Throttle position issue!!! - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Throttle position issue!!!

Ok, here is my deal!!! I recently put on a PCIII and akropovic slip on, went for a for a good couple hour test ride. Stuck in some traffic the bike acted like it was "loading up". so I pulled down a side street gave it a couple good revs and got a back fire out her. after that the bike hesitated and the idle shot up to around 10,000rpm, wouldn't go any lower then that. I attached my laptop to the PCIII and powered turned on the key, immediatly the PCIII was showing a 10% throttle position. I pulled the PCIII out and connected up all the stock componants, still same result. I pulled up the whole air box and notided the thottle cables were not hitting the throttle position stoppers. I rolled FORWARD as hard as I could on the throttle and the throttle cables landed in the right position and the idle goes back to 2,500 - 3,000 rpm. I can't see anything that is holding back the throttle body side of the the throttle cable. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys........

Angry RR owner at this point. My R6 was hands down less problems.... Honda is on my list from this point forward......
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 08:51 PM
 
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could you have a throttle position switch thats going bad.......I haven't heard of them going but that could be it. That could be why your power commander was reading 10%. It would also make your fuel map go crazy, I would think

Last edited by mx510; 04-14-2006 at 08:53 PM.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx510
could you have a throttle position switch thats going bad.......I haven't heard of them going but that could be it. That could be why your power commander was reading 10%. It would also make your fuel map go crazy, I would think

I compared the map that was on the PCIII when it happened to the map that I had loaded. There wasn't a difference, I looked long and hard. I had about 2 hours on it after the PCIII and slip on install before it acted up. It's an 05, and has under 2000 miles on it. If the switch or sensor is going bad, thats kinda shotty I think. It's still under warrenty for two more months I may just button it up tonight and take it to the dealer on monday. Minus the PCII of course...
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-14-2006, 10:26 PM
 
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There wont be a difference in the map on the pc111,once a map is loaded on the pc111 nothing will change that except loading a different map. I think it might be the tps on the bike. The power commander is working with the ecu based on throttle position and rpm. If the tps is telling the ecu or the power commander for that matter the wrong throttle position then it will run like crap because your sitting at a light and the tps is telling your bike that your at 10% throttle. They can probably go bad if they get real wet. (the tps, I mean). I would take it to the dealer without the power commander.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-15-2006, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx510
There wont be a difference in the map on the pc111,once a map is loaded on the pc111 nothing will change that except loading a different map. I think it might be the tps on the bike. The power commander is working with the ecu based on throttle position and rpm. If the tps is telling the ecu or the power commander for that matter the wrong throttle position then it will run like crap because your sitting at a light and the tps is telling your bike that your at 10% throttle. They can probably go bad if they get real wet. (the tps, I mean). I would take it to the dealer without the power commander.
I talked to a couple dealers this morning, and from what they have said, if there isn't a "dummy" light coming on then the tps is probably all right. they keep saying that it may be with the linkage or something else mechanical. I'm going to take it to the dealer any way, just to see what the word is.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-15-2006, 01:16 PM
 
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cool. let us know......
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 06:59 AM
 
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Key word there is "probably". Did you try and calibrate the TP on the software. You said that when you openned the software, it read 10% throttle. Did you reset that to 0, and 100% to 100% or not? Try that and see what happens.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman
Key word there is "probably". Did you try and calibrate the TP on the software. You said that when you openned the software, it read 10% throttle. Did you reset that to 0, and 100% to 100% or not? Try that and see what happens.
I'm wondering if he raised the idle on the bike and went too far with the throttle cable. The bike was probably running too rich to begin with and the raised RPM only masked the problem because 2,500-3,000 rpm isn't stock.

What map are you running?

My suggestion would be to lower the rpm's until you figure out how the bike is running. Once you're happy with the map then you can raise it back up.

Got a dyno near by?


