To all existing TOCE owners and others with reservations of getting this exhaust... - 600RR.net
Exhaust & Fuel Delivery Tips on how to get the most out of your bike

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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-25-2013, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Lightbulb To all existing TOCE owners and others with reservations of getting this exhaust...

...Hi all

I am sure many of you have done some good research and/or are thinking about getting the TOCE T-Slash slip on exhaust on their CBR 600rr's, so had I, but, this is my story:


I had received the exhaust to London UK in a very well packed parcel, the finish of the exhaust looked perfect, all the extra pieces I had ordered with it (brackets, FE, etc.) were all included in the parcel as well. All good.


The install was very easy too, just undo the side foot peg, remove the heat shield dismantle the OEM exhaust and slip on the new one adjusting it correctly and tighten it on. Finish, job done.


First initial reaction of the switch on of the engine: Wow-effect! Sounded amazing, including a deep roar on lower rpm's.


Corse! Got my helmet on straight away, but hang on, whats that ringing IRRITATING noise in my ears! (This must have to do with the Doppler effect I thought) ...This thing was so loud! Initially I thought I can get away on my daily commute with not wearing ear plugs, but after arriving in my office with my ears ringing I thought no way! This thing can ONLY be ridden WITH ear plugs! What a pain! (Of course on longer rides on motorways ear plugs are an absolute must, but we are talking a 20 min. town commute, nothing heavy!)


I thought fine, fair enough.


Funny enough on my commute back from work, I started getting this 'uh oh!!' feeling, this is funny I thought, where is my lower rpm punch gone from my 600 cbr?! Maybe just give it a couple of days to run in perhaps??


Well, it didn't help! On the contrary! It got worse! The low end grunt of the engine had gone! Completely pulverized! Very little pull from idle to about 8k rpm - nothing there! It felt like I was almost held back by a rubber band!


I then went to have it custom mapped, including giving the engine some more air by fitting a BMC f.1 air filter.


Well, did this do the trick you think? NOO! You can only imagine my disappointment when I got my CBR back only to find that, yes, the power curve was a lot smoother, BUT, the lack of lower end power definitely was NOT cured!!


So there I was, having spent all that good 'ol money on an exotic exhaust from the States, having also fitted a $100 air filter, spent hundreds on a PC V unit including a custom map only to find, yes, looks wise it the whole thing was bloody AWESOME, but performance wise a complete DUD!!


So now what? Solutions you ask?


-1 sprocket to the front? Will that help? Perhaps. Then I thought am I going to spend even more money on a complete sprocket kit including fitting a brand spanking new chain??! (having read the advice given here from other members that one should always change all of the sprockets and the chain as well).


Then I thought, hold on! Why not let me read up about making my OWN custom slip on DIY baffle! Dr Google was very helpful in this endeavor! I soon found out that indeed, fitting a straight through exhaust will cause for there to be less 'back end pressure' resulting in a low rpm fatigue!! So I certainly was not the only one having had this issue!


Next, what am I going to do? Remove the TOCE original baffle and replace it with my own? Maybe. But then I had an idea of just fitting my own baffle ON TOP of the existing factory TOCE baffle!


And that's exactly what I did! ...And guess what?!! Not only had I cured the noise problem (she sounds lovely now!) but also, in a snap of a finger I had all of my low end rpm grunt back again!!!


So there you have it! You can have best of both worlds I would like to think, a damn good looking slip on exhaust (debatable of course!), still decent sound (ok, so it doesn't sound so manic as with just having the original TOCE baffles in - but hey! It is a damn good compromise!), AND you have your low end power back again.


My future plan for now:


I am due for another custom (re)-map on the dyno, I want to do this as I am now having much more back end pressure, I have a feeling she is running too rich now, so she needs another map again.


And, I want to experiment with using a fibre wool instead of what I am using now which is your standard good old steel wool.

Ok. there you have it!


I will over the next coming days post some simple photos with a 'how to do it' instructions so that if you were, or are planning to purchase this straight through race type exhaust but had your reservations about the so much talked about noise issues, and the unfortunately NOT so much talked about loss of low end power issue, well, there is a fix for this right here! :)


Laters guys!


