A "Would you buy?" question for the seasoned track riders out there - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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A "Would you buy?" question for the seasoned track riders out there

Skip to the last two paragraphs if you're only interested in the focus of this thread.

Big news for this guy, : I recently went to the track and had a great time! I boondock sleds, grew up on dirtbikes and quads, and can honestly say of all the motorsports I've participated in, I haven't enjoyed one more than I enjoyed that experience. Its NOTHING like street riding or even fast paced canyon runs. I'll have to post up pics and a thread when I get the chance, over viewing the event for those interested. That said, there was one minor caveat to the day that was in the back of my mind the entire time, incessantly bothering me to the point that when the day ended I was actually relieved. The thought of laying down my bike. For those who arent familiar with my mindset, I am one of the most meticulous, detail oriented people you will ever meet. I take great pride in maintaining and owning my bike, and it is flawless. Don't misinterpret that as I don't ride the bike the way it was designed to be ridden, because I do. I downright beat the hell out of it, but not to the point of thoughtlessly tossing it down the road or foregoing maintenance. The thought process "its meant to get trashed" does not exist in my world, unless that is its purpose. For example, I took very good care of my dirtbikes, but I understood their purpose and as such rode them without concern to cosmetics. I rode on the edge, constantly trying to progress my skill level, and accepted the damage that came from falling, because dirtbikes are meant to go down. Nice shiny sportbikes are not meant to be thrown down the road or a track for that matter, unless that is the purpose you bought it for, in which case, odds are you have a track dedicated machine with race plastics. Which brings me to the purpose of this thread. If I am going to commit to track riding, with the intent of progressing, I understand I am going to fall. I accept that, but I need a track dedicated bike that I can comfortably say I'm ok with throwing down the track.

I came across a 2008 CBR1000RR with a clean title and only 5000 miles on it, last 1000 were track miles. Its a track bike, no street fairings, or lights would be included. I have yet to see it, so I may walk away if its a mess, but the seller says its only been low sided twice and the frame slider, case slider, fairings, and bar end took the damage. All has since been replaced. Im ok with that cause again I feel its to be expected of a track bike, although I'll pass on a bike that has been flipped, pole vaulted, and tumbled. If any of you have your own opinions, please feel free to vocalize them. Regardless, I offered him $5000 and he was hesitant to go that low but eventually agreed.

My question is does that seem like a good deal on that year/mileage/lack of street fairings/etc. I dont care that it doesn't have the stock equipment, since i will use it as a track bike, but it would be nice to have for resale. Also would have preferred a 600 as I feel they are better suited to the track, but I think this could be a nice little gem and a good price. What are your thoughts?

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 10:27 PM
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$5k should be a decent price for a 1000RR with that low miles. As long as the rest of the bike checks out, runs 100%, and the damages from the lowside are minimal. It is a track bike and when you buy it, you will probably crash it also.

Of course a 600cc is usually better for the track especially for a new track rider, but a liter bike is doable if you take it easy and learn from your instructors. Its really up to you. I don't know your street/track riding experience but if you are mature and humble when it comes to learning to ride the track, a modern liter bike is fine.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 11:13 PM
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Of course a 600cc is usually better for the track especially for a new track rider, but a liter bike is doable if you take it easy and learn from your instructors. Its really up to you. I don't know your street/track riding experience but if you are mature and humble when it comes to learning to ride the track, a modern liter bike is fine.

Post pics of the bike if you have any.


But, I would wait and see if you can get an 600RR for track duty, you'll have more fun learning how to go fast with less risk of falling because the 1000RR has way more power and even if you take your time is not fun... Trust me, I had an 600RR 03 got me from beginner to advanced sold it, got an 2012 1000RR had it for 1.5 years could not get as fast as I was on the 600RR because the bike just was to powerful and I was intimidated. Got other 600RR and it was business as usual and FUN!

GL... for sure track is the way to go....

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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I've been riding for a long time, not to mention my dirt history, and feel EXTREMELY comfortable on a bike. Ironically enough none of that translated over to the track. It was a humbling experience seeing how I stacked up to other guys when I thought I was a "good" rider. By the end of the day I was one the faster guys in C Group, the entry level. B was intermediate and A was advanced. I'm not so concerned with the size of the bike as I respect it and have the throttle control to handle it. My hesitation is the fact I'd prefer a 600 but I came across this and it seemed like a killer deal. If $5k is nothing to write home about I'll probably pass but most '08 1000rr's are $6500 - $7000+ in my state and I wanted to capitalize on it if it was.

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 11:59 PM
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Niner1000rr Could actually give some input on this as he has gone from 600rr to 1000 then down to 250.

