What do you usually work on? - 600RR.net
Trackdays Privateers and Professionals
Sponsored by: MOTO-D Racing

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 114
Thanks: 3
Thanked 33 Times in 20 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
What do you usually work on?

When you guys go to track days what skills or techniques do you find yourself constantly working on? Does it vary each time out or are there things that you are constantly working on and improving?
misti hurst is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-11-2015, 01:59 AM
Maynard
 
JohnDoubleR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: CO
Posts: 7,033
Thanks: 1,162
Thanked 903 Times in 798 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Not crashing, and lines. And not accidentally peeing on my suit when I take a teetee break.

2W1R

2012 M1100 EVO
JohnDoubleR is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-11-2015, 04:08 AM
BOTM Winner 07/16
 
rinonz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NZ
Posts: 880
Thanks: 3
Thanked 182 Times in 154 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
lap times..

which generally can only be improved if I get my lines and body position correct.
rinonz is offline  
 
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 02:04 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
FightingChance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,043
Thanks: 0
Thanked 700 Times in 601 Posts
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
Entering turns while going fast is a skill that takes a long time to build up. You can enter corners at high speed as long as you have the confidence to do so; I see riders in general struggle with this over other skills. I also work on this (late braking is sort of my best skill and where I pickup time on the track)
FightingChance is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 02:55 PM
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 101
Thanks: 5
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I usually ride with a buddy. We are about the same pace, so we try to alternate lead and follow between laps if traffic allows. Otherwise, we do lead or follow for the whole session. After each session we give each other advice on what we noticed about the other person; ie you're overbraking, there's a better line, you can carry more corner speed, body position is bad on turn 10, etc. The next session out, we work on what the other rider noticed.

So I guess it varies each time. However the same topics always come up for me - corner speed and over braking.
phase12rr is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 114
Thanks: 3
Thanked 33 Times in 20 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDoubleR View Post
Not crashing, and lines. And not accidentally peeing on my suit when I take a teetee break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinonz View Post
lap times..

which generally can only be improved if I get my lines and body position correct.
The first two answers talk about working on improving your lines which is certainly a valuable skill. How do you go about improving your lines around a track? Does it just come with the repetition throughout the day or are there specific things you do in order to help you recall and remember what line you wish to take?
misti hurst is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 03:14 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
FightingChance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,043
Thanks: 0
Thanked 700 Times in 601 Posts
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
Repetition and experimentation. You know it when you blow a line or when you choose a different line that cuts down on time.

Having a control rider or faster friend illustrate why they do what they do on an overhead track map between sessions is helpful too, if they are good at teaching.
FightingChance is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-12-2015, 03:21 PM
BOTM Winner 07/16
 
rinonz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NZ
Posts: 880
Thanks: 3
Thanked 182 Times in 154 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
There are generally some really fast guys that will pass you each session.

Trying to follow them may end badly, but if you can talk to them after the session they may remember following you and can point out if you're doing something wrong (wrong line, wrong body position, wrong braking point)
rinonz is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-13-2015, 02:13 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
crashkhanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC 28217
Posts: 3,968
Thanks: 449
Thanked 331 Times in 285 Posts
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Always working to improve on the following: Increasing vision; relaxing hand grip; carrying more cornerspeed, slow/smooth hands, and knee-to-knee tank transitions.

'07 CBR600RR Track-Only Demon!
Nesba/N2/PRE/TPM/Roger Lyle "A" Group // CCS #306

'08 GSXR 600 Blue ~ Current Bike
'07 Yamaha R6 Blue ~ SOLD
'08 CBR600RR Silver ~ SOLD
'06 Yamaha R6 Black ~ SOLD
'08 GSXR 600 TrackOnly ~ SOLD
'08 GSXR 600 White ~ SOLD
'08 Yamaha R6 ~ SOLD
'07 GSXR 750 ~ SOLD
'12 Aprilia RSV4 Factory ~ Crashed/SOLD
'07 CBR600RR Black ~ SOLD
'09 CBR600RR Phoenix TrackOnly ~SOLD
'09 CBR600RR Red/Black ~SOLD
'07 CBR600RR Blue/Silver ~SOLD
crashkhanman is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-13-2015, 02:36 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
cbrkat28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,991
Thanks: 335
Thanked 396 Times in 376 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I haven't had a trackday yet but a lot of the stuff posted thus far can, and arguably should be, practiced all the time...I work on body positioning and weight shifting (like pushing on the peg opposite of the turn) all the time so it turns into muscle memory.

