I hate my engine rattle... (5K) - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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I hate my engine rattle... (5K)

I'd love to solve this damn engine rattle noise I have - it's really bugging me.

'06 model, valve clearances are perfect, I replaced the timing chain tensioner even though the old one was good. The clutch basket was also replaced.

The rattle occurs under light throttle between 4-6K in the mid to upper gears. So, if you're cruising at city speeds in 4th you hear it. Same with 5th at slightly higher speeds. Same with 6th at slightly higher speeds. Not lugging, just cruise conditions with light throttle. I can drive around it by increasing RPM. That is sweet and that's what I want.

It's done it since I got it at 40K and it now has 50K. It's not getting worse, bike goes like snot and I'm sure it's not the engine.

I'm tossing around the idea of pulling the engine over the winter and replacing the countershaft along with the mainshaft bearing. It appears the bearing on the coutershaft is not serviceable separately.

Tomorrow I have an OE 16 tooth rubber coated sprocket coming in to eliminate that from the equation.

It's not inconsistent - you always hear it, especially at 5K when cruising. I never hear it in the lower gears. I also don't hear it under WOT.

I've seen some posts from others about 5K rattles but nothing definitive from them.

Anyone know of any common issues with respect to 5K rattle or whines?

I know it might seem minor but after all the work I've done I want that smooth Honda sound!

06 CBR 600 RR
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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Uggghhhh.....

After searching the 'net for "cbr 600 rr 5K engine rattle" I'm seeing a ton of posts from people that bought new and complaining about the same noise.

More then that, I'm seeing posts from people with CBR 250's mentioning the same noise, CBR 1000's etc. Seems a few folks have concluded the noise is 'normal' and related to the operation of the timing chain tensioner.

In short, apparently lots of them make that weird noise between 4 => 5K right from the showroom floor :(

06 CBR 600 RR
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 01:40 AM
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If it never occurs in gears 1-3 at any RPM, but always occurs in gears 4-6 at only 5k RPM, I'm thinking it is something in the transmission...In theory if it were engine related, it would occur at the same RPM in every gear and if it had something to do with the final drive (chain/sprockets) it would occur at certain a MPH regardless of gear or RPM...I never had this problem before so I'm just using deductive logic.

Be interested to hear what it is!
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 09:25 AM
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Don't know about the rattle but have you ever tried to ride the thing without fairings on? It sounds like the engine might explode. Maybe the heat shield from your fairings is missing? It also kind of acts like a sound deadener.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 07:42 PM
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I went threw 4 oem tensioners before going manual. The 4th failed after like 2000 miles.

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyoha View Post
Don't know about the rattle but have you ever tried to ride the thing without fairings on? It sounds like the engine might explode. Maybe the heat shield from your fairings is missing? It also kind of acts like a sound deadener.
How many miles does your bike have?
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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It's at 50,00 kilometers now. The fairings are new and I put a lot of heat shield on them. From the hundreds of posts on the 'net from people that bought the bikes new - it sounds like it's pretty common.

One fellow with an '08 CBR 1000 RR actually cased it. Apparently they all make that noise much to the annoyance of the owners. He cased it by replacing the entire timing chain assembly. The chain, the cam gears, the crank gear, the tensioner and all the guides. In short he kitchen-sinked it. But, it was widely regarded as the only one that didn't make that noise Apparently when he sold it the prospective buyer noticed it right away as he had test-driven quite a few before settling on his.

I was tossing around the idea of doing the same thing - just replace it all. I already have a new tensioner and it would not be too hard to replace it all. Thing is, I had to order up a Carbon Fiber clutch as the OE one is really bad now. The good news is that Barnett is now making one (Carbon Fiber) the bad news is it ate enough money that I'm going to have to wait on the 5K timing noise until later

I'd really like to get rid of that damn whine/rattle - when I had the cams out for the valve clearance adjustment I did see a fair bit of wear on the backside of the guide where the tensioner pushes on it. I wonder if replacing that alone would do it but it would probably be better to just kitchen sink the damn thing and hopefully see exactly what causes the issue via wear on the old parts (most of which you can't see unless removed).

It was good to see that a lot of other people reported the same noise right from the showroom floor. There was also an interesting commonality though on the reports. Many people started reporting the noise immediately after the first oil change service from the dealer. That was a very common 'trigger' when people started complaining. Makes me wonder if Honda used a 'special' oil when they filled them at the factory. I've seen a lot of instances where GM and other OEM's have done the same.

I also thought it should be transmission but when I saw how many people posted about the same noise back when the bikes were new a lot of people said that's just the common timing chain noise - they all do it.

06 CBR 600 RR

Last edited by Arjay67; 08-30-2016 at 09:54 PM.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay67 View Post
It's at 50,00 kilometers now. The fairings are new and I put a lot of heat shield on them. From the hundreds of posts on the 'net from people that bought the bikes new - it sounds like it's pretty common.

One fellow with an '08 CBR 1000 RR actually cased it. Apparently they all make that noise much to the annoyance of the owners. He cased it by replacing the entire timing chain assembly. The chain, the cam gears, the crank gear, the tensioner and all the guides. In short he kitchen-sinked it. But, it was widely regarded as the only one that didn't make that noise Apparently when he sold it the prospective buyer noticed it right away as he had test-driven quite a few before settling on his.