Oh, before I forget, I posted a small video on Youtube on how the TOCE exhaust sounds right now with my custom baffles in, I will post another video soon showing off the original TOCE sound exhaust so that you can directly compare the two. Here is the video link:



Also, if anybody needs a PC V custom Dyno map, using as said above a BMC f.1 air filter in combination with the TOCE exhaust, let me know please, I will post the file up here as well.


Cheers guys! Greetings from London,

best,

Adrian
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-25-2013, 01:29 PM
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one very long thread. congrats!
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-25-2013, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by harry-nyc View Post
one very long thread. congrats!
Which contains very useful information. OP, thanks for sharing this knowledge, I'm sure it will help someone out at one point in time.

This is the first I heard of this issue, how come no one else mentioned it?
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Originally Posted by Mina View Post
Which contains very useful information. OP, thanks for sharing this knowledge, I'm sure it will help someone out at one point in time.

This is the first I heard of this issue, how come no one else mentioned it?
Thanks Mina!

...I can only guess, but perhaps if one is looking into getting a TOCE exhaust one is more orientated towards looks and sound and the loss of the low end grunt issue sort of gets pushed off, not sure, but I have read on many places on the net that low end power has a direct impact on how one packs his exhaust...

On an other place I read it has to do with the fact that one needs this back end pressure in order for the un-burned fuel not to go back into the engine which would result in a power loss.

...Perhaps a more versed member on this forum could enlighten us further?
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-25-2013, 02:47 PM
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Welcome aboard mate and a nice insightful post!
Bike sounds a lot better with your custom baffles IMO, standard is silly loud IMO.

Where in London you from mate?
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-25-2013, 06:56 PM
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Sounds almost like the factory sound. Might be my PC speakers not doing it justice.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-25-2013, 07:28 PM
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Nice write up. I never had any problems w mine, yea it definitley was loud no doubt about that. With ur baffles sounds good at idle. Alittle to quiet for when reving but it's ur bike hopefully ur happy w it.

I never felt m low end ever have an issue w the toce exhaust. The cbr's low end was pretty non-existent anyways, plus I usually am atleast towards the mid to upper anyways when I ride. Maybe that's y I never noticed.

But hope ur happy w the toce looks good...




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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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Talking

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Originally Posted by Raj24v View Post
Welcome aboard mate and a nice insightful post!
Bike sounds a lot better with your custom baffles IMO, standard is silly loud IMO.

Where in London you from mate?

Thanks a lot mate! ...Yeah, I can only (unfortunately on this occasion) agree with you! She is loud, but soo loud! C'mon Toce guys what were you finking!! lol

I make the streets (in)-secure around the Shoreditch area!

Anyway, currently I am probing around with different baffle length and all sorts of baffle packing...interesting stuff, who'd have thunk it! lol

PS: so far I have been going through quite a few Police 'MOT and what have you' check point areas - clean! No stop over just a nod of approval!!

Cheers!
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digdah View Post
Sounds almost like the factory sound. Might be my PC speakers not doing it justice.
Yep! The exhaust is a lot more quieter now, but don't despair! I am working on a slightly louder 'version' (it has to do with the packing material used in the exhaust) but also on a even more subtle one as well, anyway, more DIY top tips to come!
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
Nice write up. I never had any problems w mine, yea it definitley was loud no doubt about that. With ur baffles sounds good at idle. Alittle to quiet for when reving but it's ur bike hopefully ur happy w it.

I never felt m low end ever have an issue w the toce exhaust. The cbr's low end was pretty non-existent anyways, plus I usually am atleast towards the mid to upper anyways when I ride. Maybe that's y I never noticed.

But hope ur happy w the toce looks good...




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Cheers mate! ...it's not a 'problem' per se, it is obviously a subjective matter of one liking or thinking perhaps the exhaust is lacking some nice notes at different rpm spots etc. For me the 'final straw that broke the camels back' was the fact that even on shorter rides I cam off the bike with my ears ringing this problem was emphasized when I had to wear my helmet visor completely down due to the cold weather...

I guess when opting for 'only' a 600 cc displacement super sport motorbike one will need to rev it quite hard in order to get the best our of the machine torque wise. (can I say this here but I am half eyeing the just newly released 899 panigale )

It's not the right thread here to open a can of worms, but I once read a good way of putting it: ''a 600 is just a tiny tad too little, however, a liter bike owns you rather than you owning it, but a 800-900cc displacement bike is just the right blend of power and manageability...'' go figure.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up TOCE DIY Baffle - a How to step by step instructions:

DISCLAIMER: Please be aware that I take no responsibility for this following modification - I cannot guarantee that this custom DIY mod will not harm your motorcycle or any part thereof in anyway or that something unexpected might happen, the risk is entirely yours. Make sure you always wear gloves and face mask when operating with fine material.

