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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Torque Wrench Question

So I got a torque wrench a few months ago and noticed that the units are "Foot-Pounds" and the service manual I have gives the units in "lbf-ft", so pounds-foot I assume. I see there is a difference but could someone explain this a little better to me? Thankfully the wrench also has nm on it, but the range of it isn't what I had expected it to be due to my error of not knowing there was a difference. All of the wrenches I can find on US websites and in store are foot-pounds and I can't find one that is pounds-foot. I'm going mad.


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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 12:15 PM
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Torque is the product of force (lbs, newtons) and distance from the fulcrum (inches, feet, meters)

So the units are ft lbs, pound feet, inch pounds, newton meters etc.

Its all the same thing
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
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Right, but what is the difference between foot pounds and pound feet?


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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 12:39 PM
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Nothing.

What's the difference between 2 x 6 and 6 x 2
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Torque Wrench Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
Nothing.

What's the difference between 2 x 6 and 6 x 2

Well that's what I thought, however in the service manual it states that the torque value for the oil drain bolt, for example, is "30 Nm (3.1 kgfm, 22 lbfft)".
So my torque wrench that is 20-150 foot-pounds should be able to do the job if lbfft and foot-pounds are the same thing. However, when looking at the Nm markings on the same wrench, it starts at 33.9, which would put this wrench 3.9 Nm above the value needed to tighten this properly.


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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 04:42 PM
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Huh dude when stuffs in nm i just ask my android what 10 nm to foot pounds and it tells me. Same with inch pounds etc..

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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 05:54 PM
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Its just a scale. It probably has lbft one side and nm on the other correct? I bet it has lbft on the front and nm on the back right? So to get the zero line on the nm division you need to turn the handle half a turn up from the ft lb scale. To keep the linearity with both scales using the same divisions on the handle, the nm scale will have to be offset vs the lbft scale

Got it? If your wrench does 20-150 then set it at 22 and get it done
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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I'll take a picture of it when I get home.


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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-05-2015, 08:52 PM
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Either way. A lbft is the same as a ftlb. For clear reasons
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
Nothing.

What's the difference between 2 x 6 and 6 x 2
Is that serious?

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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 10:53 PM
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I wouldn't necessarily trust a 20-150 wrench to pull 20lbs accurately. It's probably gonna be tighter than 20
It's suggested to only use the within 10% (might be higher but then it'd be a waste of a torque wrench amirite?) of the limit
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teedubyaw View Post
Is that serious?
Well... Given the original post I think its relevant.. Dont you?
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
Well... Given the original post I think its relevant.. Dont you?

I don't think it's as clear as you make it out to be. There seems to be a fair amount of mixed opinion on the Internet as well. Some saying they are totally different, while some saying they are the same. I seem to think they are different since the conversion doesn't match up on the bottom unit of the torque wrench.


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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 09:25 AM
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You can be as skeptical as you want, torque is the product of force and distance. Only the units can change. If you use pounds as your unit of force and feet as your unit of distance then it doesn't matter in the slightest how you multiply them together, the result is the same.
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinfo View Post
So I got a torque wrench a few months ago and noticed that the units are "Foot-Pounds" and the service manual I have gives the units in "lbf-ft", so pounds-foot I assume. I see there is a difference but could someone explain this a little better to me? Thankfully the wrench also has nm on it, but the range of it isn't what I had expected it to be due to my error of not knowing there was a difference. All of the wrenches I can find on US websites and in store are foot-pounds and I can't find one that is pounds-foot. I'm going mad.


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You're good dude, the person that wrote the ad isn't the engineer that designed the wrench.




Quote:
Originally Posted by shinfo View Post
Right, but what is the difference between foot pounds and pound feet?


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...semantics




Quote:
Originally Posted by ztc278 View Post
I wouldn't necessarily trust a 20-150 wrench to pull 20lbs accurately. It's probably gonna be tighter than 20
It's suggested to only use the within 10% (might be higher but then it'd be a waste of a torque wrench amirite?) of the limit
I've heard the middle 75% is what they should be used for; so 12.5% above the lower limit and 12.5% below the upper limit.




Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
You can be as skeptical as you want, torque is the product of force and distance. Only the units can change. If you use pounds as your unit of force and feet as your unit of distance then it doesn't matter in the slightest how you multiply them together, the result is the same.
I'm not trying to start a debate on this but 1/3 is not the same as 3/1...can we agree it's just semantics?

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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 07:09 PM
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Torque is the PRODUCT of force and distance. Not the quotient. Your argument is invalid
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 07:16 PM
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I know you like arguing with me but the unit is generally depicted as lb/ft, implying division.

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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 08:06 PM
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So we are basing this all on incorrect descriptions?
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 08:11 PM
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That's my theory...do you think the marketing department really knows what the difference is between the way the ad was worded and what the units of measure actually mean mathematically?

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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 08:59 PM
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I'm saying it doesn't matter. A foot pound is a pound foot. I don't see how this thread is still going
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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 09:04 PM
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You and I squabbling over semantics but I don't think that's necessary anymore.

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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
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It's getting heated up in here lol


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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
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It's getting heated up in here lol


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Fvckin marketing lol

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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 12:03 AM
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Wikipedia answer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound-foot_%28torque%29

I'm a metric kind of guy so always use Nm which has less ambiguity :)
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 12:13 AM
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I use metric on my bike because it was designed and built in metric...makes sense to me anyway.

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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrkat28 View Post
I know you like arguing with me but the unit is generally depicted as lb/ft, implying division.
Sorry but that's like saying miles per hour and hour per mile is different.
It would essentially be the same just incredibly stupid to measure that way.
It's not division
It's a meaaurement
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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 05:02 PM
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I can't tell if y'all are just trolling me or completely inept mathematically...I really hope it's just trolling.

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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 09:39 PM
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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-11-2015, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrkat28 View Post
I use metric on my bike because it was designed and built in metric...makes sense to me anyway.

+1. If the bolt spec & tool settings are in metric why the extra step to convert?


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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-11-2015, 04:06 PM
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+1. If the bolt spec & tool settings are in metric why the extra step to convert?


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Maybe someone's torque wrench doesn't have both units of measure?...that's the only reason I have.

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