I was tossing around the idea of doing the same thing - just replace it all. I already have a new tensioner and it would not be too hard to replace it all. Thing is, I had to order up a Carbon Fiber clutch as the OE one is really bad now. The good news is that Barnett is now making one (Carbon Fiber) the bad news is it ate enough money that I'm going to have to wait on the 5K timing noise until later

I'd really like to get rid of that damn whine/rattle - when I had the cams out for the valve clearance adjustment I did see a fair bit of wear on the backside of the guide where the tensioner pushes on it. I wonder if replacing that alone would do it but it would probably be better to just kitchen sink the damn thing and hopefully see exactly what causes the issue via wear on the old parts (most of which you can't see unless removed).

It was good to see that a lot of other people reported the same noise right from the showroom floor. There was also an interesting commonality though on the reports. Many people started reporting the noise immediately after the first oil change service from the dealer. That was a very common 'trigger' when people started complaining. Makes me wonder if Honda used a 'special' oil when they filled them at the factory. I've seen a lot of instances where GM and other OEM's have done the same.

I also thought it should be transmission but when I saw how many people posted about the same noise back when the bikes were new a lot of people said that's just the common timing chain noise - they all do it.
It may very well be very common, but if someone mentions something strange happening in gears x.y.z and never occurs in other gears, I'm just very inclined to say transmission.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-30-2016, 10:47 PM
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Thanks for the comments everyone. I think I have the same issue. Since I purchased my bike after it was crashed, I rode it around a few days without fairings and it still did the vibration/rattling, so its probably not the fairings. One trick I used to do with cars was take a big screw driver and use it like a stethescope with the plastic handle up to my ear and put the bit end on what I wanted to listen to. If I remember, maybe I will see if I have the rattle in neutral and see if I can pinpoint this weekend. The bike is a 2008 with 32k miles. As bad as my rattle/vibration is, I almost would be interested in going to a dealer to sit on a new bike and see if it had the similar rattle.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-31-2016, 01:06 AM
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The screwdriver/stethoscope idea sounds(ha ha) like a good one. I'll remember that.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-31-2016, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrkat28 View Post
It may very well be very common, but if someone mentions something strange happening in gears x.y.z and never occurs in other gears, I'm just very inclined to say transmission.
I think probably I've hamstrung posters in this thread by not posting up a video/audio of the bike going down the road. It's very pronounced and you can just move the throttle back and forth between 4-5K and make it happen at will.

I can almost guarantee you from all the posts I saw from back in the day when the bike was new, everyone would probably come in and say mine does that too - it's normal

I'd have to test drive it again but I think the reason you don't hear it in first or second is probably because I move past that range pretty quick. It may well do it there too.

06 CBR 600 RR
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2016, 06:05 PM
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Exact same thing with my 03 CBR600RR, loud engine rattle between 4-6k rpm just cruising, sounds like excessive valve clearance. Took it in to a Honda dealer in my town and had them look at it, it's completely normal since there is a lot of valve clearance as factory specification, at least that's what I was told.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay67 View Post
I replaced the timing chain tensioner even though the old one was good.

It's not inconsistent - you always hear it, especially at 5K when cruising.

Anyone know of any common issues with respect to 5K rattle or whines?

I know it might seem minor but after all the work I've done I want that smooth Honda sound!
I had same issue as you and poster above me with my '03 RR. I replaced the CCT with a manual one and adjusted accordingly. Problem was solved.

Did you get just another auto CCT, if so it could be extended all the way and still having same issues as the original one.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-02-2016, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OzHonda View Post
I had same issue as you and poster above me with my '03 RR. I replaced the CCT with a manual one and adjusted accordingly. Problem was solved.

Did you get just another auto CCT, if so it could be extended all the way and still having same issues as the original one.
Aha. I did buy another OE unit and your reasoning makes sense. Perhaps once there's wear on the guide that the tensioner rides on the plunger extends to such a limit that it resonates at certain frequencies.

With manual adjustment you can probably push the guide in far enough that it takes up more slack.

I'm going to look casing this over the winter with the OE tensioner (if possible). I want to know, for a fact, what's going on and I suspect your take on it will be correct.

A guy with a 1000 over in the UK cased it (apparently they all do it) by replacing all the guides, sprockets and chain. I wonder if the real issue is the single guide that the tensioner rides on. I know they wear under the plunger. Perhaps that's all that needs to be replaced to get rid of the noise (other then 'cheating' with a manual unit).

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 02:32 PM
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I had the same... I was able to fix mine by taking my key off of the key ring... It was my key chain vibrating against the triple tree..



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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-17-2017, 03:38 PM
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You should replace the timing chain, guides, and tensioner



People seem to think that the only wearing part in the system is the tensioner itself and just keep replacing that, when in actuality the tensioner forces the guide against the chain

You aren't doing your bike any good by replacing a tensioner but not the guide. This is why guys find a manual tensioner works as they are able to extend it further than the stock one would go. But that is a Bandaid for a bigger issue.



If problems were dealt with in a proper fashion they wouldn't be such a headache
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
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I think you're right. I mentioned in a post above that the guide that rides on the tensioner plunger had noticeable wear on it from where the plunger pushes on it. One day it will get done.

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