Step 1: Use an aluminium mesh/grill (I have taken mine from my kitchen fan extractor, thanks dear wife! With only what she has to put up with!)




Step 2: Cut out an 8" piece long, the width of the mesh should be as wide so that the sheet can fit around a broomstick.




Step 3: Bend the aluminium mesh wire around the broomstick.




Step 4: Wrap and cover the bottom half of the baffle with coarse wire wool (I have used your standard stainless steel pan-scratcher) and the top half of the baffle with medium fine wire/steel wool. MAKE SURE THE WIRE WOOL IS WRAPPED AROUND TIGHTLY and use your hand in a turning motion after you have wrapped around the wire wool to tighten down/compact down the material!




Step 5: Add another layer of medium fine wire/steel wool around the complete baffle.




General notes:

a: I have found that leaving some of the original TOCE exhaust baffle untouched/exposed it gives the best result with regards to leaving you with the lovely low end rpm exhaust note the TOCE gives. Obviously the longer or shorter you make your baffle will have a direct impact of how your TOCE will end up sounding.

b: I have also experimented with only using medium fine wire wool throughout and not using the coarse wire wool for the bottom half of the exhaust - the principle I have found so far is, the finer/more compact you pack your exhaust the more it will absorb the noise - more coarse packing material equals more/louder exhaust sound.

c: I have read controversy things on the net with regards using wire wool in the first place; you read about wire wool catching fire and being blown out, on other places you read that one must first use a layer of wire wool before packing the exhaust with fiber wool. Up until now I have not had any issues using wire wool and the more coarse steel wool.

d: The more wire wool you use to wrap around your baffle mesh the harder it will be being able to stuff down your custom baffle on top of the existing TOCE baffle - experiment and see for yourself. I was able to use 2 layers of fine wire wool and had only little problems getting the DIY baffle inside the TOCE baffle. Make sure to only remove the broomstick AFTER you have completely submerged your baffle inside the TOCE baffle!

e: A top tip in order not to lose the screw used in order for the custom baffle not to blow out under heavy load, is to clear tape/fix the screw to the screwdriver (as is shown in the next post) it is very easy once the screw is fixed in to remove the clear tape.


...continued on the next post.
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Last edited by Adrian O.; 11-26-2013 at 01:24 PM.
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up ...continued from last post.

Step 6: Now take the baffle with the broomstick still inserted to it(!) and slowly insert it into your TOCE exhaust, you can use a turning motion in order to help you getting your custom made baffle inside the existing TOCE baffle. Take your time; if it doesn't fit, just remove some of the wire wool layer in order to thin down your baffle.




Step 7: All that is left to do now once you have completely submerged your baffle inside your TOCE exhaust is to secure it using a screw fixing it into one of the many holes found inside the TOCE baffle. Top tip: secure the screw with some clear tape onto the screw driver, you don't want the screw to fall down into the abyss of your exhaust - it will take a good few wheelies to get the screw out! (or worse if you haven't got a strong magnetized screwdriver at hand you will need to dismantle your exhaust!)




Step 8: Inspect that the screw is fixed in properly and cannot become loose(!) and make sure that you leave the screw out enough so that it will still be able to hold back your custom made DIY slip on TOCE baffle!




Any suggestions or comments are welcome! I hope that I have helped some of you who were thinking of getting this exhaust but had some reservation about it's noise, which is very justified I might add. My next step is to try out this mod with using fibre fool instead/as well as wire wool.

Best of luck with this mod!!
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-26-2013, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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Youtube video showing baffle using the coarse type of wire wool

Hello all!

Just to show you what it sounds like when using the half/half version of the type of the wire wool used for packing - as you can hear, when using a more coarse type of wire wool there is a noticeable difference to when using an all in one fine wire wool wrapping as packing. As mentioned before, the following factors will determine your end result of your exhaust note:

a: what kind of material is used for packing the baffle, the coarser the packing material is the louder the exhaust note is.

b: how long you make your baffle.

c: if your custom made baffle is shorter than your existing stock TOCE baffle, meaning it will only cover 2/3 of the inside of the TOCE baffle, it will give you a more satisfying low rpm rumble. I this video example I have cut my baffle to a length of 8".

