Getting bad gas mileage, why???? - 600RR.net
Exhaust & Fuel Delivery Tips on how to get the most out of your bike

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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-15-2016, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Getting bad gas mileage, why????

Okay guys so I have an 04 cbr600rr with 18k Miles. I don't pay attention to my fuel gauge since the float is stuck (long story, short, even after readjusting it, it would remain stuck). So it only reads for 4 bars and up, below that and it won't read.

I've only gone 75 miles since the last full tank and i'm a bit more then 3/4s down the tank. so I'm left with around 25% gas or less. I do regular commuting below 5k RPM. Before this occured luckily I checked how many miles I could go before the bike died, and it went 180 miles.

What can cause bad Gas mileage?

Spark Plugs: I'm sure they haven't been changed, i'm waiting on my wrench plug to come in so i could change it next week.

Air Filter: Still has stock air filter... I'm assuming its never been changed, I put it against the light and couldn't see anything through it.

Recent modifications/ changes: Jardine RT-One exhaust. It used to have a custom exhaust but it was basically straight pipe (literally).
Oil Change a few miles ago.
Coolant changed months ago before I noticed bad gas mileage.

Leaks: I haven't seen any leaks, I've gone under the tank to see if there is any build up and couldn't find any.

Fuel Tank: Completely clean, not rusted at all. (I did use at least 3 different gas companies before letting it die completely... If it's an issue...)

There is no smoke what's so ever at all.


WHAT COULD IT BE?
Air filter? Spark Plug? Faulty ECM? Faulty Pump? Dirty Injectors? Leaks?
I know those are causes, but could you guys help me pin point? Thanks!
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-15-2016, 08:54 PM
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That's probably what I would get too (about 290km). I fill up with the last bar flashing, put in 13L and it is around 220km (136mi).

I'm running -1/+2 520 conversion.

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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-15-2016, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Juzman View Post
That's probably what I would get too (about 290km). I fill up with the last bar flashing, put in 13L and it is around 220km (136mi).

I'm running -1/+2 520 conversion.

I'm on stock, but why did I get better gas mileage before??? I'm running almost 100 on a full tank.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-16-2016, 12:54 PM
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This probably won't be the main cause but check your brake calipers. Make sure the Pistons aren't completely gunked up causing them to drag on the rotors. If so, clean/rebuild them
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-16-2016, 04:03 PM
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If the float is stuck or not reading correctly, than how do you know you are getting bad gas mileage? You should do another "run the bike out of gas test" and see how far that gets you. I have found out through my experience that the gas gauge isn't super accurate to begin with.

Maybe your "problem" only occurred after you fiddled with the float. Maybe now it is reading differently and therefore there really is no problem with your mileage.

Lastly, if you are experiencing winter weather than mileage always goes down due to many rumored reasons. A factual reason would be that there is more wind drag due to denser air. A rumored reason would be that gas companies put more **** into their gas than usual.

Last edited by Polishblood; 02-16-2016 at 04:10 PM.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-16-2016, 04:05 PM
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Fill it all the way to the top and run it all the way dry before trying to decide if your mileage is off.

Estimating what is left in the tank is a wild goose chase waiting to happen.

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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-16-2016, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Polishblood View Post
If the float is stuck or not reading correctly, than how do you know you are getting bad gas mileage? You should do another "run the bike out of gas test" and see how far that gets you. I have found out through my experience that the gas gauge isn't super accurate to begin with.

Maybe your "problem" only occurred after you fiddled with the float. Maybe now it is reading differently and therefore there really is no problem with your mileage.

Lastly, if you are experiencing winter weather than mileage always goes down due to many rumored reasons. A factual reason would be that there is more wind drag due to denser air. A rumored reason would be that gas companies put more **** into their gas than usual.
I clearly stated by miles how low I am on the gas tank. I did not say I was going by how many bars my bike is showing. I physically looked at my tank. As I said before this occurred I got 180 miles (yes with the run out of gas test). However all of a sudden it's 100 miles, with the same riding style.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-17-2016, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 600-2x View Post
I clearly stated by miles how low I am on the gas tank. I did not say I was going by how many bars my bike is showing. I physically looked at my tank. As I said before this occurred I got 180 miles (yes with the run out of gas test). However all of a sudden it's 100 miles, with the same riding style.
You got 100 miles out of a full tank? Was there anything changed on the bike since you got 180miles/tank?

Something is way off if you're only getting 100miles per full tank.