There is a lot to learn on a 250, I haven't done it but my thoughts behind it would be that because the power isn't really there it forces you to want to carry more corner speed for the exit so you really perfect your lines and technique. On a 1000rr you're just going to want to use all the power on the exit and not exactly learn much as far as being quick in corners.

Now everyone is different, and I probably wouldn't drop down to a 250 unless I was sponsored and they were paying for the bikes. I'll stick to my 600rr to try and gain as much knowledge as I can for cornering and then I'll eventually get on the 1000.

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 02:01 AM
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 12:28 PM
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If the deal is that good get the 1000RR and see how you do for a season, then sell it and get the 600RR....

The bike it self feels just like a 600RR but with double the power ... You'll see.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 12:34 PM
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I think it depends mostly on your riding style. This is extremely critical.

Different bikes suit different riding styles differently.

Personally, I HATE the 250's. I find it to be absolutely ZERO fun. The 600 is a blast, but a 1000 REALLY suits my riding style.

Remember also, the smaller the displacement the more momentum you MUST maintain. Because you can't get it back. To me, I hate this because it means going fastest in the most dangerous parts of the track. The corners! lol

On the 1000, that's where I go the slowest. I go the fastest on the straights, which are the safest.

But you have to do what you think you'll enjoy the most.

The price doesn't sound bad as long as it's clean. And some '08's burn oil. As long as it's not a burner, I would consider it. I absolutely LOVE my 08 1000RR!!!



"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 01:49 PM
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I like going fast through corners, that's where the fun is.

that was the reason I traded it my 1000RR because it was so fast on the straights that force me to brake a little too hard and kind park through the corner and be afraid to open the throttle.... I do miss that straight away power tho :D...

I do agree is how you would feel on the bike...

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 02:18 PM
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My personal opinion: Skip any bike over 70HP if you're focus/goal is to learn.


Smaller HP bikes will teach you corner speed. Also, for a track bike forget about making it pretty, eventually everyone will crash if they consistently push their limits. Make it functional and mechanically sound. Go through the entire bike and get rid of all the gremlins (if there are any).

SV650, EX650, Hawk GT650, GS500, EX250/300, CBR250R, CBR500R/F, etc.

^All of these bikes can be had for $2-4K. I would search for track/race bikes as they will already have all the better/good suspension and brake mods on the bike. Those are they key things. Forget exhaust or power related items. They're useless until you are in the advanced/expert group and the edge of racing. Use the extra funds left over for tires/fuel/trackdays.

Lastly, it's your money. Do what you want with it. Regardless of what everyone will say, you should set a budget and a goal. Be specific with both and stick with the plan.

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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You have all had great points. My riding style is fast on the straights with hard LATE braking, corner speed probably wasn't all that fast compared to some experienced guys but I was passing a lot of guys through the corners and on the outside. So that's something id like to continue to improve. I can see the benefits of a 250 but like Niner, I feel a lot of fun would be removed from the experience.

I spoke with the seller again today and asked if he had spare tires or any other parts for the bike and he mentioned a spare swingarm. I asked why and he said the last low side ripped the rear spool mount clean off. So that is a concern. I'll see the bike tomorrow morning in person.

How can you tell if it's a burner since the seller obviously won't disclose that?


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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2014, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makct04 View Post
My personal opinion: Skip any bike over 70HP if you're focus/goal is to learn.
What if it doesn't suit your riding style? You can ride it for YEARS and progress VERY slowly. Hop on a different bike and progress FAR faster.

That goes in both directions, whether you're thinking about going with a bigger bike or going with a smaller bike.

When I used to stick to the 600, I progressed very slowly. And was what I would consider barely above the average racer. But when I started competing on a literbike, that changed. I was suddenly at the front of the grid.


"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2014, 02:13 PM
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What if it doesn't suit your riding style? You can ride it for YEARS and progress VERY slowly. Hop on a different bike and progress FAR faster.

That goes in both directions, whether you're thinking about going with a bigger bike or going with a smaller bike.

When I used to stick to the 600, I progressed very slowly. And was what I would consider barely above the average racer. But when I started competing on a literbike, that changed. I was suddenly at the front of the grid.
I know we both have different views on this subject from previous discussions and I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.


Niner does have a point, the bike that fits/feels better to you is the one you should get.

Just from my personal experience, riding a smaller bike I am able to carry much greater corner speed than I did previously on a big bike. When I take what I learn from the small bike and transfer it to the big bike I am easily able to carry the same corner speed and use more of the power on the straights. However, that's just me.