Link to video:



Next up will be a video showing how it sounds when using fiber wool instead of steel wool - have to build it first though!

Last edited by Adrian O.; 11-26-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-27-2013, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Smile Righty-ho! Fiberglass wool version video is now available...

I fixed the fiberglass wool version last night - It only took a few minutes to remove the previous used baffle (I had to throw it in the bin as the wire mesh got destroyed upon removal of the baffle insert) and to install a new fiberglass wool packed slip in baffle.

Some general notes:

a: either use a smaller sized diameter broomstick or, what I used was a bamboo stick I found in one of my room plants(!) (yes I did stick it back into that poor plant after I was done with it!) it was just that tiny bit smaller in diameter making it an excellent tool for fitting around the wire mesh.

b: you can tape down the fiberglass wool blanket, just secure it at both ends and in the middle with some clear tape - just once around the baffle is enough in order to hold the fiberglass blanket wrapped around in place.

c: I have a feeling that my exhaust is too quiet now! I think having used an 8" long wire mesh is too long - 6" is my guess would be perfect! That fiberglass wool blanket really does do a marvelous job! You might even want to try to thin down the blanket by removing some fiberglass layers; the blanket I had was about 1cm thick, as is shown here in this picture.



Ok! This concludes this episode, I hope it might come in useful to someone - it surely did the trick for me, I was on the brink of putting that ugly, boring OEM exhaust back again - good thing I didn't and opted out on some very interesting ventures!

Video showing the fiberglass wool baffle version:
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-28-2013, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up 6" Baffle insert...

Packed with less fiberglass wool than before! I think this TOCE exhaust sounds amazing now, I am very pleased now myself, what do you think??


PS: I can only emphasize again about the above mentioned exhaust back end pressure issue; when I was removing the DIY baffle insert of mine and took her for a short ride there was definitely less pull from the lower revs down - but with this 6" baffle insert now, man! she pulls hard now!

Have a listen...


Last edited by Adrian O.; 11-28-2013 at 12:15 PM. Reason: spelling
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-28-2013, 10:44 AM
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bit off topic but what mirrors you got?

07RR//r&g frame sliders,tst IT,fork+swingarm protectors,r&g rad guard,red asv,s
,red lowers,yoshi rs5,oem seat cowl,vcr rearsets,stomp grip,,headlight covers,0.875 springs,,flush mounts,fe,spools,oem numberboards,rim tape,cam mount ,db screen,lightech carbon mirrors,res socks,gi-pro,led pegs,carbon tank panels/yoke trim/ hugger/chain guard/front fender/fuel trim,carbon wrapped sub frame,gb engine covers,numerous carbon wrapped pieces,RED mids, suspension set up
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-28-2013, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Mirrors

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Originally Posted by ash2020 View Post
bit off topic but what mirrors you got?
:)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/mirrors-medu.../251147010813?


(PS: when fitting them make sure to fit them the right way round; when sitting on your bike the rounded 'cut out' of the mirror should be facing downwards not upwards.)
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-28-2013, 09:42 PM
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I didn't read much, but don't spend $ ,or time with an exhaust too much...




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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-29-2013, 12:43 AM
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Not to sound like a Debbie downer but this thread SCREAMS 'f$#k it, buy the akra'
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-29-2013, 05:41 AM Thread Starter
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I didn't read much, but don't spend $ ,or time with an exhaust too much...
Oye! You must have telepathy - I kept those exact words saying over and over again every time that blommin exhaust of mine kept staring me in my face "am I not good 'nough for ya what are ye gonna do to me now, master?"

Mmh! just ignored it.

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-29-2013, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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Not to sound like a Debbie downer but this thread SCREAMS 'f$#k it, buy the akra'
...that would be the other option - though haven't given up - yet
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-29-2013, 07:49 AM
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I love my toce exhaust. I never lost power in anyway from it. No regrets


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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-29-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Adrian O. View Post
:)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/mirrors-medu.../251147010813?


