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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Scraping pegs

So far I have been to two track days and I'm now to the point of getting comfortable with really leaning into turns and hanging off the bike. Problem is when I do that I scrape the pegs and bike becomes unstable. Is it time for rear sets? I feel like I slow everyone up in turns because of this.
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 12:38 PM
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 04:37 PM
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You might want to have one of the coaches follow you and critique your body position also. I don't know if you are riding a 600RR or not, but they do have pretty good ground clearance. Another possibility, if you haven't already done this, is to make sure that the peg feelers on the bottom of the pegs have been removed. Is that what is touching down? Suspension also can play a major role in whether or not the bike is starting to touch down parts....in other words, suspension not set up correctly for your body/riding weight.

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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Well the pegs that are on it now are ebay specials from the previous owner, they might be longer than the stock pegs. I stick to the novice group for now and each time they have ridden behind me they say my body position is good. I probably should have my suspension adjusted to dial it in better since I'm riding on the track more often.
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 06:39 PM
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 08:29 PM
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Next track day, talk to one or more of the coaches and explain what is going on with dragging the pegs. Have them follow you some more, paying close attention to your body position and how close the pegs are to touching down. The more that you get off the bike, the less lean angle you need to make the same corner at the same speed. You may in fact need to get rearsets to bring the peg up, but more than likely I'm going to say it's body position and/or suspension.

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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 09:09 PM
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Funny I was on my way here to start the exact same topic. I was at Calabogie this week and scraping pegs too. My knee pucks are clean as a whistle though.

My body position could use some improvement but overall I don't think there's anything majorly wrong with it. I have a short 28" inseam though and my track suit seems to be a little restrictive in the crotch area which makes it a little hard to spread my knees... thinking that might be a contributor.
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 11:15 PM
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Besides the obvious, aftermarket rearsets have a host of advantages (from a performance riding standpoint) over the perfectly fine but restrictive OEM rearsets.

- Because the pegs don't fold, they are solid; so they will never bounce or move around under your feet and you will have a more solid connection to the bike
- The shift rod and mechanism gets replaced with parts that have finer bearings and tolerances, making shifts much more positive and removes slop from the whole motion
- The position is both up and back which is better for body position when going through turns at higher Gs then you would see on the street
- Usually, the ability to switch to GP shift
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 11:22 PM
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If you're slow through the corner, but you're dragging pegs your body position isn't as good as you think it is. That's it. No ifs, ands or buts. If you're dragging peg but not knee, again body position is off.

Aftermarket rearsets are great for shorter riders to help get their knees into the position on the tank which in turn makes body position shifts easier.

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AF4iK View Post
Funny I was on my way here to start the exact same topic. I was at Calabogie this week and scraping pegs too. My knee pucks are clean as a whistle though.

My body position could use some improvement but overall I don't think there's anything majorly wrong with it. I have a short 28" inseam though and my track suit seems to be a little restrictive in the crotch area which makes it a little hard to spread my knees... thinking that might be a contributor.
How tall are you, your knee's should be a little bit less than level with the tank so you can move off the seat which will help open your inside leg.

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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 09:13 AM
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I just got to the point of dragging the stock pegs too at race speeds. I'm short and dragging a knee comes a little harder. Saying that, I am really dragging long before the pegs hit, so if you are not, there's probably an issue with body position. Remember, leaning the bike is something you try to minimize via body mass getting off the bike. You are safer at less lean angles at the same speed. Of course, as speed increases, so will lean angle. Moving rear sets up and back will help the problem some. Remember, aftermarket rearsets usually don't fold up and give, so when you do finally hit them solidly, you will unload the tires and greatly increase the risk of a lowside.
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 11:16 AM
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Here's a video that shows my body position. Not my fastest lap but this is the best angle I have. It's the full 20 min session. I usually scrape the right peg on turn 12b, sometimes on 6 and sometimes on 19 (track map here). Constructive criticism appreciated.



Btw sorry for hijacking OP but I figure we will get similar feedback

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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AF4iK View Post
Here's a video that shows my body position. Not my fastest lap but this is the best angle I have. It's the full 20 min session. I usually scrape the right peg on turn 12b, sometimes on 6 and sometimes on 19 (track map here). Constructive criticism appreciated.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfkFprOrkwg

Btw sorry for hijacking OP but I figure we will get similar feedback
Here's my $.02 on both you and the OP: get off the bike farther and you'll stop dragging pegs.

AF, your butt position looks pretty decent (start with the crack of your ass on the edge of the seat) but if you look at your head as you move from the middle of the seat to the edge, it stays directly over the tank. You need to move your entire body over to the side almost so the inside of your elbows are laying against the tank and you can draw a straight line down your back to the edge of the seat. One of my instructors years ago said to put my head where the mirror would be if that helps with visualizing.

