gas tank question - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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gas tank question

I recently noticed some carbon build-up or some type of film that is building up inside my gas tank on the top of the circular metal piece (which lets you know you fueled up to the top) is this normal? i have 2300 miles, first oil change done at 600 miles. just wondering if it was an issue, i use 89 octane.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 04:00 PM
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h'ok, first stop using 89 Octane if your compression and advance timing is stock.

second, it's def. black, or is it dark brown? I'm just thinking it could be gasoline varnish.
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 04:48 PM
 
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Ive never understood why people cant afford that tiny diff between reguler or supreme fuel.. Mind boggling actually..
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 04:50 PM
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Because Regular is 87 PON and Supreme is 89 PON... there's no quality difference between the two. i think you should investigate WHY it's Supreme.
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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i looked more like lead, i tried to clean it but its stuck on there, so i assumed it was carbon build up. knightslugger, which octane do you recommend? i used 91 the first couple times, then i read it was ok to use 87, started using 87, and just recently (last fillup) i used 89.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 06:38 PM
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Not only is it ok to run 87 (with the bike in stock compression form) it's recommended by Honda to maximize performance. The bike is tuned, from Honda, to run on 87 PON gasoline. If you want to use 89 or 91, you must RE-tune your bike so that it will get everything that Octane gasoline has. The higher the octane, the higher and/or more advance timing the engine will have, the more power you'll get. Otherwise you're not using 100% of that fuel and you'll find that your performance is lethargic, and your MPG will be lower.
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 07:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslugger
Because Regular is 87 PON and Supreme is 89 PON... there's no quality difference between the two. i think you should investigate WHY it's Supreme.
Maybe Im retarded but what does PON happen to stand for?
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 07:15 PM
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Pump Octane Number. It's also called (R+M)/2 Method since the US can't make up their minds on who's standard to use.
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 07:39 PM
 
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Maybe Im the only 1, but my manual says use 91 or higher octane..
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 08:29 PM
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91 RON, not PON. RON will always be higher than PON and MON will always be lower. A 91 RON is the same as a 84-85 MON. to get the PON number, you use the (R+M)/2 method. this equals out to be 87.5-88 PON.

You have got to remember, there are three standards on this planet. RON, MON and PON. The one in the book is RON. All gas pumps in this Country (USA) will be PON unless otherwise specified AT THE PUMP.

Last edited by Knightslugger; 02-08-2007 at 08:31 PM.
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 08:46 PM
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I thinks the confusion comes from people not knowing the difference between the PON and RON. I know I didn't till I joined .net. Also on my bike under the seat it says 91 RON, in the manual it says 87 octane . So my point is people see that under the seat and assume 91 octane. Because they don't know about PON and RON. Then they get all high and mighty when you tell them they are wastin' money buying high/premium grade gas.

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2007, 09:14 PM
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I personally don't think it's about wasting money, but rather wasting performance and gasoline. Using a higher Octane fuel when your engine requires a lower one will net you less MPG (more Gasoline out the tail pipe, literally) and crappier performance.

i could care less about the cost.
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-09-2007, 12:44 AM
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Wow I had no clue knightslugger, thanks for the quick lesson :)
I will stop using the higher grade fuel since its the wrong thing to do.
So just to clarify in the U.S. I should be using the 87 octane pump, correct?
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-09-2007, 02:26 AM
 
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well, your performance will not be maximized if u use just 87 octane. u do NOT have to re-tune your bike to run 89 or 91..your bike will simply compensate for the octane(volatility) in the gas. that is to get the best MPG and best emissions. the manual calls for 86 or higher wether our bikes are a speed density system or a MAF..the bike has an ECU to calculate its best performance power, MPG, emissions. etc....your fine with anything 86 or higher honda designed the bike this way..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslugger
Not only is it ok to run 87 (with the bike in stock compression form) it's recommended by Honda to maximize performance. The bike is tuned, from Honda, to run on 87 PON gasoline. If you want to use 89 or 91, you must RE-tune your bike so that it will get everything that Octane gasoline has. The higher the octane, the higher and/or more advance timing the engine will have, the more power you'll get. Otherwise you're not using 100% of that fuel and you'll find that your performance is lethargic, and your MPG will be lower.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-09-2007, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrmikeymikes
well, your performance will not be maximized if u use just 87 octane. u do NOT have to re-tune your bike to run 89 or 91..your bike will simply compensate for the octane(volatility) in the gas. that is to get the best MPG and best emissions. the manual calls for 86 or higher wether our bikes are a speed density system or a MAF..the bike has an ECU to calculate its best performance power, MPG, emissions. etc....your fine with anything 86 or higher honda designed the bike this way..
and how does the bike know what fuel it's running again? The ECU is programed, much the same way race bikes are programed, to run a certain type of fuel. Honda programed the ECU for (ok fine) 86 PON. you can run higher octane fuels sure, but the bike cannot use all of it, thus, performance will suffer in both power and fuel economy. I've seen this first hand. before i knew the differences of fuels and what they effect, i tried a tank of 91. I usually get about 170 miles before i refuel, but with that tank and the same back and forth riding i normally do, i only got 140. went back to 87 KABOOM back up to ~170.
post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-09-2007, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslugger
I personally don't think it's about wasting money, but rather wasting performance and gasoline. Using a higher Octane fuel when your engine requires a lower one will net you less MPG (more Gasoline out the tail pipe, literally) and crappier performance.

i could care less about the cost.
I see your point and agree, I just meant that that is how people take it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslugger
and how does the bike know what fuel it's running again? The ECU is programed, much the same way race bikes are programed, to run a certain type of fuel. Honda programed the ECU for (ok fine) 86 PON. you can run higher octane fuels sure, but the bike cannot use all of it, thus, performance will suffer in both power and fuel economy. I've seen this first hand. before i knew the differences of fuels and what they effect, i tried a tank of 91. I usually get about 170 miles before i refuel, but with that tank and the same back and forth riding i normally do, i only got 140. went back to 87 KABOOM back up to ~170.
Totally agree. I had similar experiences. All my riding buddies were filling up using 93 octane and I was too. Then I read on here about ratings and changed to 87 octane. If we were out riding and stopped for gas and all topped off then went out again they would start to be low on gas before I was. Two of the guys I ride with have 600rr one is an '03 and the other an '05. That was all the proof I needed.

Also I noticed when I used 93 octane that the bike seemed to lag right at the point when I would twist the throttle back. Basically a hesitation then it felt normal but when I switched back to 87 it did not feel this way. I confirmed this when I filled up with 93 again. My boy had started to pump 93 and told me he would fill up my bike so I pulled forward and he topped me off. It wasn't until I went to hang the nozzle up that I realized he had pumped 93. A little while later on the highway when I was merging into traffic and punched it that I noticed the lag.

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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-09-2007, 07:39 PM
 
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right right but the bike has oxygen sensors to read its fuel mixture and bump timing +/- ....the more octane the less volatility(burns slower) so the igniton would compensate for that to get its best MPG power and emissions...see the bike will use all of it you also have to realize that if the bike has a speed density system(could B MAF i dunno) certain weather conditions will effect performance as well, colder air is more dense therefore more air comes in the same amount of time. the bike is always looking for its stoichiometric A/F ratio, 14.7:1 (best emissions, power, mpg under the circumstances)
















Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslugger
and how does the bike know what fuel it's running again? The ECU is programed, much the same way race bikes are programed, to run a certain type of fuel. Honda programed the ECU for (ok fine) 86 PON. you can run higher octane fuels sure, but the bike cannot use all of it, thus, performance will suffer in both power and fuel economy. I've seen this first hand. before i knew the differences of fuels and what they effect, i tried a tank of 91. I usually get about 170 miles before i refuel, but with that tank and the same back and forth riding i normally do, i only got 140. went back to 87 KABOOM back up to ~170.
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-09-2007, 08:03 PM
 
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its all good im not trying to call u out or anything but with our knowledge we will get the best answer....
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