1971 Volkswagen 1302 (02.19.2015 - )

For Sale:
https://www.600rr.net/vb/153-07-13-rr...0rr-c-abs.html
cbrkat28 is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-14-2015, 04:01 PM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
zieper41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: new jersey
Posts: 545
Thanks: 12
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
I spent my last season working on body position and smooth throttle control. Unfortunately I didn't get the feeling I wanted until my last session of my last trackday! This winter is killing me!! With that alone though I was able to bump up a class and work my way through new lines and corners. Its all about finding that comfort zone!
zieper41 is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-14-2015, 04:14 PM
Knee Dragger
 
erick1670's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 156
Thanks: 3
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
After a long time off, like winter. I always start to work on my mechanics; bracking, throttle application, and body positioning. In that order. After 2-3 session, I start working, on corner entry (trail braking) and corner exit, witch is my weakness and I got some bad habits when I had the 1000RR.
It takes me 2 trackdays to be at my usual level.

CBR 600RR 07 (track)
Aprilia RSV4 13 R (street/track)
# 707
erick1670 is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2015, 03:35 AM
Pocketbike Racer
 
overdraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Victoria Canada
Posts: 356
Thanks: 2
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
braking braking braking braking braking.... i suck at braking.
overdraft is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2015, 04:34 AM
Premium Member
 
Soponcio Virtual's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Madrid - Spain
Posts: 1,641
Thanks: 137
Thanked 271 Times in 216 Posts
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Body positioning and choosing and respecting references for entering corners... And improving them according to lap times.



Honda CBR600RR 2003 - Gone! (the blond)

Honda CBR600RR 2007 - On the road! (the brunette)
Soponcio Virtual is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2015, 01:57 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
03cbr-rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate, NY
Posts: 5,702
Thanks: 213
Thanked 605 Times in 479 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
I don't know, pretty much everything. Looks like there is one thing that sticks out for most of us. I think braking is probably the most worked on thing that I do as well. Different things to work on for each bike though, because they really don't ride the same way.
03cbr-rider is offline  
post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2015, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 114
Thanks: 3
Thanked 33 Times in 20 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingChance View Post
Repetition and experimentation. You know it when you blow a line or when you choose a different line that cuts down on time.

Having a control rider or faster friend illustrate why they do what they do on an overhead track map between sessions is helpful too, if they are good at teaching.
I like that you suggest experimentation because I think a lot of riders get in the habit of just repetition and they tend to run the same lines over and over again without really knowing if they are the best lines or not. Experimentation allows you to check out different lines, entries/exits to see what works best but it also gives you a good understanding of what to expect if you accidentally end up off line. How many times have you been surprised when you accidentally ran wide or over a bump that you didn't know was there...if you experimented and learned the entire track from different perspectives you might not be surprised when you end up taking a different line, for whatever reason.

What are some ways that you can intentionally check out the track and experiment with different lines, and then once you find a line that works, how do you go about remembering it?
misti hurst is offline  
post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-19-2015, 02:39 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
FightingChance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,043
Thanks: 0
Thanked 700 Times in 601 Posts
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
Hmm, good question. Willow Springs International Raceway was my first track, and is a very large and extremely fast track, which lends itself to a specific kind of experimenting, in turns. Some of the turns are so long that you have time to do things like change body position or change throttle, or adjust your line mid turn. These long turns allowed me to zero in on some bad habits I was having and change them. Of course, one does this without riding at 'the edge' so you have some play room.

In tighter, smaller tracks, you get to experiencing much more in the way of fast transitions (chicanes, etc.), high technical pieces of the track like bus stops (near 90 degree super slow turns) and off camber turns.

Committing to memory is sort of automatic; you rack up the laps and memory combines with muscle memory, and you start to go harder on each turn, deeper with each braking zone.

Riding with someone of similar or better speed will very quickly expose any wrong line you are doing; they'll simply take off at some point and at that time you can know that there is improvement to be done. Other times you may close the distance, and know that it is you that has the better way through on that part of the track.
FightingChance is offline  
post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-20-2015, 10:42 AM
Moto GP Racer
 
Rad Rage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Under Consideration
Posts: 5,599
Thanks: 811
Thanked 902 Times in 790 Posts
Feedback Score: 3 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingChance View Post
Entering turns while going fast is a skill that takes a long time to build up. You can enter corners at high speed as long as you have the confidence to do so; I see riders in general struggle with this over other skills.
Truth, this right here takes so much time and I sometimes find myself regressing and then working up to a level I already attained.....

