Auto tune AFR setup thread - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Auto tune AFR setup thread

Hey guys i called dyno today and got my auto tune AFR target fixed.

The stock map had 13.2:1, 13.4:1, 13.6:1 and 13.0:1 AFR on it and i was losing power after a few tunes.

Today i called dyno and they remoted in and fixed it. on my bike i have the PC5, secondary fuel module and autotune. My bikes an 06.

He ended up putting 13.2:1 AFR ratio across the board from 5% to 80% throttle position then 13.0:1 on 80% to 100%.

This has fixed my issue and i should be able to make custom maps easyer now.


here is the one before dynojet fixed it. I will have to make the other one





Here is the one dyno did. I am toying with 13.1 at 60% ill let u all know.


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Last edited by NaturalPhenomenon; 06-29-2013 at 02:55 AM.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 09:49 AM
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Fantastic thread, I'm very interested in AFR targets at the moment. Ive been testing different targets at the track and its getting very confusing.
one of the issues is Seat of the pants dyno sometimes does not agree with the GPS data I gather.
Another is the weather changes, The wind can affect speeds a fair bit, on top of that what about temperature changes, I find I'm running lean in the morning then richer as the day gets warmer so its hard changing maps and testing what is better.

What AF-R's are you guys all aiming for, is the old 13.1 usually going to be the best top end for most power?
why do people run richer or leaner in the lower throttle openings and RPM, whats the theory, if 13.1 is 'ideal' isn't this what we should be aiming for the whole time?

I'm personally only worried about racing, I guess a 'street' tune would be different. Finding information about what to run is hard, anyone in the know able to shed some light?
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Ill be putting the afr ratio dyno did for me today. Iv been tied up with issues lately.

What the guy at dyno told me 13.2 is across the board and at 80% and 100% go richer to 13.1 or 13.

The stock map i posted is garbage idk why it is layed out like that u will get jolts from when the secondary injectors turn on if u use it.

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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-08-2013, 09:22 AM
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Tuning is more complex than just punching in a target AF ratio. The engine's requirements changes depending on conditions. The dyno operator using 13.2-13.1 is playing it safe, not necessarily aiming for best peak power as it would be running on the ragged edge of safety. The most power is actually made close to stoich at 14.7, but it would only last that one dyno pull before the motor grenades. The reason why AF is richer is to help cool the air charge and delay the combustion at higher engine speeds so it has time to combust.

Now the factory AF doesn't seem extremely lean, but not very safe either. My map would be more varied than setting a constant AF ratio across the board. There are places in the rev range that can be leaned out to produce a little more power and still be safe. The only way to "tune" is on a dyno where you can see changes in the power graph. This is only fuel adjustment, and not even touching ignition timing! Timing is where the power is made. Decent power can also be made running 87 octane fuel!


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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-08-2013, 10:07 AM
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air density & octane

Air density is the main factor determining the actual AFR, I've been meaning to make a spreedsheet using humidity, elevation, and temperature to calculate it because the temps where I live can vary 20F, if not more, between the morning & afternoon. I haven't gotten to the specific humidity part yet though. But say it's a 1% difference, if I understand it right then that would change a 13.2 AFR to either 13.068 or 13.332 which is worth it for me.

Also from what I gather Octane doesn't add to the energy contained in the fuel it stabilizes it under compression so it's ignited at the right time and not auto-ignited. I didn't major in chemistry though so if I'm wrong about something please let me know, I don't want to misinform anyone or mess my bike up either.

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-09-2013, 01:00 AM
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I've been tuning bikes with Dynojet for 14 years and have never seen a bike make better power at 14.7 than 13.2:1, I beg you guys to not ever make high load areas leaner than 13.6:1. If you want good fuel mileage then low load areas are fine at 14.7 but still will not produce the best performance until you get closer to the high 13's.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-09-2013, 11:58 AM
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Please don't mistake what I was saying. I am not saying to tune for 14.7, was just stating that at stoich all the fuel is burned completely. Which is fine for low load and idle conditions, but I reiterate that AF ratio is not safe under max acceleration and loads.


