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Exhaust & Fuel Delivery Tips on how to get the most out of your bike

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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 02:40 AM Thread Starter
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race fuel

i did a search for some threads that already discuss this but didnt really see what i was looking for. ive been gradually using 116 race fuel for a few weeks now. started off at just one gallon mixed with 93. then did half and half, then a lil more than half/half, then back down to one gallon and rest 93. i know it makes your bike run real hot, and usually at lights ill turn the bike off. my question is, is it ok to be doing what ive been doing? i have a micron slip on and no pcIII. but i do notice a diff. ihavent had any problems and plan to keep on doing this. but what are yalls thoughts? thanks
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 02:42 AM
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You're running race fuel in the street? Why would you do that?!

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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 02:49 AM
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doesnt it hurt the bike more then helping it?
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 03:01 AM
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93 works for me
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
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i go to the track too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco
You're running race fuel in the street? Why would you do that?!
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 06:12 AM
 
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I use VP Ultimate 4 a.k.a(U4) 10 - 16% increase in power just from different fuel. VP Red would be another good choice for a stock 600 motor. Alot cheaper than U4. C-16 or 116 is alittle too much for the bike not really made for that. You may actually be losing power. Remember you dont always want that super high octane fuel. My U4 is only 92 octane and its one of the best. Two other good choice would be MR1 and MRX01, these are all VP brand fuels, thats all i use, if i were you though i would stay away from the 116. Just my suggestion.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 08:28 AM
 
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By running higher octane you are actually decreasing power in a stock 600. Higher octanes burns slower. If you have the bike Dynoed you will see a decrease in HP for the higher octane fuel. So save your money and your power. Use pump gas.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 09:41 AM
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+100, running race fuel on a near stock bike is too much.


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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 09:56 AM
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OveRRev, who is that in your sig kicking the crap out of his bike?

No more mod listing, shits is STILL too long

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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 10:24 AM
 
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89 octane from Shell, BP, Exxon, etc... Read the manual. Unless you have a bike with a custom map, and significant engine mods, you are doing more harm than good by running race fuel all the time.
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 10:31 AM
 
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Not all race fuel is bad for a stock bike, you just have to get the right fuel. If you put the right fuel in it, you will see an increase over pump gas. Also, not all race fuel is high octane. MR9 is only 87 octane and there are several others that are 92 octane and below. If you can run on MR9 without any spark knock you will be amazed at the change in the bike from pump gas. I dont run race fuel in my 600 only because it hasnt been to the track and it really is just my street and curve bike, but my ZX-9R that has the built motor always get race fuel because it runs at the strip 2 to 3 times a week.
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snikwad
OveRRev, who is that in your sig kicking the crap out of his bike?
you didn't notice? it's Hopper at Qatar after the Suzuki got tired & decided to stop for a rest, obviously Hopper isn't too happy about it.


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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 10:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KawiHonda
Not all race fuel is bad for a stock bike, you just have to get the right fuel. If you put the right fuel in it, you will see an increase over pump gas. Also, not all race fuel is high octane. MR9 is only 87 octane and there are several others that are 92 octane and below. If you can run on MR9 without any spark knock you will be amazed at the change in the bike from pump gas. I dont run race fuel in my 600 only because it hasnt been to the track and it really is just my street and curve bike, but my ZX-9R that has the built motor always get race fuel because it runs at the strip 2 to 3 times a week.
I am commenting on the fact that he is using 116 octane. Yes, you have a valid point about different types of fuel.
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OveRReV
you didn't notice? it's Hopper at Qatar after the Suzuki got tired & decided to stop for a rest, obviously Hopper isn't too happy about it.
ok, i thought it was him.
but my memory was playing tricks on me, since im still used to seeing Rizzla Suzuki's on superbikes.

No more mod listing, shits is STILL too long

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 10:57 AM
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Unless you have a power commander "r" model and some dyno time, you are wasting money and time.



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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 02:01 PM
 
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Higher octane does not give more power.... This is a common misconseption.
Higer octane fuels allow for a slower burn, allowing a high compression, turboed or supercharged engine (engines with a higher IMEP) to run without audible or inaudible knock. Basically if you think by dumping high octane fuel in your bike that you will gain power you are WRONG. All this will do is allow you to run your bike harder and hotter without the worry of engine knock.
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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 02:07 PM
 
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To get more power from fuel you need a more oxygenated fuel (a fuel that has more O2 molecules that gasoline).

Just use nitro. You can use up to 3% mix with no fuel equipment mods......
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 02:48 PM
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I was going to use Turbo Blue 110 at the strip next weekend in my bike.. but I guess thats a bad idea?? I ran 50/50 110/92 a couple weeks ago and it ran just fine and cleaned out a sputter that I had...