EDIT - Also, I'm a big proponent of always trying new/different styles of motorcycles. The more you ride different bikes the better you'll get overall. You'll learn/find your weaknesses and hopefully grow from them.

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2014, 02:26 PM
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I know we both have different views on this subject from previous discussions and I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
LOL Hey I'm cool with that! For me it's not about agreeing or not. It's about what makes sense.



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Just from my personal experience, riding a smaller bike I am able to carry much greater corner speed than I did previously on a big bike. When I take what I learn from the small bike and transfer it to the big bike I am easily able to carry the same corner speed and use more of the power on the straights. However, that's just me.
Absolutely, I was just saying, does that make you better?

Lets say you get used to riding a 250 and you get used to the braking markers, entry speed and corner speed on that bike. How does that help you when you move to a bigger big that has now new (different) brake markers, entry and corner speeds?

That's all I'm saying. It's not about "graduating" from one to another. It's about what you enjoy and what works for you. You might get on a 250 and love it so much you'll be racing it into your 60's (that's VERY common with LT's and the like).

Or you might hop on a literbike and never, ever, get off of it.

They are each completely different animals. And one doesn't really help you with another. They each have advantages and disadvantages.

Learning cornerspeed on a 250 isn't going to teach me a thing about the throttle control I NEED on the 1000. lol


"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2014, 03:55 PM
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They each have advantages and disadvantages.
Agreed. However, take that with a grain of salt. Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages.

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Learning cornerspeed on a 250 isn't going to teach me a thing about the throttle control I NEED on the 1000. lol
It may NOT teach you throttle control but it will teach you when to get on the throttle in the corner. Generally speaking, the earlier the better if your goal is to go faster. Having a big bike, many people are hesistant to roll on to the throttle early and then they hamfist when the bike is almost stood up or in the straights, that's usually too late and in my opinion very dangerous especially on off camber turns. On a small bike it's pretty much positive throttle from the apex and full throttle as soon as the bike is starting to stand up. If you want a good reference for when you're getting on the throttle look at your rear tires. You can see a definitely drive line, I don't have any pictures handy but maybe Niner does. It looks similar to "chicken strips", the bigger the gap from the edge of the tire the later you are on the throttle.

Ashes, what I am merely stating is it may be easier for most people to start on a smaller bike and learn a lot in a short period of time since they do not have to harness a lot of power. However, if you are not comfortable on a bike you'll lack confidence. The key to getting better/faster = confidence. No matter if you are no0b on the MSF course or Mick Doohan, if you don't feel confident with the machine underneath you, then you will not enjoy riding or make progress.


EDIT - The last factor in making your decision should be which ever bike you will have more fun on which comes back to, Which bike will you be the most comfortable on?

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-31-2014, 01:27 PM
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We definitely agree there, a smaller bike in general is going to want to kill you less than a bigger bike. Therefore, I also agree everyone should start on something small(er).

It didn't sound like this was about a new rider though. ;)


"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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I am by no means a novice, and could comfortably ride any bike I get. My main interest is to progress and you each brought up extremely valid yet conflicting points. My corner speed, entry speed, and lines would all improve on a 250 since momentum is everything. Conversely, Niner brings up a valid point that braking markers, throttle application, and the overall riding style between the different bikes is monumentally different. Even if my corner speed improved I'd have to relearn everything else. Not to mention the added fun factor of actually having power. I passed on the 1000 for now but could still get if I choose to. I just need to decide between the different options and consider what will be best. A good friend of mine just picked up a race prepped 250, so getting one myself would allow us to compete on a level playing field.

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 07:47 AM
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I would definitely try to jump on his 250 and take it out for a session or 2 and see what you think! Then you'll know for SURE! ;)

The tracks also play a role in that too.

Like I've done my share of SuperMoto too. And on normal tracks, I hate it... Just isn't fast enough. And high corner speeds scare me ;) lol

BUT, when I've gotten to ride on some real SuperMoto course with some street/clay combinations, that was some of the most fun I've ever had on a bike!

So definitely something to consider too! ;)


"at 8k i often get the tire to slip a bit(kinda like stoner in motogp) when i start to get on the throttle"
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 09:45 AM
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I would definitely try to jump on his 250 and take it out for a session or 2 and see what you think! Then you'll know for SURE! ;)

The tracks also play a role in that too.

Like I've done my share of SuperMoto too. And on normal tracks, I hate it... Just isn't fast enough. And high corner speeds scare me ;) lol

BUT, when I've gotten to ride on some real SuperMoto course with some street/clay combinations, that was some of the most fun I've ever had on a bike!

So definitely something to consider too! ;)

That's where all the fun is!