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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-17-2016, 04:20 PM
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A rumored reason would be that gas companies put more **** into their gas than usual.
What rumors are you talking about? There are facts, like there is more ethonal in the gas in the winter for emissions. Its stated on the gas pumps with big signs, nothing rumor there.
You also have the engines revving much higher and for longer to warm up the engine quicker while at idle, this uses fuel.
Forget the air density causing more drag, it is adding more oxygen to the cylinder charge also causing more fuel to be added to keep the a/f ratio the same.
These all add up to less mileage in the winter.

I don't suggest running the bike out of gas. Pumps use the fuel to cool them, running them dry tends to kill them. Its much easier to fill up, drive 50 miles, then fill up at the same pump and see how much gas you put in and divide to get your answer.

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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-17-2016, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TribalCBR06 View Post
You got 100 miles out of a full tank? Was there anything changed on the bike since you got 180miles/tank?

Something is way off if you're only getting 100miles per full tank.
I can tell you Spark Plug has been over due and air filter... can't see a light through. You think replacing plugs and air filter will do the trick? I already have the spark plugs, just waiting on my tool.
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-19-2016, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 600-2x View Post
I clearly stated by miles how low I am on the gas tank. I did not say I was going by how many bars my bike is showing. I physically looked at my tank. As I said before this occurred I got 180 miles (yes with the run out of gas test). However all of a sudden it's 100 miles, with the same riding style.
The bolded statement quoted above, is what I was asking about. Perform the "run out of gas test" again. Physically looking into the tank and estimating how much gas you have left won't give you a good comparison.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 12:26 AM
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What rumors are you talking about? There are facts, like there is more ethonal in the gas in the winter for emissions. Its stated on the gas pumps with big signs, nothing rumor there.
You also have the engines revving much higher and for longer to warm up the engine quicker while at idle, this uses fuel.
Forget the air density causing more drag, it is adding more oxygen to the cylinder charge also causing more fuel to be added to keep the a/f ratio the same.
These all add up to less mileage in the winter.

I don't suggest running the bike out of gas. Pumps use the fuel to cool them, running them dry tends to kill them. Its much easier to fill up, drive 50 miles, then fill up at the same pump and see how much gas you put in and divide to get your answer.
I have never seen a sign stating that there is more ethanol during the winter, however, I have seen signs stating "Containing up to 10% Ethanol".

The high idle duration during the winter and summer are comparable within a few minutes. Air density/drag is 10 times more of a factor than more fuel being burned. More fuel being burned means more power and more power at the same rpm means you don't have to add throttle to get to a higher rpm, to get to a certain amount of power, to overcome a uphill gradient (for example). There is more parasitic loss of power at higher rpms therefore more power at the same rpm increases your mpg, as long as you are making use of that power. This is one major reason why the new corvette is able to achieve 30 mpg on the highway yet it makes 450 horsepower.

Remember air density/drag is not only affecting your outside drag coefficient but also it is affecting the drag coefficient within your intake.

Fuel pumps use fuel for "lubrication" not for cooling lol. I am just poking fun

You can use the drive and fill up method rather than the "run out of gas method" for the safety of your fuel pump however remember you must fill up to the EXACT same location as before. That means you have to consider how much your bike is leaning over when you fill up before the test and after the test. Also the more gas you have to fill up, the more accurate your mpg results will be. So I recommend at least using 3/4 of the tank.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 12:34 AM
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What rumors are you talking about? There are facts, like there is more ethonal in the gas in the winter for emissions. Its stated on the gas pumps with big signs, nothing rumor there.
You also have the engines revving much higher and for longer to warm up the engine quicker while at idle, this uses fuel.
Forget the air density causing more drag, it is adding more oxygen to the cylinder charge also causing more fuel to be added to keep the a/f ratio the same.
These all add up to less mileage in the winter.

I don't suggest running the bike out of gas. Pumps use the fuel to cool them, running them dry tends to kill them. Its much easier to fill up, drive 50 miles, then fill up at the same pump and see how much gas you put in and divide to get your answer.
I have never seen a sign stating that there is more ethanol during the winter, however, I have seen signs stating "Containing up to 10% Ethanol".

The high idle duration during the winter and summer are comparable within a few minutes. Air density/drag is 10 times more of a factor than more fuel being burned. More fuel being burned means more power and more power at the same rpm means you don't have to add throttle to get to a higher rpm, to get to a certain amount of power, to overcome a uphill gradient (for example). There is more parasitic loss of power at higher rpms therefore more power at the same rpm increases your mpg, as long as you are making use of that power. This is one major reason why the new corvette is able to achieve 30 mpg on the highway yet it makes 450 horsepower.

Remember air density/drag is not only affecting your outside drag coefficient but also it is affecting the drag coefficient within your intake.