2011 CBR600RR 'X-Ray' Build Thread
https://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=294795


Co-President of Team46

"My bike is too fast for the track" Ubercool ZX-14R rider.
Rad Rage is offline  
post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-20-2015, 10:48 AM
Moto GP Racer
 
cbrkat28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,991
Thanks: 335
Thanked 396 Times in 376 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad Rage View Post
Truth, this right here takes so much time and I sometimes find myself regressing and then working up to a level I already attained.....
I have trouble with this also, towards the top of the list.

1971 Volkswagen 1302 (02.19.2015 - )

For Sale:
https://www.600rr.net/vb/153-07-13-rr...0rr-c-abs.html
cbrkat28 is offline  
post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 01:12 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
crashkhanman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC 28217
Posts: 3,968
Thanks: 449
Thanked 331 Times in 285 Posts
Feedback Score: 9 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrkat28 View Post
I have trouble with this also, towards the top of the list.
Increasing your vision/modifying your visual references through the turn and slow/smooth hands will help with this. Good luck!

'07 CBR600RR Track-Only Demon!
Nesba/N2/PRE/TPM/Roger Lyle "A" Group // CCS #306

'08 GSXR 600 Blue ~ Current Bike
'07 Yamaha R6 Blue ~ SOLD
'08 CBR600RR Silver ~ SOLD
'06 Yamaha R6 Black ~ SOLD
'08 GSXR 600 TrackOnly ~ SOLD
'08 GSXR 600 White ~ SOLD
'08 Yamaha R6 ~ SOLD
'07 GSXR 750 ~ SOLD
'12 Aprilia RSV4 Factory ~ Crashed/SOLD
'07 CBR600RR Black ~ SOLD
'09 CBR600RR Phoenix TrackOnly ~SOLD
'09 CBR600RR Red/Black ~SOLD
'07 CBR600RR Blue/Silver ~SOLD
crashkhanman is offline  
post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 01:19 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
cbrkat28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,991
Thanks: 335
Thanked 396 Times in 376 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashkhanman View Post
Increasing your vision/modifying your visual references through the turn and slow/smooth hands will help with this. Good luck!
Thanks man, I've been getting better at using the rear brake to stabilize just before and a couple times while turning but the intersections around here usually have gravel or debris right where my line should be and it's not always visible before the turn.

1971 Volkswagen 1302 (02.19.2015 - )

For Sale:
https://www.600rr.net/vb/153-07-13-rr...0rr-c-abs.html
cbrkat28 is offline  
post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 114
Thanks: 3
Thanked 33 Times in 20 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingChance View Post
Hmm, good question. Willow Springs International Raceway was my first track, and is a very large and extremely fast track, which lends itself to a specific kind of experimenting, in turns. Some of the turns are so long that you have time to do things like change body position or change throttle, or adjust your line mid turn. These long turns allowed me to zero in on some bad habits I was having and change them. Of course, one does this without riding at 'the edge' so you have some play room.

In tighter, smaller tracks, you get to experiencing much more in the way of fast transitions (chicanes, etc.), high technical pieces of the track like bus stops (near 90 degree super slow turns) and off camber turns.

Committing to memory is sort of automatic; you rack up the laps and memory combines with muscle memory, and you start to go harder on each turn, deeper with each braking zone.

Riding with someone of similar or better speed will very quickly expose any wrong line you are doing; they'll simply take off at some point and at that time you can know that there is improvement to be done. Other times you may close the distance, and know that it is you that has the better way through on that part of the track.
What if you took three laps out of your day to focus on experimenting by riding the inside line, outside line and middle. What kinds of things could you learn from something like that?

And what if you took time after each ride to DRAW the track? Could that help commit lines to memory faster and more efficiently?
misti hurst is offline  
post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 114
Thanks: 3
Thanked 33 Times in 20 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingChance View Post
Entering turns while going fast is a skill that takes a long time to build up. You can enter corners at high speed as long as you have the confidence to do so; I see riders in general struggle with this over other skills. I also work on this (late braking is sort of my best skill and where I pickup time on the track)
What are the things that will give you confidence to enter turns quickly? What do you need to be sure that you will be able to do?...
misti hurst is offline  
post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 03:08 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
FightingChance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,043
Thanks: 0
Thanked 700 Times in 601 Posts
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by misti hurst View Post
What if you took three laps out of your day to focus on experimenting by riding the inside line, outside line and middle. What kinds of things could you learn from something like that?

And what if you took time after each ride to DRAW the track? Could that help commit lines to memory faster and more efficiently?
I don't think something so structured would be particularly helpful, because while lines will vary the actual difference is about 25% of the width of the track at any particular point; there are lots of places on the track considered 'BFE' and generally avoided.