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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 04:16 PM
 
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The only problem with running leaded race fuels is:
Death to a catalitic converter, the lead clogs it up and will restrict exhaust flow (Cal. bike only)
As for normal bike it will creat bigger deposits than normal.
My advise is if you have a stock bike AKA your engine has not been opened up and worked on use 93, you wont need any more.

Although i do like the smell of leaded 110
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 07:12 AM
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Nitomethanol is one hell of a fuel to add to your gas in your bike. Dont use too much, as this stuff does not have the same expansion properties as regular gasoline.

It actually runs colder and can harm the engine over time. If you do decide to use Nitrometh, than use maybe half a pint, IF THAT

You are correct on fuel having more oxygen does help to boost performance. However here at sealevel we cannot get it :(

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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 07:23 AM
 
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Like i said 2-3% nitro is all you can do before increasing your fuel system.
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 08:11 AM
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This is turbo-blue that they use around here... its 110 octane non-leaded.. Don't know much about it except that some guys run it stragiht in thier bikes around here.. and some people even run it in regular street cars.... motor shop told me it just takes a little more compression to run the turbo blue.. which the RR is high enough.. (12.0:1) Just my last 2cents

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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 10:28 AM
 
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I never heard of the unleaded 110.
All we have in WI is the leaded 110

I guess the reason that bikes, at that compression ratio(12:1), differs from cars is that with a bike you lever lug it down. Even at low rpm's in a high gear there is hardly any load on the engine at WOT.

Cars are alot eaiser to bog down or lug. At WOT low rpm's the engine has it's peak IMEP. Therfore the cars engine would need higher octane to eliminate knock......
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-23-2006, 11:53 AM
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bikes can run way higher compression ratio than cars b'coz of the area of the piston, it's much smaller compared to automotive engines, try running 12.0:1 CR on a B16A engine & you'll hole a piston in no time with 93octane unleaded gas.

small piston allow the flame front to travel at less distance, you get a more complete burn, the bigger the piston the more spark advance you require that's why they run 2 plugs per cylinder on some V-Twins.


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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-24-2006, 07:57 AM
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Hey, OWDSCHOOL: go to www.turboblue.com/product.asp and check out turbo blue unleaded PLUS (I was wrong before, it's only 104.. not 110 like pure turbo blue)).. I also live in WI, and here in chilton we have one of those pumps

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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-24-2006, 05:03 PM
 
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You are not going to make anymore power with that over most pump gases. If your motor is stock stay away from anything that is high octane. Even though the MON of that fuel is 99 that is still higher than need unless you are running nitrous or something like that. If you are trying to make more power you need to find the lowest octane fuel your motor will run on without detination. I would search your area for a VP fuel dealer. Try Ultimate 4 that works great in motorcycles, if you want unleaded try VP Streetblaze 100 its MON is 96 octane. Just my 2 cents.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-24-2006, 08:19 PM
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Yeah, I suppose that makes sence

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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-24-2006, 11:21 PM
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Wow! Just Run Pump Gas In A Street Bike. All That High Octane Crap Is Bs. Vp Is Good Stuff If You Know What Your Doing And What Fuel Works Best For Your Application......nitromethane? Man I Have Grown Up Around Alky Dragsters And Meth And It Plays Hell On Your Internals. Bottom Line Is If You Dont Know What Your Doing With This Stuff Stay Away From It...if You Have More $$$$$$$$ Than Commen Sense Then Knock Yourself Out.

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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-24-2006, 11:23 PM
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If you want to make a high-power 4-stroke engine, there are a couple of different ways to accomplish your goal. One way is to increase the displacement. Another is to stuff more air into the engine with a turbocharger or a supercharger. If you want to go to extremes, you would replace gasoline altogether and use a more energetic fuel. Top fuel dragsters do all three.
A "nitro-burning" engine and a "top fuel" engine are the same thing -- engines designed to burn nitromethane rather than gasoline. Gasoline is a hydrocarbon, and the common chemical formula for gasoline is C8H18. Nitromethane has the formula CH3NO2. Nitromethane is a little like gasoline that has been pre-mixed with nitrous oxide. The fuel comes with its own oxygen atoms to help it burn.

The big advantage of nitromethane is that you can get a lot more power from each explosion inside the engine. Pound for pound, nitromethane is less energetic than gasoline, but you can burn a lot more nitromethane in a cylinder. The net result is more power per stroke. You typically need about 15 pounds of air to burn 1 pound of gasoline, whereas you need only 1.7 pounds of air to burn 1 pound of nitromethane. This means that, compared to gasoline, you can pump about 8 times more nitromethane into a cylinder of a given volume and still get complete combustion.

Since nitromethane is not as dense as gasoline in terms of energy, you do not get an 8-time improvement in terms of power. It is more like a 2.5-time improvement (see this page for a comparison). Still, you can double or triple your engine's horsepower simply by changing the fuel. That's a huge improvement!

