Melting fairings please help - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Melting fairings please help

Went to wash the bike the other day and noticed right lower melted in 2. I've owned this bike since 2013 with 700 miles it now has over 18000 miles and it just started getting to hot around the fairings. I thought the solution would be to wrap the headers and put heat shield on the inside of all the lower fairings, it still seams way to hot. It's starting to melt the heat shield just letting the bike sit idle in the drive way for 10 or 15 minutes. It does have a akrapovich slip on that's been on for over 2 years. Does anybody have any idea why it is all of a sudden doing this or what a fix is for it. Thanks for your time and any helpful advice would be greatly appreciated
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:16 PM
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Why let it idle for 15 mins ?

I would figure you would need some airflow after 2-3 minutes?
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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I figured it's going to get to its hottest point stopped and before I go take it out and melt another fairing when I'm at a red light I'd test it in my driveway
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:24 PM
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It should be able to idle at a stop indefinitely without doing this.

The catalytic converter would get hot enough to melt my race fairings, however the headers never did this with street or track fairings.

Wrapping pipes does cause the exhaust gas to stay hotter as it moves through the exhaust system, so the gas will be more hot overall, but of course the wrapped areas should radiate less heat to the outside.

However, adding the wrap to the pipes seems to have increased their size just a bit and now the pipe is sitting very close to the fairings. Perhaps just close enough to cause this melting. Just a couple millimeters can mean the difference between melting or not.

However, you're saying it did this even before you put the wrap on?
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, it did it before and that's why I put the wrap and heat shield on and the header started melting the heat shield after 10 minutes
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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And yes these are oem fairings. Can someone take a picture of there's and see how close their header is to the fairing?
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 10:27 PM
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Weird. How does the bike run otherwise? The only thing I know of that can cause heat like that would be a very lean mixture.

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 12:45 AM
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And yes these are oem fairings. Can someone take a picture of there's and see how close their header is to the fairing?

Exactly what I was going to say before I read the rest of the thread...are you sure those headers are right for that bike?
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 01:10 AM
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You can't really swap headers between bikes; engines are extremely specific. Aftermarket systems can have slightly different routing.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 08:54 AM
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On my 08 the headers seem to almost be touching the fairings and no melting. I can take a pic if you want.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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Yes these header have been on here for at least 3 years. Everything has been the same for 3 years
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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On my 08 the headers seem to almost be touching the fairings and no melting. I can take a pic if you want.
Yes please
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Weird. How does the bike run otherwise? The only thing I know of that can cause heat like that would be a very lean mixture.
The bike runs great. Running lean would be to much air correct?
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 01:23 PM
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The bike runs great. Running lean would be to much air correct?
Not enough fuel/too much air.

Plugged/restricted exhaust, exhaust valve lash issue? Pair valve issue? I'm just spitballing but I would talk to a very experienced bike mechanic (or auto mechanic) to get an idea as to what will commonly cause a header pipe(s) to get too hot.

This premise is based on the fact that nothing else has changed and that the issue just appeared.

Have you ever lashed the valves on it? I know on mine, with 24 thousand miles on it, the exhausts were all 3 or 4 thou below spec. This will keep the valves from seating and this is how exhaust valves burn. Whether or not that would cause the pipes to run too hot - I don't know. A good mechanic with a lot of experience should be able to help narrow that down.

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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Arjay67 View Post
Not enough fuel/too much air.

Plugged/restricted exhaust, exhaust valve lash issue? Pair valve issue? I'm just spitballing but I would talk to a very experienced bike mechanic (or auto mechanic) to get an idea as to what will commonly cause a header pipe(s) to get too hot.

This premise is based on the fact that nothing else has changed and that the issue just appeared.

Have you ever lashed the valves on it? I know on mine, with 24 thousand miles on it, the exhausts were all 3 or 4 thou below spec. This will keep the valves from seating and this is how exhaust valves burn. Whether or not that would cause the pipes to run too hot - I don't know. A good mechanic with a lot of experience should be able to help narrow that down.
I have not lashed the valves nor do I know what it is. I will definitely be doing research and taking a look into it. Nothing has changed that I'm aware of. I do have a pcv that I mapped myself 3 years ago when I put the slip on on. Maybe somehow the map got messed up. Thanks. I'm open to ideas I'm lost with it.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 06:43 PM
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Id look at your temp gauge and see if your bike is going way above normal operating temperature and also see if it doesnt shut off, when a bike gets to a certain temp it will shut off, I never let my bike idle because they need the air flow just my 2cents

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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 09:38 PM
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I have not lashed the valves nor do I know what it is. I will definitely be doing research and taking a look into it. Nothing has changed that I'm aware of. I do have a pcv that I mapped myself 3 years ago when I put the slip on on. Maybe somehow the map got messed up. Thanks. I'm open to ideas I'm lost with it.
Easiest thing to do would be to take the PCV out of it and then run it. The only thing I'm aware of that could melt exhaust would be an extreme lean condition. I kind of screwed up, I was just at a race track where I ran into people that are very knowledgeable about these things and I forgot to ask them All the Ferrari's and Lamborghini's and McLaren's were messing with my head. I'll make a point to ask a buddy tomorrow about it, he will know what the common causes are of overheating exhaust and what to look for.