Fuel pumps use fuel for "lubrication" not for cooling lol. I am just poking fun

You can use the drive and fill up method rather than the "run out of gas method" for the safety of your fuel pump however remember you must fill up to the EXACT same location as before. That means you have to consider how much your bike is leaning over when you fill up before the test and after the test. Also the more gas you have to fill up, the more accurate your mpg results will be. So I recommend at least using 3/4 of the tank.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Polishblood View Post
That means you have to consider how much your bike is leaning over when you fill up before the test and after the test. Also the more gas you have to fill up, the more accurate your mpg results will be. So I recommend at least using 3/4 of the tank.
I use Fuelly to log my fuel ups, works a treat. Never try and run under 1/4 in anybof my vehicles.

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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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I have never seen a sign stating that there is more ethanol during the winter, however, I have seen signs stating "Containing up to 10% Ethanol".

The high idle duration during the winter and summer are comparable within a few minutes. Air density/drag is 10 times more of a factor than more fuel being burned. More fuel being burned means more power and more power at the same rpm means you don't have to add throttle to get to a higher rpm, to get to a certain amount of power, to overcome a uphill gradient (for example). There is more parasitic loss of power at higher rpms therefore more power at the same rpm increases your mpg, as long as you are making use of that power. This is one major reason why the new corvette is able to achieve 30 mpg on the highway yet it makes 450 horsepower.

Remember air density/drag is not only affecting your outside drag coefficient but also it is affecting the drag coefficient within your intake.

Fuel pumps use fuel for "lubrication" not for cooling lol. I am just poking fun

You can use the drive and fill up method rather than the "run out of gas method" for the safety of your fuel pump however remember you must fill up to the EXACT same location as before. That means you have to consider how much your bike is leaning over when you fill up before the test and after the test. Also the more gas you have to fill up, the more accurate your mpg results will be. So I recommend at least using 3/4 of the tank.
I feel like you guys are just trying to tease me lol, yes I do check the tank every single time ONLY when it's standing up straight!
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Here is a picture of my spark plugs I changed them last night, you guys think this was the main cause lol, looks long overdue
[IMG][/IMG]
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-20-2016, 11:12 AM
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I feel like you guys are just trying to tease me lol, yes I do check the tank every single time ONLY when it's standing up straight!
I believe you are misreading what I am saying. In general what I am aiming at is that you can't accurately compare your previous "run out of gas results" to your current by eye 1/4 gas results due to so many factors (that were state above). There is a possibly you have no problem and you are simply being too sensitive.

Also, when taking a picture of your spark plugs, take a picture of the tips. The condition of everything else is not as important. At this point, I would replace the spark plugs since you already have the bike apart.

Last edited by Polishblood; 02-21-2016 at 09:25 AM.
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I believe you are misreading what I am saying. In general what I am aiming at is that you can't accurately compare your previous "run out of gas results" to your current by eye 1/4 gas results due to so many factors (that were state above). There is a possibly you have no problem and you are simply being too sensitive.

Also, when taking a picture of your spark plugs, take a picture of the tips. The condition of everything is not as important. At this point, I would replace the spark plugs since you already have the bike apart.
Sorry buddy, got kind of confused on what you were saying lol, but I replaced the spark plugs last night, here is a picture of it

Last edited by 600-2x; 02-20-2016 at 11:33 AM. Reason: add photo
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No, the plugs are/were not the issue.

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No, the plugs are/were not the issue.
Please elaborate. The plugs are well overdue and with the new plugs it does feel a bit better. Can it be dirty air filter? I checked it and can barely see a light through it, i'm going to replace it soon.
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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 03:51 PM
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I have never seen a sign stating that there is more ethanol during the winter, however, I have seen signs stating "Containing up to 10% Ethanol".
Out here in AZ they say the ethonol is only added [or they add alot more, now I dont remember and need to check lol] during the winter times to "help reduce emissions".

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I feel like you guys are just trying to tease me lol, yes I do check the tank every single time ONLY when it's standing up straight!
haha no just tech talk. As for your plugs, while they are pretty ugly and could cause a very slight running change [I can feel it on the f4i but I've ridden it over 76k miles] but they don't normally cause big mileage changes. Maybe 1-2mpg but not what your seeing.