It feels weird at first but once you get the hang of your whole body being off to the side it'll help your cornering.

Take the advise for what it is, just trying to help.

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 02:30 PM
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^Exactly ^
The mass of your torso and head along with the distance from the bike's center of gravity means that your upper body has more of an effect than your butt. The "head where the mirror goes" trick is a great tool to help you visualize where you need to be. It will come natural after a few weekends. If you have the flexibility to get your head lower, that just adds to the effect (i.e. Marquez). One thing to help (if you are not doing this already) is to hold the grip like a screwdriver and it will naturally put your elbow in a comfortable and low position.
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 07:20 PM
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Thanks guys, appreciated. I do try to get my torso lower but what I feel on the bike and what I see on video afterward is often totally different lol. I'll have to work on this some more next time out.

That being said, I see some other riders in front of me sometimes who also ride a bit crossed up yet still get their knee down. Corner speed is similar and in some cases I'm even catching them. So I suspect that bike/body geometry has something to do with it too.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 08:02 PM
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Thanks guys, appreciated. I do try to get my torso lower but what I feel on the bike and what I see on video afterward is often totally different lol. I'll have to work on this some more next time out.

That being said, I see some other riders in front of me sometimes who also ride a bit crossed up yet still get their knee down. Corner speed is similar and in some cases I'm even catching them. So I suspect that bike/body geometry has something to do with it too.
Your comments are pretty much the same as everyone says, including myself, which is why it's so nice to video yourself on a day.

As far as others go, you're right, some people are far more crossed up and still make good time. Thing is you have to do what makes you feel comfortable but to a point. Two track school days ago I had an instructor tell me I need to put the end of the peg in the middle of my foot and pivot around that which did NOT fit my style at all and I struggled but to pass to the next "level" the instructor had to OK me. I ended up having to find another instructor to "pass" me on because they weren't going to originally; just could not get smooth with pivoting on my pegs that way.

Though some of his other teachings did land, though. The next time I went the next instructor said that yeah, last guys teachings went always working for everyone and what I was doing (lined up with the seat, balls of my feet solidly on the pegs) was a great form. I was far faster and far smoother that way as well.

Just saying what may work for someone else may not work for you but the body position I am describing is pretty universal for getting solid lean angles. Give it a try, maybe watch a few riding videos and see what others are showing.

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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 11:44 PM
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Your comments are pretty much the same as everyone says, including myself, which is why it's so nice to video yourself on a day.

As far as others go, you're right, some people are far more crossed up and still make good time. Thing is you have to do what makes you feel comfortable but to a point. Two track school days ago I had an instructor tell me I need to put the end of the peg in the middle of my foot and pivot around that which did NOT fit my style at all and I struggled but to pass to the next "level" the instructor had to OK me. I ended up having to find another instructor to "pass" me on because they weren't going to originally; just could not get smooth with pivoting on my pegs that way.

Though some of his other teachings did land, though. The next time I went the next instructor said that yeah, last guys teachings went always working for everyone and what I was doing (lined up with the seat, balls of my feet solidly on the pegs) was a great form. I was far faster and far smoother that way as well.

Just saying what may work for someone else may not work for you but the body position I am describing is pretty universal for getting solid lean angles. Give it a try, maybe watch a few riding videos and see what others are showing.
Solid advice, makes sense. Thanks for the input! Looking forward to next track day...
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 01:41 AM
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Thanks guys, appreciated. I do try to get my torso lower but what I feel on the bike and what I see on video afterward is often totally different lol. I'll have to work on this some more next time out.

That being said, I see some other riders in front of me sometimes who also ride a bit crossed up yet still get their knee down. Corner speed is similar and in some cases I'm even catching them. So I suspect that bike/body geometry has something to do with it too.

Exaggerate the body position chances are you'll feel it's excessive but its not and you'll be right in the perfect position. Another thing is to keep your head down and to the inside of the corners, which I find easier to do by getting into the tuck in the long straights and as I come into the corners I don't stand tall on the body I just get my head off the tank above the windscreen slightly and move my whole body over. If you stand tall during braking it's going to take longer for you to bring your body down, if you even do bring it back down since you'll be doing a million other things.

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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 01:45 AM
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Here's a good video on body position.