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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-16-2006, 08:08 PM
 
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Yep, for sure,if the bike was set to idle on a very rich mix, and you then lean that out, it will raise the point it idles at considerably. Make sure you have the TP set (by you) in the PC software, and just adjust your idle manually once that is done, and see how you go. Other than that, something is amiss somewhere, you'll have to take it and get it checked out. Let us know how you go.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman
Yep, for sure,if the bike was set to idle on a very rich mix, and you then lean that out, it will raise the point it idles at considerably. Make sure you have the TP set (by you) in the PC software, and just adjust your idle manually once that is done, and see how you go. Other than that, something is amiss somewhere, you'll have to take it and get it checked out. Let us know how you go.
Luckily I was riding with my backpack and laptop when it happened. It was only 2 hrs after the install of the PC and slip on when it acted up. I attempted to set the throttle at 0% but when it saved and came backup, it was reading 10% again. I will try again, but wouldn't un hooking the PC and setting all the connections back to stock basically read stock settings again? Shouldn't that reposition the TPS? Just questions??? Also once I did the install, I loaded the map for the 05 Jardine slip on and left the idle where it was originally. When I first started it up, after the install it idled pretty high for a few moments then it settled down to about 1,800 rpms and idled perfectly. Ran like a champ for two hours as I mentioned, until stuck in that traffic started making the bike run funny, the fans kicked on a couple times. But it was a cool day. Just trying to provide as much info as possible, I apprecaite the help and ideas for trouble shotting this. I always hate taking any thing in for repair. I can do most stuff my self, but I guess when it gets to the F/I stuff I get a little lost. Carb man for sure : )~ Thas what I liked about my 99 R6 : )~ Easy to work on... ahahahaha Thanks again to all for helping out....
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 08:42 PM
 
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If you click it to 0% and it changes back to 10% either you haven't got the TP sensor wire connected right, or your TP sensor itself has crapped out on you. Problem solved, it's either one or the other.

And no, once you load a map, or whatever on the pc, if you diconnect it and put it back on, it will still have the same map and settings etc init. But anyway, get those two things checked , that's your problem for sure.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-17-2006, 10:19 PM
 
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i hate bein right all the time............lol. Birdman knows his stuff
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman
If you click it to 0% and it changes back to 10% either you haven't got the TP sensor wire connected right, or your TP sensor itself has crapped out on you. Problem solved, it's either one or the other.

And no, once you load a map, or whatever on the pc, if you diconnect it and put it back on, it will still have the same map and settings etc init. But anyway, get those two things checked , that's your problem for sure.
What I meant is once I connected all the stock stuff back up (completely remove the PCIII) wouldn't it lower the idle back to stock? That is if it were the TP sensor connection from the PC wasn't correct. I know once a map is saved whether you power down the PC or what not that map I loaded is going to come back up. As the bike sits now, all stock the idle still rises up to the sky.... Not to mention the actual mechanical part of the throttle isn't sitting right near the throttle bodies.

So if the TP sensor goes bad would that physically make the mechanical portion of the throttle assembly at the throttle bodies not sit flush with the positiong screws that are factory set on the throttle bodies? I know that was kind of a ramble, but do you know what I mean? If I roll super hard forward on the twist throttle it forces the throttle assembly to sit flush and the idle will go back to normal.

The bike sits a friends house, and I haven't been back to work on it for a few days. I'm heading over there tonight after work to wrench on it a little more. the last time I worked on it, I made sure all the stock fittings and connectors were fastened correctly. So at this point I think it is as you mentioned the TP sensor, or something mechanical in the throttle assembly near the throttle bodies. I will let you all know tomorrow what I find/do.

Thanks again for all the help.... it is really appreciated.... Maybe some day I'll have some good knowledge to kick your way.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 10:49 AM
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Like birdy said... it's likely that it's not mechanical at all...

The throttle position sensor is electronic, and if it's misreading, it's basically the same as you having your hand on the throttle and twisting it. Do yourself a favor and take it in to get it taken care of under warrantee.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 11:33 AM
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I wouldn't rule out a mechanical issue. By the description he just gave it sounds like it IS mechanical.

Has the idle been raised on the bike at anytime?

Has the TB's been off the bike or been worked on?