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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-16-2013, 09:28 PM
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i always shoot for a 13.0 AFR in the 80 to 100% range but for the 2 to 60% range i try & play around at 13.2 to 13.5 AFR.


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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013, 08:25 PM
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Is it ment to run at 16.8AFR on idle?
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ26 View Post
Is it ment to run at 16.8AFR on idle?
don't put any values in the 0% column or the AFR table, if you want to make direct changes to the fuel map go to the fuel table in the 0% column & add more fuel at the target rpm/throttle position.

anyway 16.8 is too lean even at idle but did you block the pair valves yet?


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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013, 09:38 PM
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I haven't done the pair block off yet, is that effecting it?
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 01:55 AM Thread Starter
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it can yes. at idle the pair valve opens injecting fresh air directly into the cylinders to burn and remove excess emissions.



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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 02:30 AM
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I have gone into the fuel map and changed 0% throttle 1,250-1,750 to 13AFR
Its now reading 14.7-15.3AFR @ 0%

Just ordered the blocks offs, is there a guide on how to do it?

Why on the maps the 0% T/Position the AFR is 0?

Last edited by AJ26; 10-07-2013 at 02:52 AM.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ26 View Post
I have gone into the fuel map and changed 0% throttle 1,250-1,750 to 13AFR
Its now reading 14.7-15.3AFR @ 0%

Just ordered the blocks offs, is there a guide on how to do it?

Why on the maps the 0% T/Position the AFR is 0?
it is because of reversion at those TP's that can give you a false reading, it is recommended to adjust those TP's at the 2-5% column only at the dyno where you can monitor the AFR.


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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 05:17 AM
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any side affects changing the 0tp to 1,250-1,750 to 13AFR?
when I do that it adds more fuel to 14.7-15.6AFR

or is the readings false to begin with and the bike isn't running lean?


Last edited by AJ26; 10-07-2013 at 05:33 AM.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ26 View Post
any side affects changing the 0tp to 1,250-1,750 to 13AFR?
when I do that it adds more fuel to 14.7-15.6AFR

or is the readings false to begin with and the bike isn't running lean?

IMO i don't make changes to the 1250 to 1750rpm of the AFR table, i leave it at 0 & just go to the fuel table & just add fuel to those cells.

if you haven't blocked the pair valves yet then yes it could be a false lean reading.


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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 03:38 PM
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so i guess ill leave the fuel map table like that?
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
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becarful with those readings between 4500-5000 thats when the second row of injectors kick in. if it leans it out too much u will get a jolt of trottle. refer to the image i posted to fix it on the afr

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 03:56 AM
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Running bike with base map without autotune till i get the block offs installed

Block offs done & AFR is reading fine now!

Last edited by AJ26; 10-22-2013 at 05:15 AM.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 01:26 PM
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I have some questions about the Auto Tuning configuration.

1. If the sensor we use is inaccurate, whats a more accurate one than we can purchase and use?

2. Power Commander recommends we not 0 out a AFR table cell but why? The reason being is I have really high numbers in certain sections of my throttle/rpm. Will it not keep "Auto Tuning" on the fly fueling mistakes for these sections negating adding our own value in the fuel table?

3. I was under the impression and from my research an Auto Tuner "tunes" on the fly while we are riding applying fuel/air changes, Is this not the case?

4. Power Commander also recommends not setting up Auto Tuner to tune per gear. I have mine setup this way as to allow for the incoming air differences at speed and the setup of my intake. So why is this a recommendation when it's quite capable of doing so?

5. I have 0 out quite a bit of my Target AFR table, especially in sections where there are questionable numbers. None of the numbers are at high load areas and mainly at lower throttle percentages. Whats wrong with this? Would it not also reduce processing load and devote it where a race bike needs them? I don't want to hear "don't do this, I want to know exactly why. Yes I have checked for exhaust leaks often. I cannot find any.

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