Gear indicator install help? - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
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Gear indicator install help?

I'm buying a Healtech gear indicator for my track bike, because it has the HRC ECU i can't buy the std version that simply plugs into the diagnostic port, bit of a bummer but not the end of the world.
The universal loom they offer is 4 wires, pretty basic stuff, i have to find Pos (9V min), Grd, Tach signal and Speed signal.
Seems straight forward, and the first three i can easily find in the instrument cluster loom, the speed sensor wiring i'm having trouble with, i haven't touched the bike yet as i don't have the part in hand, nor do i want to disassemble until i'm ready to install it but i'm looking for clues on whether or not anyone knows if/what the speed sensor wire is in the back of the gauge plug?

I know the Gauge displays speed when ridden so it has to be getting there somehow but the wiring diagram i have is a scanned copy and i can't find anything that says speed sensor on the schematic.... the wiring from the sensor doesn't follow to the gauge cluster directly and i can't see anything that clearly shows it running via the ECU either.
If no one knows i'll just bell it out with my meter from the speed sensor to the gauge plug but if anyone has done this already some guidance would be appreciated.
The last thing i want is extra wires running any further than they have to, i like the idea of a short run from the display (with the gear indicator on the side) to the front harness, nice and clean and tidy...

This is the wiring for the std cluster, the HRC loom which i can't attach doesn't have hi-beam, HESD-IND, SP and SP_Vcc shown in the schematic
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 02:39 PM
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Wanna take a guess what SP stands for?
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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DOH!!!
I'm assuming speed..... however my loom schematic doesn't show any wiring to it (which is likely wrong because it does display speed) but what about the _Vcc?
I'll just test for continuity from the signal wire on the speed sensor and see which one it is.
Thanks.

EDIT*** my guge cluster does NOT display speed, the PO told me it did but i tested it in gear and it shows 0 constantly.

Last edited by Cropduster; 01-27-2019 at 05:12 PM.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-22-2019, 09:21 PM
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Vcc is probably just a DC common.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 06:21 PM
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Get yourself a Starlane gear indicator. You get a sub loom for it that goes between the loom connector to the instrument console. It's plug and play! It also has a rev light that you can set for the revs you want.

Motorcycle gear indicator with plug&play option - ENGEAR
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Racing View Post
Get yourself a Starlane gear indicator. You get a sub loom for it that goes between the loom connector to the instrument console. It's plug and play! It also has a rev light that you can set for the revs you want.

Motorcycle gear indicator with plug&play option - ENGEAR
these look pretty good, the website is a bit painful though.....

Found the aussie distributor, his phone is off, typical. He will be moaning that no one supports local business most likely.

I wanted to ask him a cost, availability and most important, whethere the sub loom will work with my HRC ECU....
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 01:05 AM
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The signals you need aren't even related to the ecu.

The gear indicator just compares engine speed and wheel speed. You can use the crank pulse generator and the vehicle speed sensor (a pulse generator before the transmission, and one after). the ecu is irrelevant.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 01:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
The signals you need aren't even related to the ecu.

The gear indicator just compares engine speed and wheel speed. You can use the crank pulse generator and the vehicle speed sensor (a pulse generator before the transmission, and one after). the ecu is irrelevant.
That makes sense, the adapter plug has nothing to do with the ECU, it just interrupts the signals to and from the gauge cluster.

But just to be sure, because it IS electronic, i'm asking them.....

The Healtech one requires manual installation because theirs plugs into the diagnostic port and that definitely is affected by the ECU but i doubt this Engear one will..
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cropduster View Post
That makes sense, the adapter plug has nothing to do with the ECU, it just interrupts the signals to and from the gauge cluster.

But just to be sure, because it IS electronic, i'm asking them.....
Just rebuilding a race bike with an HRC loom and ECU on it and have just fitted the Starlane to it from my previous standard bike. Haven't had chance to run the bike properly, but turning it on it all lights up as normal.

Once I have the radiator fitted I can run it properly and will do a little paddock stand test to see if it works ok. Probably do that in about a weeks time.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-24-2019, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Racing View Post
Just rebuilding a race bike with an HRC loom and ECU on it and have just fitted the Starlane to it from my previous standard bike. Haven't had chance to run the bike properly, but turning it on it all lights up as normal.