A typical drag-racing engine has a displacement of 8.9 liters, is supercharged and produces about 6,000 horsepower. It can burn close to a gallon (4 liters) of nitromethane per second! To put that in perspective, there is something like 2 teaspoons (10 cc) of nitromethane being poured into each cylinder per intake stroke.

An interesting thing about nitromethane is that it does not burn as quickly as gasoline. In fact, there is not enough time to burn all of the nitromethane between when the spark plug fires and when the exhaust valve opens. So the engine is pumping still-burning nitromethane into the exhaust pipe. That's why you see flames shooting out of the exhaust of a drag-racing car.

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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-25-2006, 12:15 AM
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this is on http://www.rc51.org/

We've pretty much done the homework for you when it comes to testing various grades & brands of race fuels in the RC51 (or any other motorcycle for that part)

In hours & hours of dyno testing & Powercommander map building several key points were discovered some we intentionally set out to test others just came about on their own:

1. Standard Race Fuel (VP C12, C14, Sunoco 104, 100LL AvGas even high octane pump gas 96 or 100) ran straight on a stock RC51 motor will actually lose horsepower.

This is argued by many because the throttle response becomes crisper & is often mistaken for more performance when in truth the bike is making less power on the dyno sometimes by as much a 4-6hp. Many race fuels are designed for higher compression engines >13.0:1 & simply do not perform well in low compression motors like our RC51 (10.8:1). As has been noted many times on just about every sportbike forum on the net more octane does not mean more power! It simply means more resistance to detonation. If a higher octane fuel happens to make more power in a motor it is because of the additives in the fuel having the potential for more energy not just because it is higher octane.

What can be beneficial, but not always so is a blend of about 25/75 of race fuel & pump gas (1 gallon of race fuel added to 3 gallons of premium pump gas) which has been shown to consistently yield a horsepower or two. However I strongly urge you to stay away from the race fuels on a street bike if for no other reason than the extra contaminants it will leave in your motor. For me the cost of premature wear on the motor is not worth the negligible horsepower gains.

2. Oxygenated Race Fuels (Nutec #4, VP MR1 etc) can add 3-5hp without any fuel or mapping changes at all & 5-10hp sometimes even more on a stock motor with proper mapping & lots of playing around with the ignition timing. Some oxygenated fuels benefit from retarding the ignition while others benefit from advancing it.

The catch is that A. the stuff is really expensive usually about $15-$20 a gallon & B. it is highly corrosive & must be drained from your tank after each race weekend to keep it from eating parts of your fuel system. There are also horror stories of racers getting a bad batch of the stuff & ruining a set of carbs or throttle bodies due to a varnish that settles onto the components that is basically impossible to remove. I have actually witnessed this myself once & could not believe how bad it actually was.

There are some newer oxygenated fuels out now such as VP MR9 & Ultimate 4 which is claimed to be much less caustic to fuel system components (o-rings, gaskets etc..). I have sampled the MR9 & was very impressed with the performance & the Ultimate 4 is just plain awesome even in a stock motor plus at about $8 a gallon it's a pretty damn good deal. I've been mixing it about 50/50 on my stock engines & running it straight on my more built engines with excellent results. Not as powerful as the MR9, but nowhere near as expensive either.

3. In testing various grades of pump gas I consistently found that 87 octane fuel makes 1-2 more horsepower than those exact same bikes ran on Premium 93 octane. We tested five liter class motorcycles (97 CBR900RR, 02 Honda 919, 2000 RC51, 2000 GSXR750 & an 02 R1) & only the R1 seemed unaffected by the octane of the fuel. Now I am certainly not going to tell you to run less than the recommended octane (92) in your RC51 as the specific needs of the motor dictate that a higher octane fuel is needed, but the results are blatant in that more octane does not mean more power.

It is only fair that I note that when testing the pump gas on some of the 600's (Yamaha R6 & the GSXR600) the inverse was true in that they did lose a little horsepower on the 87 octane vs the 93 octane. Most likely because of the higher compression ratios of the smaller motors, however the CBR600F4i gained a little horsepower.

Additional notes (not tested on the dyno): Never add any type of octane boosters or fuel system cleaners to your motorcycle tank. Additives sold in auto stores are designed to treat anywhere from 16-22 gallons of fuel from one small bottle of concentrate & more often than not those chemicals are very hazardous to your motorcycles fuel system especially if the mix ratio is not absolutely perfect. I cannot tell you how many carb jobs I have done over the years because some yahoo dumped half a bottle (or more) of octane booster into his fuel tank. The bike runs great for awhile but within a day or two a varnish starts to set up on the fuel system components & it just gets worse from there. Run quality fuels & stay away from the additives period.

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