I can also agree with Niner to a some degree but not entirely about the configuration of the track. Obviously if the track you will be visiting often has lots of 'straights' then it may be boring on a small-er bike. If it's a track full of corners then you will have more fun if your preference is to ride something with less power and requires more corner speed.

Personally I prefer tight/technical tracks with lots of corner speeds which dictates my liking to smaller, lighter bikes.

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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-05-2014, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the insight guys. My local track is Miller Motorsports and depending on the configuration I'd say its pretty technical. The perimeter and full course have a massive straight, but they only have either of those configurations once or twice a year on track days. Typically its divided into an East or West track. If we get race licenses im not entirely sure what configuration they will use, but I would assume a smaller track for the 250 class.


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Just buy a track bike already set up that comes with spare parts and go get seat time on the track. I leave the rest up to you (make/model/cc's etc...) Don't spend more than 3500-4 grand for a fully set up bike. You will crash it if you get into this so don't worry about beauty.
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-06-2014, 04:32 AM
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If its a technical track, then you'd probably want to stick with a lighter bike. A 600 or 750 at most.

I know we're on a Honda forum here, but I would even recommend looking at used GSXR750's 05/06 in the same price range. This will give you the balance you need for a flickable yet powerful bike without being too heavy.

Of course, the best option is to have both a 600cc and a liter bike.. like Niner does (lucky bastard lol).

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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 10:29 AM
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How do people logically progress? Start small, work your way up. If you are just having fun, do what you want. If you want to be as fast as possible as quick as possible, start smaller. Learn how to maintain extreme corner speed, then if you want to graduate later you'll be fast everywhere and not just the straights. It's a racetrack for christ sakes, where's the fun in only being fast in a straight line?

If you graduate to racing, you will race only liter bikes and I can assure you they'll be fast in the turns.
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 12:38 PM
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If you graduate to racing, you will race only liter bikes and I can assure you they'll be fast in the turns.

You can race other classes...
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-07-2014, 10:01 PM
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You can race other classes...
600s can class up, 1000s can't class down. I'm not following you.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-08-2014, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TribalCBR06 View Post
If its a technical track, then you'd probably want to stick with a lighter bike.

Of course, the best option is to have both a small HP bike and a big HP bike.. like Niner does (lucky bastard lol).
I slightly fixed that for you, but I agree with the general concept.


Also, Niner is not lucky because he has multiple bikes. Anyone can do that. What he does get to do on regular basis, is lucky and I'm very jealous.

Quote:
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How do people logically progress? Start small, work your way up. If you are just having fun, do what you want. If you want to be as fast as possible as quick as possible, start smaller. Learn how to maintain extreme corner speed, then if you want to graduate later you'll be fast everywhere and not just the straights. It's a racetrack for christ sakes, where's the fun in only being fast in a straight line?

If you graduate to racing, you will race only liter bikes and I can assure you they'll be fast in the turns.
1st paragraph, I agree.

Last sentence can be taken out of context and cause confusion, as you did not specify which bike you were referring to racing against the liter bikes.

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You can race other classes...
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roach954 View Post
600s can class up, 1000s can't class down. I'm not following you.
In each class there is usually a sub division to split up and make things a little more competitive. This is a brief overview, it may be different from one race org to another but generally I've seen three sub-divisions in every class.


Supersport = Less modifications, closer competition because as it relies more on rider skill than the bike/power/$$.

Superbike = More modifications, bike/power play a bigger role in your ability to be competitive.

Unlimited = Money is no object, lots of 'custom' parts/modifications, and usually it's the fastest/most sponsored guys on track.


As for race classes:

Ultralight: Hawk GT650, EX250/500, CBR250/500, etc.
Lightweight: SV650, EX650, Monster 696, etc.
Middleweight: 600's
Heavyweight: 750 - 1000's
Grand Prix: any two smoker that wakes you up promptly at 6AM trying to warm up their engines.
Motards: any wannabe dirt bike that can whoolie.
Side cars: anything that leaks oil all over the track so we can sit on hot pit for hours in the sun while they clean it up.

Hope that makes sense.

LRRS/CCS AM #521

makct04 is offline  
post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 03:39 PM
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Smaller bikes are also cheaper to run. If you're running a 1000 and hammering the brakes and gas like you describe you will burn through tires very quickly.

Also there are enough guys out there on 1000s parking it in the corners and hammering it on the straights. Don't be one of those guys, get a smaller bike, learn to carry momentum, and then when you do eventually start tracking a 1000 you'll have all the tools in the toolbox to go fast.

That said, sounds like a good deal for the CBR1000 as long as it is relatively clean and straight.

WMRC #386
drewnabobber is offline  
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