I wouldn't be surprised if you could just unplug the PCV at the box to revert the bike back to stock in an effort to eliminate it from the equation. Lean is the only thing that comes to mind for me, and in that respect, the PCV could easily do it as it interferes with the OE fuelling.

Just my .02 - hope it helps.

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 09:58 PM
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Sorry so late. Let me go get a pic. http://s1350.photobucket.com/user/Di...Cider/library/

The headers are about 1/2" from the plastic. If you cant open the photobucket let me know.

Thanks!

Last edited by dixon cider; 09-18-2016 at 10:29 PM.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-21-2016, 02:37 AM
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First off, never warm up sport/supersport bikes that way. 3 minutes at most before beginning to ride because the engine, made from aluminum, will develop hot spots and things like the cylinder head can potentially warp; the exhaust headers face the front so the forward motion (ideally) distributes the heat evenly throughout.

Now on to the issue...to be clear, this is occurring where the collectors are correct?

I'd like to know what other mods the bike has, as well as what service has been done and by whom, but I'm guessing the PAIR delete hasn't...something I recommend not doing but that's a separate topic.

I suppose valves not seating properly could possibly be the culprit, especially if the PAIR delete hasn't been done, but that'll also likely cause compression loss and unless it's nearly even across all cylinders you'll probably notice it and would be posting about that instead lol (a leakdown test may be a good idea anyways on a bike of this age)

I'm leaning towards the fuel map needing adjustment and my advice is to have the bike pro-tuned...they'll use a wideband O2 sensor so if the AFR on your initial run is super high, then that's what's causing your EGT's to get hot enough to cause the melting and a proper tune should do the trick.
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-21-2016, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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First off, never warm up sport/supersport bikes that way. 3 minutes at most before beginning to ride because the engine, made from aluminum, will develop hot spots and things like the cylinder head can potentially warp; the exhaust headers face the front so the forward motion (ideally) distributes the heat evenly throughout.

Now on to the issue...to be clear, this is occurring where the collectors are correct?

I'd like to know what other mods the bike has, as well as what service has been done and by whom, but I'm guessing the PAIR delete hasn't...something I recommend not doing but that's a separate topic.

I suppose valves not seating properly could possibly be the culprit, especially if the PAIR delete hasn't been done, but that'll also likely cause compression loss and unless it's nearly even across all cylinders you'll probably notice it and would be posting about that instead lol (a leakdown test may be a good idea anyways on a bike of this age)

I'm leaning towards the fuel map needing adjustment and my advice is to have the bike pro-tuned...they'll use a wideband O2 sensor so if the AFR on your initial run is super high, then that's what's causing your EGT's to get hot enough to cause the melting and a proper tune should do the trick.
Thanks for your knowledge as far as mods, nothing new in the last 2 years just a pcv and a z-bomb. I've now took it out on the highway 2 times since wrapping the headers and putting the heatshield on and no more melting. Just a thought what do you think the chances are something on the road got caught up in the header by the fairing and I had a small fire that melted the fairing?
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-21-2016, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrkat28 View Post
First off, never warm up sport/supersport bikes that way. 3 minutes at most before beginning to ride because the engine, made from aluminum, will develop hot spots and things like the cylinder head can potentially warp; the exhaust headers face the front so the forward motion (ideally) distributes the heat evenly throughout.

Now on to the issue...to be clear, this is occurring where the collectors are correct?

I'd like to know what other mods the bike has, as well as what service has been done and by whom, but I'm guessing the PAIR delete hasn't...something I recommend not doing but that's a separate topic.

I suppose valves not seating properly could possibly be the culprit, especially if the PAIR delete hasn't been done, but that'll also likely cause compression loss and unless it's nearly even across all cylinders you'll probably notice it and would be posting about that instead lol (a leakdown test may be a good idea anyways on a bike of this age)

I'm leaning towards the fuel map needing adjustment and my advice is to have the bike pro-tuned...they'll use a wideband O2 sensor so if the AFR on your initial run is super high, then that's what's causing your EGT's to get hot enough to cause the melting and a proper tune should do the trick.
Thanks for your knowledge as far as mods, nothing new in the last 2 years just a pcv and a z-bomb. I've now took it out on the highway 2 times since wrapping the headers and putting the heatshield on and no more melting. Just a thought what do you think the chances are something on the road got caught up in the header by the fairing and I had a small fire that melted the fairing?
If the radiator is in front of the headers like mine then pretty slim.
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-21-2016, 10:37 PM
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Spoke to my cousin about it (shop owner with decades of experience and drag racer) and the only two things he could think of were retarded timing and, as mentioned, running lean.

Wrapping the headers is not a solution - it's treating the symptom which means the underlying issue will remain.

In stock form these bikes can idle all day long with no ill effects. By design.

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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2016, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help I think my next step is to get it on the dyno which I've wanted to do anyways just not up to leave my bike at any shop out of my site and they all seem to want me to drop it off for a day or 2. Thanks again.
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