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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-02-2013, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Question Power commander map question

Hi,
on a 2008 600rr with a two bros exhaust and arrow headers, what map should i use to get started? (PC5+Autotune)

thanks
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-02-2013, 03:19 PM
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Send DynoJet an email and they'll tell you which map is best to start with.


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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-02-2013, 04:03 PM
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They told me an Arrow map. I have the same setup, except w/ an Akra slip-on.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-02-2013, 04:06 PM
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isn't the point of having the autotune so that you don't have to load a map? you just let the PC run and change it's map as needed? (not trying to sound like a smartass, asking this out of curiosity since I don't have an aftermarket fuel management system)

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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-02-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry-nyc View Post
They told me an Arrow map. I have the same setup, except w/ an Akra slip-on.
The 2bros and akra flow very differently.


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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-04-2013, 07:38 AM
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Pm me I'll make u a map
Sell the auto tune you won't need it
The basic dynojet maps are terrible and wayyyy too rich
I'll guarantee you won't find a better street/track map



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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-05-2013, 06:57 PM
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Way too rich? Based off of what? We usually target an AFR of 13.2-13.4. You run it any leaner than that and you are going to have issues over the long haul.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-05-2013, 07:21 PM
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just take your bike to your local tuner done and done
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-29-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DynojetResearch View Post
Way too rich? Based off of what? We usually target an AFR of 13.2-13.4. You run it any leaner than that and you are going to have issues over the long haul.
It's not about a/f ratios
It's about air density
Why would you want an a/ f ratio of 13.2 at cruising speed or low load conditions?
Way too rich overall- I suggest you wipe the soot from the and of the tailpipe and see


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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-29-2013, 02:41 PM
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You can lean it out in the lower rpms but you will barely save any gas. I don't see the point to go through the trouble unless you are shooting for a mpg record lol
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-29-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DynojetResearch View Post
Way too rich? Based off of what? We usually target an AFR of 13.2-13.4. You run it any leaner than that and you are going to have issues over the long haul.


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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-30-2013, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynarex View Post
It's not about a/f ratios
It's about air density
Why would you want an a/ f ratio of 13.2 at cruising speed or low load conditions?
Way too rich overall- I suggest you wipe the soot from the and of the tailpipe and see


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It absolutely is about AFRs. Which are affected by air density, temperature, barometric pressure, humidity etc. how do you change your air density by adjusting your map? You don't. You adjust fuel to compensate for setup and environmental variables in order to obtain a certain AFR based on need with 13.0:1 being ideal for power and Stoichiometric for a perfect balance. (usually)

Nothing beats a proper tune done by a reputable shop for your purpose and setup.



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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-31-2013, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldn View Post
It absolutely is about AFRs. Which are affected by air density, temperature, barometric pressure, humidity etc. how do you change your air density by adjusting your map? You don't. You adjust fuel to compensate for setup and environmental variables in order to obtain a certain AFR based on need with 13.0:1 being ideal for power and Stoichiometric for a perfect balance. (usually)

Nothing beats a proper tune done by a reputable shop for your purpose and setup.



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I will put my map against ANY dynojet or Dyno map
Around the track and street. Any takers?
Try it and you will see
There are several members using my map and they will agree


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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 12-31-2013, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynarex View Post
I will put my map against ANY dynojet or Dyno map
Around the track and street. Any takers?
Try it and you will see
There are several members using my map and they will agree


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I'm willing. Send me a free map and I'll get it dyno tested vs a CM Motorsports tune. Keep in mind these guys run their own AMA team and know a thing or two about tuning.

All you've done is spout out about how you have the best maps. I've yet to see any real data or testimonials from anyone other than "it feels a lot better". And none of those users had a real tune done prior to running your map. And that little comment about air density only leads me to believe more of what I'm already expecting.

Bottom line, NOTHING beats a proper tune done by a reputable tuner.

Let me know if you'll stay true to your word and I'll post up my setup. My bike is a race bike only so you'll need to make it for power (rich). Oh, and I run 87 octane.


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Last edited by Ldn; 12-31-2013 at 07:02 PM.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-01-2014, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldn View Post
I'm willing. Send me a free map and I'll get it dyno tested vs a CM Motorsports tune. Keep in mind these guys run their own AMA team and know a thing or two about tuning.

All you've done is spout out about how you have the best maps. I've yet to see any real data or testimonials from anyone other than "it feels a lot better". And none of those users had a real tune done prior to running your map. And that little comment about air density only leads me to believe more of what I'm already expecting.

