PAIR system on non-USA bikes? - 600RR.net
Exhaust & Fuel Delivery Tips on how to get the most out of your bike

 
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-23-2014, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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PAIR system on non-USA bikes?

I've got an Australian model and I'm just wondering if I would have this PAIR system, should I remove it if I'm not getting it dynotuned?
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 12:56 AM
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As far as I know both US and EU spec bikes have it.

The PAIR system pumps fresh air into the exhaust stream to reduce the concentration of emissions, and that of course compromises the readings of self-tuning modules that depend on data the sensor picks up to understand how the engine is running. So removing it is better than keeping it in all cases whether you choose to self-tune, dyno-tune or no tune.

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 03:29 AM
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You have it; it's more pain to do for no gain.

It helps when doing dyno tune to get more accurate reading etc etc.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 06:06 AM
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I removed mine, but it was a PITA and I highly advise measuring the height of your block off plates and pair thingamajiggers to make sure their equal if you plan to use the stock bolts.

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, I may consider it when I get a full system and then do a tune, for now I think I should be fine.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 12:10 PM
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The system is in place to provide oxygen to allow unburned fuel to burn off in the exhaust tract . Its not for dilution. This extra burn also raises egts and keeps the cat working optimally

Last edited by wibbly; 12-24-2014 at 12:16 PM.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-24-2014, 12:23 PM
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If you aren't having the bike tuned (dyno or auto) then don't bother.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
The system is in place to provide oxygen to allow unburned fuel to burn off in the exhaust tract . Its not for dilution. This extra burn also raises egts and keeps the cat working optimally
To quote the manual:

The secondary air supply system introduces filtered air into exhaust gases in the exhaust port. The secondary air is drawn whenever there is negative pressure pulse in the exhaust system. This charged secondary air promotes burning of the unburned exhaust gases and changes a considerable amount of hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide into relatively harmless carbon dioxide and water.

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Last edited by Rad Rage; 12-25-2014 at 03:16 AM.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad Rage View Post
To quote the manual:

The secondary air supply system introduces filtered air into exhaust gases in the exhaust port. The secondary air is drawn whenever there is negative pressure pulse in the exhaust system. This charged secondary air promotes burning of the unburned exhaust gases and changes a considerable amount of hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide into relatively harmless carbon dioxide and water.
I remember reading that and perhaps a chemist could confirm this, because it's been a while since I've dealt with it, but if air is about 78% N2, wouldn't compounds like N2O which IIRC creates smog and other bad stuff then be released in higher quantities?

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 10:50 AM
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Rad... The manual is saying what I just did.

Kat, the catalytic converter deals with these things
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
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To quote the manual.
RTFM for the mudder fuggin win.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
Rad... The manual is saying what I just did.

Kat, the catalytic converter deals with these things
I thought so...I guess what I'm wondering is if for some reason or another the bike doesn't have a cat anymore, wouldn't extra air going into the exhaust be bad with respect to emissions?

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 11:25 AM
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Emissions are more harmful when the mixture is rich. So essentially yes. The pair essentially leans the mixture once its out of the combustion chamber.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 11:35 AM
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So is that a yes?

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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 11:41 AM
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Sorry. Pair will allow for less harmful emissions when used without a cat. Fuel burned completely is less harmful than fuel that burns in a rich condition
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 11:44 AM
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That's what I thought you meant.

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 11:46 AM
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Without having much more than a high school understanding of chemistry, instead of hybrids and electric vehicles why can't someone make a petroleum substitute or something?

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 01:14 PM
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cbrkat.... a (C or L) NG fueled engine?
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 02:22 PM
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cbrkat.... a (C or L) NG fueled engine?
I should've been more specific, I mean a substitute for light sweet crude that could be processed into the same products petroleum already is today.

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 03:13 PM
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the simple solution is energy density.

light crude has a massive amount of potential energy, and it doesn't take much energy expenditure to get it.

a lot of the other technologies that people are trying to get at require substantial energy expenditure just to get the fuel (hydrogen fuel cells come to mind).

electric is another issue because batteries aren't there yet when it comes to energy density, and they also require an energy injection from another energy source, which for the most part currently is fossil fuels.

the best solution honestly is nuclear. but the public won't allow that. so we're kinda fucked.
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
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the simple solution is energy density.

light crude has a massive amount of potential energy, and it doesn't take much energy expenditure to get it.

a lot of the other technologies that people are trying to get at require substantial energy expenditure just to get the fuel (hydrogen fuel cells come to mind).

electric is another issue because batteries aren't there yet when it comes to energy density, and they also require an energy injection from another energy source, which for the most part currently is fossil fuels.

the best solution honestly is nuclear. but the public won't allow that. so we're kinda fucked.
The other issue with electric, at least in America, is how inefficient the grid is; IIRC ~62% of the energy gone in gets lost to waste before it reaches the end user.

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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 06:02 PM
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Add to that the massive upgrades to the grid and generation to handle the millions of cars plugged in at night. And the fact that grid upgrades depend entirely on fossil fuel powered industries.

its a tough issue.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 07:12 PM
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Add to that the massive upgrades to the grid and generation to handle the millions of cars plugged in at night. And the fact that grid upgrades depend entirely on fossil fuel powered industries.

its a tough issue.
Indeed, a trillion dollar pill is never easy, and I'd be a bigger proponent of it if there wasn't such a consistent and well documented history of corruption and cronyism but in theory, it would reduce emissions generated from the dirtier sources (IIRC motor vehicles don't even make it in the top 10 list), and possibly could extend the supply of fossil fuels but as the equilibrium price shifts (likely downward) people will use more...I do believe the gas tax should be eliminated and instead build a tax in the annual registration dues based on the vehicle's weight. My understanding is that it's the weight or perhaps the psi under the contact patch that holds the strongest relation to road wear. But it'd make owning a motorcycle a lot cheaper so there's my bias. But aside from that, a Ferrari and a Tahoe may get similar gas mileage, but they definitely don't weigh a similar amount...at least they shouldn't.

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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 07:26 PM
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Smaller nuke plants, and reduced distances for the power to travel are excellent solutions. As a EE, I have a pretty good understanding of how the grid works. It's old, and crippled. It isn't going to take much to tip it over...again.
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 08:37 PM
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Every time I purpose an idea of energy allocation that includes nuclear everyone always mentions earthquakes at which point I can't help but roll my eyes because that happened like once, and people just have to accept there's a statistical probably for everything.

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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-25-2014, 08:39 PM
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That's when concepts called scenario and situation analysis are supposed to enter.

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