(PS: when fitting them make sure to fit them the right way round; when sitting on your bike the rounded 'cut out' of the mirror should be facing downwards not upwards.)
thanks adriano,if you get a chance stick some pics up of mirrors on your bike if youve got any
cheers

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,red lowers,yoshi rs5,oem seat cowl,vcr rearsets,stomp grip,,headlight covers,0.875 springs,,flush mounts,fe,spools,oem numberboards,rim tape,cam mount ,db screen,lightech carbon mirrors,res socks,gi-pro,led pegs,carbon tank panels/yoke trim/ hugger/chain guard/front fender/fuel trim,carbon wrapped sub frame,gb engine covers,numerous carbon wrapped pieces,RED mids, suspension set up
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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-30-2013, 04:17 AM
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Well this is a good thread, some will learn a thing or two about baffles, Toces and the effects of a slip on. Good on you for all the pics and vids you shared, and keep at it.

Some people (regardless of the brand) will never fit a slip on without a PC because of how it robs away all the low end. This is a legitimate problem, but it depends on the indivdual and whether they consider it a nusiance or not.

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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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I love my toce exhaust. I never lost power in anyway from it. No regrets


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Good to hear! And please don't let my thread put you off in anyway whatsoever!! Love my T'ce slip on as well it seems I'm just personally a little more concerned with some issues, that's all. Power to us.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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thanks adriano,if you get a chance stick some pics up of mirrors on your bike if youve got any
cheers
Sure buddy 'ere we go!




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Adrian O. is offline  
post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-01-2013, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad Rage View Post
Well this is a good thread, some will learn a thing or two about baffles, Toces and the effects of a slip on. Good on you for all the pics and vids you shared, and keep at it.

Some people (regardless of the brand) will never fit a slip on without a PC because of how it robs away all the low end. This is a legitimate problem, but it depends on the indivdual and whether they consider it a nusiance or not.
Thanks very much!

...I for sure on my next bike will put in an extra round of thinking when it comes to adding aftermarket exhaust bits and pieces!

Have been today to the NEC Bike show in Birmingham, it was lovely, paradise really, sort of! All those lovely machines to feast your eyes and senses on! Anyway, got to the Ducati stand, the guy telling me you know if you get the 899 before the end of the year we are throwing in Termis free of charge(!) I thought, wow! that's nice! After a moment of thinking while giving the guy a critical look I asked him, errm, will I need one of those PCV thingy fitted accompanied by a custom Dyno run, he said, well YES you do and really should in order to get the max out of the bike! I said, thanks very much but I'll just stick to the good 'ol factory OEM and leave her be as is!! Thanks very much! lol

Perhaps my next bike? Ducati Red or Pearl-white?


Last edited by Adrian O.; 12-01-2013 at 04:31 PM.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 12-02-2013, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian O. View Post
Thanks very much!

...I for sure on my next bike will put in an extra round of thinking when it comes to adding aftermarket exhaust bits and pieces!

Have been today to the NEC Bike show in Birmingham, it was lovely, paradise really, sort of! All those lovely machines to feast your eyes and senses on! Anyway, got to the Ducati stand, the guy telling me you know if you get the 899 before the end of the year we are throwing in Termis free of charge(!) I thought, wow! that's nice! After a moment of thinking while giving the guy a critical look I asked him, errm, will I need one of those PCV thingy fitted accompanied by a custom Dyno run, he said, well YES you do and really should in order to get the max out of the bike! I said, thanks very much but I'll just stick to the good 'ol factory OEM and leave her be as is!! Thanks very much! lol

Perhaps my next bike? Ducati Red or Pearl-white?

Sounds like an enticing prospect but as you said, you have to factor in the other purchases that are necessary to gain your fair share from the system.

2011 CBR600RR 'X-Ray' Build Thread
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-09-2014, 10:19 AM
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toce pcv map

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian O. View Post
...Hi all

I am sure many of you have done some good research and/or are thinking about getting the TOCE T-Slash slip on exhaust on their CBR 600rr's, so had I, but, this is my story.....


Also, if anybody needs a PC V custom Dyno map, using as said above a BMC f.1 air filter in combination with the TOCE exhaust, let me know please, I will post the file up here as well.


Cheers guys! Greetings from London,

best,

Adrian

Would you mind sharing your map? Thanks from Canada eh
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 11:26 AM
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Sticky this for current and future Toce owners!! :D

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