Bottom line, NOTHING beats a proper tune done by a reputable tuner.

Let me know if you'll stay true to your word and I'll post up my setup. My bike is a race bike only so you'll need to make it for power (rich). Oh, and I run 87 octane.


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I'm talking lap times and street riding
Not top hp numbers on a Dyno
But if youde like I'll send you a map and instructions on other things that should be done along with the map
I'd like you to run a few laps then run a few more with my map and compre times-I'm saying my map will be as good or better than dynojets or any other averge joe map and probably a custom Dyno map too
Before you draw and pre conceived ideas I ask to keep it as neutral and objective as possible
Fell free to pm me
I need to know about the mods to your bike so I can make a map
And your e-mail too
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-01-2014, 12:52 PM
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Hey Ldn, I tried Dynarex's offer, got in contact w/ "Jeffo" and used the map and suggestions supplied.

It is/was a way better map in terms of mid range, and on/off/on throttle response.

before "Jeffo's" map I was using a tuned map developed by Doug Chandler,for his son Jett's 07 trackbike......good power, but not as good at mid range street /canyon riding as what dynarex is offering.

Please take him up on his offer!

Please post your results/opinion/findings

Thanks!
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-01-2014, 06:07 PM
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Just a word of warning about trying others maps. You're taking a gamble with your engine because if they set the AFR on accident way too lean or made a major mistake you could damage your engine. Unless you 100% trust the source I would never recommend blindly running anyone elses maps.

Also realize that in about every situation things will feel the best when it's too lean and slowly damaging the engine. This is why you can't tune based off "feel". You need data to tune or know what is best. Anything tuned to the absolute limit of blowing the engine will feel the best, but that doesn't mean it's smart. A good tune is based off data, not feel.
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-01-2014, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tary preisser View Post
Hey Ldn, I tried Dynarex's offer, got in contact w/ "Jeffo" and used the map and suggestions supplied.

It is/was a way better map in terms of mid range, and on/off/on throttle response.

before "Jeffo's" map I was using a tuned map developed by Doug Chandler,for his son Jett's 07 trackbike......good power, but not as good at mid range street /canyon riding as what dynarex is offering.

Please take him up on his offer!

Please post your results/opinion/findings

Thanks!
It's way better how? Do you have a dyno showing the AFR? Without it you may be tuned for 14.0 AFR which will feel great until you need to replace the engine. Run it on a dyno and post the curve/afr and it will say everything about the map.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-01-2014, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motomummy View Post
It's way better how? Do you have a dyno showing the AFR? Without it you may be tuned for 14.0 AFR which will feel great until you need to replace the engine. Run it on a dyno and post the curve/afr and it will say everything about the map.
So in that case tuning is easy
Just buy auto tune set all for 13.8
Mean best torque and everyone is a tuner now?


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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-01-2014, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dynarex View Post
So in that case tuning is easy
Just buy auto tune set all for 13.8
Mean best torque and everyone is a tuner now?


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I don't believe anywhere I said it's easy? I wouldn't recommend tuning to 13.8 anyway as it's too lean while under a heavy load. However, anyone that understands tuning also wouldn't recommend people blindly use others maps because they are aware there is a lot more too it. Yes, people can tune their own bikes fairly easily using the auto tuner. Is it 100% best? Nope, as it's just a tool the same way a dyno is. A dyno alone also isn't best and that is why high end racing uses dyno's and logging on the bike (real world conditions) to get the absolute best, however for the average rider this is overkill so they do one of three options. 1. use a downloaded map, 2. dyno tune, 3. auto tune. None of these by itself is the best, but for the average person it's more then fine to do any of these. However, anyone that tunes will tell anyone, don't just blindly use some persons map off the internet the same way you wouldn't blindly send your engine to some guy online to rebuild your engine in hopes the guy knows what he is doing.

I'm not saying this is the case in your situation, but if you know tuning as well as you claim you know how many out there often don't realize what they don't know, or over estimate their abilities so randomly using peoples maps online isn't the best idea. Unless you don't care about your engine. Also, if you know tuning well you'll know that nobody can truly test your maps without throwing it on a dyno and going off a feel doesn't mean anything as often running too lean will feel the best, but isn't the best for the long haul.

If people want to use random maps thrown around online that is on them, but they should know that if it's a bad map or pushed too far they can damage their engine. I'm assuming you would agree with this?