Your arms should be loose entirely so your front tire can track the corner. Now that being said Body position videos like this are a guideline to understanding the fundamentals of going faster through a corner. When you understand the purpose of what you're doing you'll end up developing your own style to ride the bike fastest for you. No two rider is the same. Looking at MotoGP for example compare Rossi, Pedrosa, Marquez, Lorenzo. They're all fast and they all ride different. Learn the fundamentals and adapt to what you feel comfortable with. Comfort means less thinking less thinking means more focus, focus bring speed, speed brings the lap times.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 01:47 AM
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Exaggerate the body position chances are you'll feel it's excessive but its not and you'll be right in the perfect position. Another thing is to keep your head down and to the inside of the corners, which I find easier to do by getting into the tuck in the long straights and as I come into the corners I don't stand tall on the body I just get my head off the tank above the windscreen slightly and move my whole body over. If you stand tall during braking it's going to take longer for you to bring your body down, if you even do bring it back down since you'll be doing a million other things.
Thanks man that's a nice tip. I definitely want rear sets for straight aways as well. Reason being that with the OEM pegs I can't scooch back in the seat comfortably to get my head down. I feel like my feet are reaching forward as if I'm on a cruiser.
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 01:56 AM
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Rearsets are the always one of the first investments I make on a bike. I hate oem rearsets because of my height. Aftermarket I can get my knees up on the tank to make moving around easier, and in the tuck I can make myself smaller and still move around

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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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I do try to get my torso lower but what I feel on the bike and what I see on video afterward is often totally different lol.
I feel the same way about this. I guess I don't have the flexibility that I think I do.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 05:48 AM
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I feel the same way about this. I guess I don't have the flexibility that I think I do.
Scoot back on your seat. If you can bend 90 degrees at the waist you can manage to tuck yourself it's not a flexibility issue. It's a you don't have space because you're crowding the tank. You can't tuck all the way if you're on the tank. If you scoot back you'll give yourself space to get your knee locked into the tank properly and the space you need to drop your upper body.

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by AF4iK View Post
Here's a video that shows my body position. Not my fastest lap but this is the best angle I have. It's the full 20 min session. I usually scrape the right peg on turn 12b, sometimes on 6 and sometimes on 19 (track map here). Constructive criticism appreciated.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfkFprOrkwg

Btw sorry for hijacking OP but I figure we will get similar feedback
This isn't about body position but i bet i can cut 3-4 seconds off your lap times right now.

Into temptation stay to the inside of the first part of the turn, swing wide in the middle towards the outside cones then square off the turn doing up the hill. On a 600 you should be braking until marker 1.

Into the bowl section again stay tight to the first part of the corner and stay straight. look at the first part of that corner on the inside, you will see where the grass is a bit torn up. thats where you want to be. it's almost the same approach as temptation.

You are farrrrrr too wide going into both those corners.


Watch these lines. they are closer to what you need to be at.
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 12:54 PM
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This isn't about body position but i bet i can cut 3-4 seconds off your lap times right now.

Into temptation stay to the inside of the first part of the turn, swing wide in the middle towards the outside cones then square off the turn doing up the hill. On a 600 you should be braking until marker 1.

Into the bowl section again stay tight to the first part of the corner and stay straight. look at the first part of that corner on the inside, you will see where the grass is a bit torn up. thats where you want to be. it's almost the same approach as temptation.

You are farrrrrr too wide going into both those corners.


Watch these lines. they are closer to what you need to be at.
Thanks for the tips. That was my first time at Bogie trying to figure out the lines. Is that you in the vid?
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 01:10 PM
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It cuts out just before I pass for second place.


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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 09:07 PM
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@Crashcris that was an awesome vid. I wish I had seen how you passed him cause you had him on several corners since you brake better.

OP work on your body position as has been mentioned over and over. Unless the bike is lowered you have some serious, potentially dangerous lean angle.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by YG27 View Post
Scoot back on your seat. If you can bend 90 degrees at the waist you can manage to tuck yourself it's not a flexibility issue. It's a you don't have space because you're crowding the tank. You can't tuck all the way if you're on the tank. If you scoot back you'll give yourself space to get your knee locked into the tank properly and the space you need to drop your upper body.
It's one of those things I need to work on. My street riding habits have a tendency to creep in at the track. I've gotten better since my first track day at keeping my head down but I'm not where I want to be yet.


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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-05-2016, 11:50 PM
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It's one of those things I need to work on. My street riding habits have a tendency to creep in at the track. I've gotten better since my first track day at keeping my head down but I'm not where I want to be yet.


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As we said to AF look at where your head and upper body is in that picture, your heads should be completely off the side and about where your mirror should be. You're getting there and once you get the hang of it riding fast will be SO much easier it's almost like cheating.

Keep up the good work. Most if the track instruction will translate to the street, FYI. Don't always look at them as two different styles.

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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by digdah View Post
@Crashcris that was an awesome vid. I wish I had seen how you passed him cause you had him on several corners since you brake better.

OP work on your body position as has been mentioned over and over. Unless the bike is lowered you have some serious, potentially dangerous lean angle.

I am actually behind the camera guy. I pass the camera guy and get within half a second of winning.
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