Once I have the radiator fitted I can run it properly and will do a little paddock stand test to see if it works ok. Probably do that in about a weeks time.
ok cool, do you have a build thread i can look at? seems we're doing the same thing.....

Thanks for the tip, if i can use a kit that's plug and play i will, getting it from my local distributor seems like it will be an issue though...
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 07:13 AM
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-25-2019, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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nice one mate thank you, the Healtech one requires programming once installed, does the EnGear?
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-26-2019, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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My loom has no speed signal to the gauges so if i used the Engear one with their adapter loom i would have to modify it anyway.

Considering the cost, the lack of local support (i can't even get a P&A from the local distributor!) i'm going with the Healtech version and their generic loom, cheaper, highly rated and seeing as i have to tap wires there's not much difference between 1 and 4

Thanks for the tip though, anyone using a std loom will probably like it.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-27-2019, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cropduster View Post
My loom has no speed signal to the gauges so if i used the Engear one with their adapter loom i would have to modify it anyway.
Why would you need to modify it?
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-27-2019, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ruby Racing View Post
Why would you need to modify it?
With no speed signal in the loom the connector pin in the plug for the Engear that's looking for it has nothing to connect to, i have to reroute that particular wire to the speed sensor signal output itself or the speed sensor wire on the ECU (Grey plug).
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-27-2019, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cropduster View Post
With no speed signal in the loom the connector pin in the plug for the Engear that's looking for it has nothing to connect to, i have to reroute that particular wire to the speed sensor signal output itself or the speed sensor wire on the ECU (Grey plug).
Ah, OK.

As I mentioned I'm not in a position to run my motor yet as the radiator still needs to be fitted. I just went to the garage and put it into first which it recognised as different from neutral. But wouldn't recognise any other gears, just kept showing "1". However it did know when it was back in neutral. What you say seems logical. I just hope you're wrong! LOL.

As soon as I can fire her up I'll check and report back. But probably looking at the weekend before I can get spannering again. Work does interfere with ones social life!
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-27-2019, 07:39 PM
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it can't possibly do anything without inputs from the crank pulse generator and the speed pulse generator. it knows it's in neutral because the neutral signal wire is in the harness it plugs in to.

if the bike isn't running and the wheel isn't moving, it can't do anything.

you'll also notice it will get messed up when the clutch is pulled while you're riding. it can't update what gear you're in until the clutch is fully engaged.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 01:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Racing View Post
Ah, OK.

As I mentioned I'm not in a position to run my motor yet as the radiator still needs to be fitted. I just went to the garage and put it into first which it recognised as different from neutral. But wouldn't recognise any other gears, just kept showing "1". However it did know when it was back in neutral. What you say seems logical. I just hope you're wrong! LOL.

As soon as I can fire her up I'll check and report back. But probably looking at the weekend before I can get spannering again. Work does interfere with ones social life!
It's nota big deal to modify the loom to make it work, without the speed sensor wire going to the Gauge you just need to run that wire to the sensor itself or the ECU. I just don't want to have to pay for the adapter if i have to modify the wiring anyway.

And frankly, the support that product gets in Australia is rubbish so probably best to give ita wide berth here anyway.

Good luck with yours mate
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-28-2019, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
it can't possibly do anything without inputs from the crank pulse generator and the speed pulse generator. it knows it's in neutral because the neutral signal wire is in the harness it plugs in to.

if the bike isn't running and the wheel isn't moving, it can't do anything.

you'll also notice it will get messed up when the clutch is pulled while you're riding. it can't update what gear you're in until the clutch is fully engaged.
OK, that all makes sense.

Like I said, I'll update once we have ignition!
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 08:15 PM
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Update as promised Wibbly.

The gear indicator doesn't work with the HRC ECU and HRC loom. Which is a bit of a bummer.
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-12-2019, 10:40 PM
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Is there an rpm and speed signal connected to it?
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 03:45 AM
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See my previous comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby Racing View Post
Get yourself a Starlane gear indicator. You get a sub loom for it that goes between the loom connector to the instrument console. It's plug and play! It also has a rev light that you can set for the revs you want.
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 03:49 AM
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Cropduster suggested there is no speed signal in the connector, as such you wouldn't have what you need for the GI to work.
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
Cropduster suggested there is no speed signal in the connector, as such you wouldn't have what you need for the GI to work.
Yes I know, I've been following the thread. I was just confirming his suggestion.
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