Is it possible to be at 109% Throttle? - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Is it possible to be at 109% Throttle?

...With Bazzaz, IT IS!

Apparently, when i hooked up my wires 'n chit, i turned the bike ON, (engine off) plugged in the Bazzaz and fired up the software to look at the map. lo and behold, the first thing i see is Throttle Position: 109%.

"huh...!"

i pull back on that throttle, and it slowly moves DOWN to around 49%

"HUH...!"

I call Bazzaz and tell them what i encountered, we verify the wires on the loom...

and they want me to send in my unit for testing.

...god damn it.

Wisconsin -> California is a LONG time to send a package

no i'm NDA-ing this chit. i wonder if i should include the harness as well.

thoughts?

ccs907
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 06:17 PM
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Your the second one that had this problem.


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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 06:20 PM
Not right now chief, im in the f'ing zone
 
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It takes like 2-3 days to send something to cali, turnaround time should be about a week

Bungle in the Jungle!!!



Beep Beep m' Beep Beep YEAH!!!
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 06:29 PM
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Send it in. Do it for the 600rr.net peeps!

We will miss you Chenhan a.k.a Phatstud
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonelyRR View Post
Your the second one that had this problem.
Who was the first? I don't suppose they made a thread about it...

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrmag_rider View Post
Who was the first? I don't suppose they made a thread about it...
yeah it somewhere on here.


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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 12:42 AM
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maybe you had the bike in reverse? ;)
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 12:48 AM
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i got mine!! hope that dont happen to me!! good luck to u
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-15-2009, 12:50 AM
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throttle position sensor error some how? have you started the bike with it hooked up? maybe it will go "oh, so that's what zero is, ok" (if computers could talk)

don't know how all that works, just throwing ideas out there.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-15-2009, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
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no, the TPS operates normally as the bike starts just fine without it hooked up. because the Z-FI is telling the computer that it detects 100% throttle, under those conditions the engine will not start. this is a normal diagnostic/maintenance/troubleshooting function of the Honda ECU to dry out the cylinders in the event of a flood of the combustion chamber.

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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How it's supposed to work (theory of Operation):

ECU sends 5 VDC to the OEM TPS connector via a YELLOW(red) wire which connects to a orange wire on the bazzaz connector. bazzaz then runs a pass through wire (orange) to TPS. voltage is converted and sent down the Bazzaz Blue wire to the ZFI for monitoring and pass through, which is sent back down the line to the OEM Connector and sends that voltage to the ECU via a RED(yellow) wire. The OEM GREEN(brown) and Bazzaz Grey wires are ground and should have no voltage only continuity (which they do).

that's how it's supposed to work. here's what actually happening:

All 3 pins on Bazzaz male connector, (which feeds TPS return voltage to the ECU) when Bazzaz TPS harness is disconnected, from machine read 5.8 VDC. this includes the Feed voltage (which should be 5VDC) the return voltage (Should be 0.5 VDC) and the ground (Should be 0.0 at all times).

Conclusion:

The Bazzaz Z-FI Harness is supplying itself with it's own TPS return voltage, which is above the threshold of 0.5 to 4.7 VDC, thus causing the reading to seem to be above and beyond normal ability. since this is a passthrough circuit, the Honda ECU is confused as to why it's getting more voltage than it's sending, and thus, will not start.

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Last edited by ccs907; 11-18-2009 at 11:47 PM.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 11:50 PM
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I wish I had an answer for ya man.
I know that I'm not looking forward to taking all $2k of my dynojet stuff outta my bike just to do a bunch more wire running... hope Bazzaz gets back to you tomorrow with some help for ya!!
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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on the upside, the QS works! and the AFM is fault free.

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrmag_rider View Post
on the upside, the QS works! and the AFM is fault free.

Nice :)
But still the TC is what my man needs to keep the last crash you had, from happening again!!
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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...except it wont start due to the TPS voltage being so wildly off.

https://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=162302

Some help from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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SO, Del is going to ship me a new harness. He said he tested it and it was fine.

7 vdc in the cicuit is not fine. there must be stray voltage somewhere.

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
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Don't need the harness.

bad ground. works flawlessly.

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrmag_rider View Post
Don't need the harness.

bad ground. works flawlessly.

wierd.
So why is that harness even in there then?
So the first unit was fine then?

That sucks that you had to send the first one back before you were able to get it figured out though :/

Glad to hear you got er beat!!!
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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yeah,m the whole thing was just fine. where i had the ground wire for the box was on top of the engine where the PAIR valves were. apparently, the engine block is positively charged?

i donno... i mounted the ground wire to the R/R ground on the left side fairing stay/fusebox bracket and it works perfectly.

that's my only guess.

