wasn't the cause, but that weekend at G'man was pretty chilly, wasn't it? Could some of the crashes be attributed to the chilly temps? Also, for us northern guys, that is the first time many of them were on the bikes for the year.

I'm pretty pissed I missed out on DiSalvo being there. Would have been cool to watch.

BTW, are you heading to Grattan this weekend? Got a group from this side of the state heading out there.
Yep, cold track and a lot of riders blowing off the cob webs. There were a ton of lowsides, so it would make sense.

It was my first track day ever so I really had nothing to compare it to. Surprising to say the least but I'm glad to hear days like this are unusual.

DiSalvo was insanely fast. Was glad I wasn't riding advanced because he was intense to watch from the sidelines, could only imagine being out there with him.

And yep, I'll be out there Sunday. Bringing the mom along to celebrate Mother's Day

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-06-2014, 07:21 AM
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Sweet! Hope to see you out there. I'll keep an eye out for you.

-Chad

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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-06-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr6racr View Post
STG has changed their novice passing rules in the last couple years. Now you typically are not allowed to pass unless on the straight and with a ten foot cushion, and that is only if the instructor allows it.

That's good to know (I'm assuming you meant STT). When I rode with them they must have been very new. I can tell you that it was very unorganized and there were essentially no rules...or the rules weren't enforced at all. First or second session some clown tried to pass me on the inside of a turn, came in too hot (or he must have thought he did) and went down right in front of me. I almost ran the guy over.
I'm glad to hear they got their sh*t together.
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-06-2014, 10:52 AM
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Lot of factored to consider but that sounds like a lot of crashes.

I just got done doing a 2 day event and we had 7 pick ups TOTAL all weekend running from 9-6pm each day.

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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-06-2014, 02:49 PM
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I just did my first day of the year at the STT Pro School at Grattan last Friday. Was my first trackday in the wet and I was amazed at how natural it felt to me...right up until I lost the rear and lowsided in the bus stop.

As for STT, they run a tight ship but last summer was my first riding with them so I don't know what the rules used to be. Currently the rules are N: bikes have to be straight up and down with 6' all around; I: outside of corners only and 6' all around; A: anything goes, no stuffing another rider.
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