An overhead map of the track that you and other riders can draw on is extremely helpful, and if the track org is good they will place apex, braking and turn in markers on the track.
FightingChance is offline  
post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 03:12 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
FightingChance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,043
Thanks: 0
Thanked 700 Times in 601 Posts
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by misti hurst View Post
What are the things that will give you confidence to enter turns quickly? What do you need to be sure that you will be able to do?...
Daring and experience. It is a trip to feel how much deeper you can dig in and how much faster you can ride a motorcycle than you think you can; street speeds can't even compare (or rather, it would be deathly dangerous to ride like this on the street). Edging your way towards the envelope of your own riding ability allows you to grow; just put in the seat time and you will experience change.
FightingChance is offline  
post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-23-2015, 06:48 PM
AMA Supersport Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Phx
Posts: 966
Thanks: 10
Thanked 199 Times in 174 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I work on different things, whatever I feel needs the most improvement. Body position is always on my mind. Last weekend at Arroyo I mainly worked on braking and body position to keep the rear wheel on the ground and stop feeling so loose like I'm fishtailing. At chuckwalla I usually work on my lines. At indy I just work...such a technical track lol.

'06 F4i- Yoshimura RS-3C, Racetech springs and valves, Ohlin's rear shock, steel brake lines, 520 conversion. 87k miles and counting.....
'08 600RR- Stripped trackbike. CRG shorty brake lever, goodridge front brake lines
'15 1000RR- weekend toy
------Disclaimer: I can't spell------
bored&stroked is offline  
post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 114
Thanks: 3
Thanked 33 Times in 20 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingChance View Post
I don't think something so structured would be particularly helpful, because while lines will vary the actual difference is about 25% of the width of the track at any particular point; there are lots of places on the track considered 'BFE' and generally avoided.

An overhead map of the track that you and other riders can draw on is extremely helpful, and if the track org is good they will place apex, braking and turn in markers on the track.
Agreed that the ideal racing lines don't vary that much and there are lots of places on the track that are considered best avoided, however, what if you accidentally find yourself out wide in a corner that you've never been before, or riding up on curbing you've never felt before. Wouldn't you have a bit more confidence if you knew exactly what to expect? Do you think you might be able to get back on the ideal line a little bit quicker if you knew what it felt like to ride up the inside or attack a corner from the very outside of the track? Experimenting and checking out the track from different vantage points can give you confidence and can help you see or notice things that you may not have seen before.

Misti
misti hurst is offline  
post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-26-2015, 04:41 PM
Moto GP Racer
 
FightingChance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,043
Thanks: 0
Thanked 700 Times in 601 Posts
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
Reaction to emergency situations is a critical skill to have, yes (emergency braking is not focused on enough in my opinion, in general). So keeping your head on straight can mean the difference between a silly off track excursion and a sad dumping.

Just be careful of the dust - parts of the track that don't see tires often can often be quite a bit more slick than the racing line which has plenty of rubber down on it. Had some fun times going over candy stripes the day after rain had washed them clean of their grip
FightingChance is offline  
post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 03-19-2015, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 114
Thanks: 3
Thanked 33 Times in 20 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingChance View Post
Reaction to emergency situations is a critical skill to have, yes (emergency braking is not focused on enough in my opinion, in general). So keeping your head on straight can mean the difference between a silly off track excursion and a sad dumping.

Just be careful of the dust - parts of the track that don't see tires often can often be quite a bit more slick than the racing line which has plenty of rubber down on it. Had some fun times going over candy stripes the day after rain had washed them clean of their grip
Yes, parts of the track are more slick and dusty or gritty than others, hence the reason to check out the track from different vantage points at a slower speed and find the areas that are safe as well as the ones that are not so safe! Its always best to know what to expect if you run wide in a corner or end up running over the candy stripes or if you have to pass someone deep on the inside of the turn.
misti hurst is offline  
post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-15-2015, 09:44 PM
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 111
Thanks: 1
Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
I try to break the track down into sections and focus on 1 or 2 sections per day (assuming this is trackdays/practice). That way you don't get overwhelmed and you can use a tiny bit of your focus in between sections to reflect on what you should change. If you try to work on everything everywhere all the time it is overwhelming and will actually hold you back.

Figure out what part of the track is most important for the lap time and start there. This is usually the faster corners on the track where making a mistake will really hurt your lap time. Once you are confident through there, find another section, such as the last corner before a long straight, and focus on that. By breaking things down you will find that you are able to ride the track on muscle memory, and that frees up your mental capacity to make further refinements to your lines, throttle control and braking.

WMRC #386
drewnabobber is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 600RR.net forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome