No Top End Torque?! Sad reality of the CBR - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-05-2015, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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No Top End Torque?! Sad reality of the CBR

I have been researching everywhere to find out if there is any way to make our bike competitive with the R6. I tried my buddy's R6 on the track, and it just pulls so hard out of the corner where the 600rr starts to die off after 12,000RPM. My buddy was like "That's why R6 the best!" I like 600rr and I don't felt like changing bike just cuz it has top end torque.

I want to know if any of you tried or know any way to increase the top end torque on our bike. I don't want to touch the engine internals as it's expensive to do and I'm not doing any pro racing to justify the cost of modifying the internals.

I am playing with sprockets setting and that didn't give much improvement. In fact, I will loose mid-range torque in the corner as RPMs drop below the power band, but I do get more top speed from the same gear now without shifting up.

I know IRC has been a popular choice, but a lot of people said that it only works when you WOT. ECU mod was another suggestion I know of, but I kind of want to leave the option last as it's not cheap to do as well.

I do apologized for being very picky on planning this as I like to explore every options to the uttermost to really understand the pros and cons of different adjustments.

Thanks guy~~
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 12:40 AM
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To answer your question... simply, if you want more top end you need to go into the engine. That's it.

You can try to do the little things you mention, but you won't get much in the way of appreciable gains
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 04:24 AM
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Full exhaust system and fuel controller helps a lot.

My bike used to taper off after 12k now it keeps pulling until rev limiter.

If that's still not enough, then you need to go into the internals.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 07:49 AM
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First off, let's start with the basics: what year is your bike, what mods have you done, what mileage do you have on it, etc. Then the same for your buddies R6. Unless we know that info no way can you be told what to do to help; it seems like from your responses you have an 09+, I'll go with that for now.

To clarify a bit as well, moving forward you're looking for more horsepower, not torque from your bike. Torque is generally described as the force to get you going and horsepower is what gets you going faster so think if it as when you're taking off from a dead stop torque is what moves you off the line, HP brings you up to speed. I just don't want you to be searching and thinking torque when that's not what you're looking for.

Best things for that bike to pull and feel smooth all the way up to redline are:

- make sure you're preventative maint is up to date. Air filter, coolant, brake pads, oil, tires, everything is up to spec, rolling freely, not worn, eat., plugs are good, etc. nothing can make a bike struggle than trashed wheel bearing, old plugs, shagged tires and a plugged air filter.

- do complete research. An ECU swap for a 09+ is cheap (I have one sitting in a box I never used I paid like $75 for) and the Zbomb units are $50 and work very well for restoring the lost power of an 09+. What it does is trick the ECU into thinking the throttle never reaches fully open so it won't retard the power curve, it can help in all speeds and throttle situations, not just WOT.

- you are looking to get major power for not much money and not opening the motor, not happening. End of story. The R6 is a stouter top end power bike from the original design and manufactures don't leave much overhead power anymore just waiting to be tapped into so it's not easy to find it on a bike not designed to have it.

- things that will help: FULL exhaust (but a QUALITY race unit, not like a TBR or Toce fart can slip on) with a matching Power Commander and custom reputable race tune, 07/08 ECU or Zbomb, gearing (-1/+2 will feel more lively at the expense of overall top speed) and a quality race air filter. There are other things out there but these will give you solid results that are proven to work.

- don't chase the unicorn. Even if you spend $1400 on a full Akra exhaust, $350 on a PCV, $300 on a dyno tune and $100 on a BMC filter you'll see maybe 5-7hp increase, that's 5%.

The best thing you can do is learn to ride what YOU have and to its strengths and not worry about your buddy's bike. Shift earlier, pick lines that suit your power and and he'll you get the drive started earlier, things like that. Do as many days at the track as you can to be a better rider. If the power of the R6 is what you want then get one, you'll be far happier in the end.

But tell us more about your bike and your buddies bike, might be more ideas out there.

Mike
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
To answer your question... simply, if you want more top end you need to go into the engine. That's it.

You can try to do the little things you mention, but you won't get much in the way of appreciable gains
This. If the issue you have to face is the dropoff you need to start with a full exhaust AND mod engine as well. Cams for example. It gets expensive.

The CBR has a completely different character than R6, as far as 600s go. It does have a few + over the R6, but if those are not the ones you want it could be better to trade for the R6. That's what I would do in your shoes anyway.

Last edited by GConn; 02-06-2015 at 08:05 AM.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Miweber929 View Post

The best thing you can do is learn to ride what YOU have and to its strengths and not worry about your buddy's bike.
This is the best answer you're going to get.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 08:57 AM
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get back on the throttle earlier.


:P
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 12:26 PM
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Apart from acceleration off the corners how did you like the R6 compared to the 600RR? They both do have their relative strengths. The 600RR doesn't suck. It just won the World Supersport Title this year but you or I probably couldn't afford what they put into that motor to make it compete at that level. At the stock level the R6 has more top end. That's why it's more favored these days at club level racing. What are your goals? Are you racing? If so maybe get an R6. Will cost you less to be competitive horsepower wise. Are you just racing your friend at trackdays? Then it ain't the bike. Take a look at this. This year's Moto2 Champion circulating at his home track in Spain on a CBR600RR. His run starts around 2:50. Makes those guys running 1000's look like they're plodding. Rides that 600RR like it's a big 125. So smooth. Crazy corner speed. Guaranteed if you could ride your 600RR like that your friend on his R6 would be gasping for air.

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 02-08-2015, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DeadlyD View Post
is any way to make our bike competitive with the R6.
I don't want to touch the engine internals as it's expensive to do and I'm not doing any pro racing to justify the cost of modifying the internals.
You want contradicting things. To make the RR have the same top end HP as an R6, you have to do a lot of engine modification. The RR will never have the power of the R6 with just an exhaust and controller, which is why R6's are so numerous in race serious where people can't throw cubic dollars at their rides. You can make the HP, but do you want to spend that much money?

'06 F4i- Yoshimura RS-3C, Racetech springs and valves, Ohlin's rear shock, steel brake lines, 520 conversion. 87k miles and counting.....
'08 600RR- Stripped trackbike. CRG shorty brake lever, goodridge front brake lines
'15 1000RR- weekend toy
------Disclaimer: I can't spell------
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-2015, 08:19 PM
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there are cheaper ways of doing the engine to gain a bit more power like milling the head (.006" for 07-15 600RR), installing thinner head gasket to decrease squish & increase compression ratio & degreeing the camshafts but the engine will hav to be pulled off the frame for the work to be done, that should net you some useful gains without breaking the bank. you could also install velocity stacks to gain some more top end power in addition to a full system & pcv, you could also try reflashing the ecu but i think getting an HRC ECU is much cheaper, at least that is my experience.


2003 CBR 600RR JDM
HRC ECU AMA spec
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Electrex World race alternator
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HEL brakelines
Euro Racing riser plates & lever
HM Plus quickshifter
EVR CTS slipper clutch
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