Has the throttle cables been worked on? It sounds like the throttle cable(s) may be bent, binding, and holding the throttle at 10%. The PC is just telling you the truth about the throttle position.

If you want use the following to troubleshoot the TPS and rule it in or out.



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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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""I wouldn't rule out a mechanical issue. By the description he just gave it sounds like it IS mechanical.

Has the idle been raised on the bike at anytime?

Has the TB's been off the bike or been worked on?

Has the throttle cables been worked on? It sounds like the throttle cable(s) may be bent, binding, and holding the throttle at 10%. The PC is just telling you the truth about the throttle position.

If you want use the following to troubleshoot the TPS and rule it in or out.""

The idle wasn't touched. I never adjusted the idle from the left side of the bike, I didn't raise it in the PC software. I loaded a default map for the 05 Jardine Slip on. I did remove the upper airbox lid to instal a K&N filter, but I've gone over the connections several times nothing is loose or connected wrong. I did remove the twist throttle assembly last year when I was trying out a different set of bars (didn't like) so I put the stock ones back on. I've ridden several times since then before doing the work this time. I will inspect everything one more time before putting it back together, then off to the dealer. Thanks again for all the help EVERYONE!!!
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Welp, I found the cause of the issue. There was a small piece of debris, whether it was a sliver of metal or plastic, I was stuck on the side of one of the throttle bodies, stopping the butterfly from fully closing. I pulled it out and ran it across my fingures, dropped it on the floor and couldn't find it. I'm worried that more sh*t may have fallen into the throttle bodies, and made it's way into the engine. I ran it for a few minutes, so now I'm just gonna drain the oil and hopefully flush everything out. Sum-b*tch, if I'd just saw that earlier, would have saved myself a poop ton of thinking and putzing around. Thanks again all for giving such good advice, I give mad props to you guys.... Hopefully from this post on I'l have nothing but positive things to post about.


Again thanks a million!!!
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 09:46 PM
 
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aww crap .........I was wrong........lol
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-19-2006, 10:08 PM
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ditto... hehe

glad to hear you are up and running again though.
Debris is strange though... especially if it's metal shavings
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ME2
ditto... hehe

glad to hear you are up and running again though.
Debris is strange though... especially if it's metal shavings
The only thing the metal shaving or what ever it was, could have come from was when I broke a screw in the airbox compartment when installing a K&N I opened a brand new box of shop towels, and stuffed a good wod in to the stacks to be sure nothing would make its way when I was fighting with that broken screw. At any rate, I'm glad it's fixed and hopefully no real damage was done. I need to grab oil and a filter so I can drain that oil just in case. Then I'm out for another ride, hopefully I can make it successully for a while. I had plans on getting it to the Dyno shop, but now that I'm a couple months from buying a new house, I need to wait on spending more money on my toys. If I do, my fiance' will kill me!!! Hahahahaha.... It'll be nice tho since we're moving from an apt, to our first home. Gimme my own garage..... LOL!!

Thanks again to every one who passed along their ideas in helping me along....
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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 11:39 PM
 
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Let her know that the best thing about buying a house, is that you can borrow more money for your toys at a much lower rate than financing threm on their own. So just get your toys at the same time you get your house. LOL Yeah, she'll love you for that.
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-22-2006, 02:38 PM
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Glad you found it man! Word to the wise though. Next time stuff some paper towels or shop rags into the VS's or TB's when you're working on it. Then use a vacumm cleaner when your finished to clean up and then remove the rags. That way you don't drop anything down into the intake.


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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewRedRider
Glad you found it man! Word to the wise though. Next time stuff some paper towels or shop rags into the VS's or TB's when you're working on it. Then use a vacumm cleaner when your finished to clean up and then remove the rags. That way you don't drop anything down into the intake.
Werd man i hear that..... I stuffed the rags down there as soon as I pulled the top part of the air box off. Thought I cleaned up pretty good after I was all done. Once I found that in there, I ran the shop vac for a good long time around the whole throttle bodie assembly air box etc...
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