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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 03:57 PM
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What's so hard about figuring out MPG? Fill the tank, ride around recording total number of miles. Fill tank. Divide miles ridden by gallons used.
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 06:47 PM
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What's so hard about figuring out MPG? Fill the tank, ride around recording total number of miles. Fill tank. Divide miles ridden by gallons used.
It isn't hard. I just prefer Fuelly. Keep a better record of my mileage. :-)

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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-21-2016, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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What's so hard about figuring out MPG? Fill the tank, ride around recording total number of miles. Fill tank. Divide miles ridden by gallons used.
According to the 2 gallons while I had the old spark plugs it was 28MPG, I filled it up to the top to see if it changed with my new spark plugs, my new air filter is arriving in a few days. I just went with OEM considering if I go with aftermarket I would need Power Commander.
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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-22-2016, 09:12 AM
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Please elaborate. The plugs are well overdue and with the new plugs it does feel a bit better. Can it be dirty air filter? I checked it and can barely see a light through it, i'm going to replace it soon.
It's been well explained above my response and below it: plugs in the shape yours are in are not responsible for your bad mileage. You need to run the tank down, fill it back up all the way, run it down again and see how much it takes to fill. You can't do half tanks or estimates because when you are talking 1 or 2 gallons used if you fill up even slightly different your margin of error is huge.

My guess is you either got a bad tank of gas, filled up differently than you did last time or somehow used more gas by driving differently. While 28mpg isn't great it's not that far off from "normal" and changes to mpg don't happen "suddenly" by things wearing out.

Have you changed anything else on the bije we don't know about? Brakes dragging? Tire on crooked? Did the bike fall over? Just looking at ideas.

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I just went with OEM considering if I go with aftermarket I would need Power Commander.
Not true.

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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 02-22-2016, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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It's been well explained above my response and below it: plugs in the shape yours are in are not responsible for your bad mileage. You need to run the tank down, fill it back up all the way, run it down again and see how much it takes to fill. You can't do half tanks or estimates because when you are talking 1 or 2 gallons used if you fill up even slightly different your margin of error is huge.

My guess is you either got a bad tank of gas, filled up differently than you did last time or somehow used more gas by driving differently. While 28mpg isn't great it's not that far off from "normal" and changes to mpg don't happen "suddenly" by things wearing out.

Have you changed anything else on the bije we don't know about? Brakes dragging? Tire on crooked? Did the bike fall over? Just looking at ideas.



Not true.
The only "mod" i've done was my jardine rt-one slip on, previous to that it had a straight pipe (changed it because of the horrible sound it creates) which is when I succeeded 180 miles. Supposedly 1.5-2 rotations on the front wheel lifted is the normal brake drag. The bike fell over with the previous owner but only parked. I know he wasn't lying because I was there when it occured (he was my friend). I recently had a tire change done by my mechanic, balanced and everything, however the problem persisted beforehand.

There are no leaks. If it makes a difference, I live in Florida, the sunshine state. However during the time that bad gas mileage occurred is around cold weather. (maybe not cold to you lol). So my bike would idle at higher rpms like 2K until it was up to operating temperature to 1.3-1.5k. The weather here is on and off, goes from 50-60 from 80-70 and then random rain. Recently the weather has been normal so the bike hasn't idled at higher rpms compared to when it was cooler.

As for as "contains up to 10% more ethanol," every gas station i've been to down here has that sign. For my recent fill up I went to "Chevron with Techron."

EDIT: I always fill to the very top for every fuel up
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I can tell you Spark Plug has been over due and air filter... can't see a light through. You think replacing plugs and air filter will do the trick? I already have the spark plugs, just waiting on my tool.
Its probably not the plugs or filter (although that can possibly be one of the factors).

To be honest, I never changed the plugs and air filter on my 06RR. It had 35,000 miles when I sold it and everything engine-wise was the same since I bought it from brand new the dealer with 6miles. My mpg was pretty consistent at around 30-35mpg depending on riding style.

Anyway, try figuring out your mpg a few more times in the same exact manner as some people described. What I do is, I fill up the tank all the way, reset your trip meter, then ride until the low-gas light comes on. Then I fill up the tank noting how much gas I am able to put in. Divide the miles with how many gallons it took to fill up and there's your answer.

For example, if the trip meter shows 120miles when the low gas light comes on, and you filled up with 4gallons, your average mpg is 30mpg

Does your low-gas light warning work?

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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TribalCBR06 View Post
What I do is, I fill up the tank all the way, reset your trip meter, then ride until the low-gas light comes on. Then I fill up the tank noting how much gas I am able to put in. Divide the miles with how many gallons it took to fill up and there's your answer.
The Fuelly app makes this so much easier. Type in odometer, amount of fuel, and cost.

Works it all out, and can keep a record. :-)

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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Juzman View Post
The Fuelly app makes this so much easier. Type in odometer, amount of fuel, and cost.

Works it all out, and can keep a record. :-)
Yeah, because resetting the trip meter at every fill up and doing some quick math is such a labor intensive PITA.........

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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2016, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Miweber929 View Post
Yeah, because resetting the trip meter at every fill up and doing some quick math is such a labor intensive PITA.........


Fuelly is cool if you want a place to track your mpg's.

I just plug everything on my phone right there at the gas station. So much easier.

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