Last edited by motomummy; 01-01-2014 at 06:59 PM.
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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-01-2014, 06:53 PM
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So I want to compare his map to my custom tune during street rides. Where can I get the map?

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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-01-2014, 07:16 PM
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So I want to compare his map to my custom tune during street rides. Where can I get the map?

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Pm me your bike info
Also need avg temp and elevation you ride at


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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-01-2014, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by motomummy View Post
I don't believe anywhere I said it's easy? I wouldn't recommend tuning to 13.8 anyway as it's too lean while under a heavy load. However, anyone that understands tuning also wouldn't recommend people blindly use others maps because they are aware there is a lot more too it. Yes, people can tune their own bikes fairly easily using the auto tuner. Is it 100% best? Nope, as it's just a tool the same way a dyno is. A dyno alone also isn't best and that is why high end racing uses dyno's and logging on the bike (real world conditions) to get the absolute best, however for the average rider this is overkill so they do one of three options. 1. use a downloaded map, 2. dyno tune, 3. auto tune. None of these by itself is the best, but for the average person it's more then fine to do any of these. However, anyone that tunes will tell anyone, don't just blindly use some persons map off the internet the same way you wouldn't blindly send your engine to some guy online to rebuild your engine in hopes the guy knows what he is doing.

I'm not saying this is the case in your situation, but if you know tuning as well as you claim you know how many out there often don't realize what they don't know, or over estimate their abilities so randomly using peoples maps online isn't the best idea. Unless you don't care about your engine. Also, if you know tuning well you'll know that nobody can truly test your maps without throwing it on a dyno and going off a feel doesn't mean anything as often running too lean will feel the best, but isn't the best for the long haul.

If people want to use random maps thrown around online that is on them, but they should know that if it's a bad map or pushed too far they can damage their engine. I'm assuming you would agree with this?
I do agree




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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-02-2014, 12:40 AM
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I'm not willing to run my bike on an untested map on the track. And I'm definitely not interest in running it for a lap time without seeing some dyno data first.

If you don't care about dyno data then there's no point in us doing this. Maintaining power (hp) and a good AFR across my entire range is paramount for me. I will not gamble when it comes to my motor. I've seen what happens when someone who doesn't quite know what they're doing gets their hands on a motor... As I was passing them.


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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-11-2014, 12:46 PM
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Alright, I have no experience with a custom tune for my bike. I run a slip on and an aftermarket air filter, there are things I had in mind which I would love to improve and that is why I bought a PCV and Autotune module. I didn't install the Autotune yet and decided to try out Dynarex's map, here is what I noticed after the first ride with it:

- Reduced engine braking, I realized instantly that I'm having to get harder on the brakes because the engine braking is less aggressive than stock.
- Improved acceleration, I hit a speed I never hit before in a very short time, I was very surprised and chopped the throttle when I saw the speed on the dash.
- Improved throttle response, roll ons are much more smoother and getting on the gas in the corners is much more fun because the bike is not as upset as it would be with the abrupt onset of throttle with the stock ECU. Roll offs are also smoother, even in first gear, it was noticeable.

I only rode for an hour with this new map; granted I'm no racer and have a lot to learn, but I was able to tell all those differences, so more experienced riders will be able to feel and benefit much more than I do. After I spend some time riding with it I'll install the Autotune and compare the best map I can get out of it to Dynarex's.

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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-11-2014, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad Rage View Post
Alright, I have no experience with a custom tune for my bike. I run a slip on and an aftermarket air filter, there are things I had in mind which I would love to improve and that is why I bought a PCV and Autotune module. I didn't install the Autotune yet and decided to try out Dynarex's map, here is what I noticed after the first ride with it:

- Reduced engine braking, I realized instantly that I'm having to get harder on the brakes because the engine braking is less aggressive than stock.
- Improved acceleration, I hit a speed I never hit before in a very short time, I was very surprised and chopped the throttle when I saw the speed on the dash.
- Improved throttle response, roll ons are much more smoother and getting on the gas in the corners is much more fun because the bike is not as upset as it would be with the abrupt onset of throttle with the stock ECU. Roll offs are also smoother, even in first gear, it was noticeable.

I only rode for an hour with this new map; granted I'm no racer and have a lot to learn, but I was able to tell all those differences, so more experienced riders will be able to feel and benefit much more than I do. After I spend some time riding with it I'll install the Autotune and compare the best map I can get out of it to Dynarex's.
Thanks



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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-25-2014, 05:17 PM
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Bump, any updates here?
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