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrmag_rider View Post
yeah,m the whole thing was just fine. where i had the ground wire for the box was on top of the engine where the PAIR valves were. apparently, the engine block is positively charged?

i donno... i mounted the ground wire to the R/R ground on the left side fairing stay/fusebox bracket and it works perfectly.

that's my only guess.
weird that its positive charged.

I guess no pics of the install for us?
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-19-2009, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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do you really need any? i mean, this is really a plug and play kind of install. unplug this, plug that in, then the other one. the way they have the harnesses set up you'd be an idiot to hook up the wrong injector in the wrong order.

if the main harness has to be moved, you're doing it wrong. that's the idea!

foreword: know what you must do. if you want to make this painless, take the airbox off. this involves taking the ECU off, remove the upper injector connectors, remove the upper fuel rail line (may be pressurized a little, and the rail will have fuel in it so be prepared for spray and leaks), the IAT Sensor. i highly recommend taking the upper lid off (the one that gains you access to the air filter) to make removing the injector connectors easier. Use a #2 for all airbox lid screws. now remove the upper injector connectors. they can be stubborn so use a flat bladed screwdriver to help pry them off. do not rely on the prybar to do all the work, it's just there to help you budge them off. DO NOT PULL ON WIRES the clips that hold those wires into the connector are stupid small and will tear right out of them. always pull on the connector body! remove the top lid then the center cover. then use a #3 philips screwdriver to remove the Velocity Stacks. you wont be able to remove the bottom portion yet. there's a sensor affixed to the very bottom of the airbox that is impossible to reach by normal means. you can either take the hose off the sensor (which may break it, it's only plastic) or you can remove it, and, like i did, never reattach it again. it does not need to be attached there! it just makes for a big pain in the ass later on in life. then remove your PAIR valve line from the right side (if you still have that useless thing) and the Crank Case Ventilator tube from the front of the lower half. It's ok, you can pull a little, they give nicely. Other than that, stay tidy, plan your route before you execute. i've had to take off every connector at least 9 times to drive the point home. OH, and there is a LOT of **** on your bike you DON'T NEED. i have trimmed my bike down as best i could to make access easier and fit a little looser. i HIGHLY recommend ya'll do the same.

So my installation notes:

1: RPM is the IPG or Ignition Pulse Generator sensor. also commonly referred to as the Crank Position Sensor. it is on the right side of the engine and is a 2P Red connector.


2: VS Sensor connector is under a hood. peel that back to expose the 3P natural connector. it's a big one, can't miss it.

3: attach the ground wire to the frame. not the engine, the frame. or the neg. battery terminal. whatever, just don't attach it to the motor, k?


4: DO NOT forget to reattach the upper fuel rail. Please take your time putting everything back together. I know it can be hard to take your time when you're finishing up, but this is for your own good. the last thing you want to do is forget to reattach it, put everything back on, fire it up, have it pop off, kill on you, nuke your HOT motor with really flammable gasoline, and you standing there knowing what you forgot to do without a fire extinguisher watching your bike burn in the middle of the street (or in your garage which would probably be a whole lot worse).

5: Stay organized! Always keep in mind that the tank does rotate down, and it's a tight fit. make sure your fuel harness is always in the path you want it to be in. my personal suggestion for a path out of the motor is on the left side in front of the tank bolt IN FRONT OF the OEM harness. That way you can still use the clip stay on the tank for the OEM harness and route your Bazzaz harness along side of it. use zip ties.

6: Using the AFM on the stock exhaust manifold. HELL YES it can be done. HELL NO you don't have to buy the bazzaz steel O2 bung. you can get one from CarQuest or your favorite parts store (Advanced and Autozone dont's count) that sells exhaust stuff for less than $5. well that baby dead center where the three seams meet on the outside before the cat. a little more left of this would have been GREAT. this works though. barely. BTW, there's no good spot to attach the harness for the AFM to so i suggest zip tieing it to the ignition harnessas far away from the pipe as you can go. you could drill into the swingarm and mount it there... but i choose not to. though i was seriously considering it. only reason i did was because i didn't want to remove the tank completely just to fit a big drill in there. lazyness, but my method works so i win.


6: basically where you're going to have to at least be competant enough to get at:


7: General Idea of what it looks like under your tank.


8: When taking off the airbox DON'T BREAK THIS.


9: Vamp connector attached to Neutral sensor. tip it more inwards than i did though.


10: Main 12v power for the Box is a BLACK(brown) wire. it's also the rear running light wire.

ccs907

Last edited by ccs907; 11-19-2009 at 11:30 PM.
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