Are Hummers truly the evil vehicles Environmentalists make them out to be? - 600RR.net
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View Poll Results: Are Hummers truly the evil vehicles Environmentalists make them out to be?
Yes 26 37.68%
No 23 33.33%
I could care less! Stop wasting my time! 20 28.99%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 06:33 PM
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Are Hummers truly the evil vehicles Environmentalists make them out to be?

Ok, since I have recently bought a Hummer H3 and started frequenting related forums, this topic has become of interest to me. I've had relatively few negative comments about my hummer, but I have noticed even owning an H3 has put me under a certain stereotype. Hopefully this thread wont get out of hand, my intent is to have a friendly debate on the topic. I know this can be a sensitive topic, so lets try to be respectful!

PLEASE DONT GET OUT OF HAND. I DON"T WANT TO SEE THIS THREAD SHUT DOWN!

So in my best coffee talk voice I say "Discuss amongst yourselves...."

Just to show off the opposing side of the story, here is a link....

http://www.blogsnotbombs.com/hummerhome.htm

Last edited by crotch_rocket_pilot; 11-29-2005 at 06:38 PM.
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post #2 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 06:48 PM
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I want to know why Toyota gets a pass because they have the Prius. In case any forgot, they also have the LandCruiser and its Lexus counter part, the 4 runner, the RX330... Tons of big gas guzzling vehicles and one little Hybrid. But Ford and GM who are producing decent, normal looking hybrids get no credit. Ford has the Escape SUV in a hybrid which was sold out for 2 years, 2 years ago!!! I havent been to a Ford dealer recently, but thats pretty damn good. Im sure there is still a waiting list. GM has the new pick up truck hybrid coming. Ah-nold is testing a hybrid version H2 as we speak.


The H3 is fine. So is the H1. The problem is that people just see a big car from the H1 and the poor milage the H2 gets and assume that the H3 is the same thing, when it is cleary not and neither is the H1. The gas powered H1s ok I can see, I think they are stupid too, but the Disel powered H1s are fine other than just being massive. Diesel, from what I have been told and researched produces less Carbon dioxide, you know that little guy that enviornmentalists whine about causing "global warming" but it produces soot which can be harmful if you have a constant exposure. Take your pick. Gas vs Deisel is not that easy of a choice. However, diesel can be ultra efficiant as I watched Jeremy Clarkson do a 425+ mile trip on a single tank of disel in a new A8. Some of the new diesel MBs can be go 625+ miles.

The biggest problem you have is that the name "Hummer" is attached to the car. And eco-terrorists dont really care or do any research. They just want to blow stuff up and create more pollution than if they left the place alone. I know that there was a Hummer dealer in Cali that got torched and the amount of smog and pollution cause from the burning paint, rubber and plastic cause more pollution than all the Hummer trucks in that dealership combined over the life time of the vehicles.

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post #3 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 06:59 PM
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Well, I am not strictly talking about H3's, but Hummer's in general. And to play devils advocate here, someone could argue that buying an H3 is helping to keep the Hummer brand alive, thus helping to keep the H2's on the road....
post #4 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:03 PM
 
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IMO there are worse vehicles out there like the exotic cars...they are EPA rated at like 6-9mpg city which as we all know you almost never see the mpg the EPA rates vehicles at
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post #5 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:05 PM
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We need some debate here! Surely someone hates hummers....I want to hear both sides of the story here.
post #6 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crotch_rocket_pilot
Well, I am not strictly talking about H3's, but Hummer's in general. And to play devils advocate here, someone could argue that buying an H3 is helping to keep the Hummer brand alive, thus helping to keep the H2's on the road....
To them I say they can argue all they want, this is still America and if I want to buy an H2 then Im going to buy an H2. H2s have been dropping off the map for quite a while. A car company will only keep a vehicle around if it sells and makes a profit or hits a certain demographic that isnt served by another vehicle they make or someone else makes. H2s are nothing more than reskined Suburbans. H3s are just SUV bodies on a Chevy Colorado chasis, I think... They didnt dump $$$$ into the development of these cars. Anyone who has ever been in an H2 knows this.

Also I dont think that Hummer is going under time soon since both the H2 and the H3 are nothing more than rebadged GM vehicles. Both have been designed and built under the ownership of GM and I dont think that they are folding anytime soon.

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post #7 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:13 PM
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Sorry, I just like a healthy debate...and I would like to hear from some people who dislike them. When my stepmother heard I had one, she thought it was an evil thing I had done. She's a diehard democrat, and really opposes them.
post #8 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:26 PM
 
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I could care less as to what anyone drives, it's your pocket book not mine. I wish I could spawn a debate with you on this but I am not a nut case.

How's the ride on that bad boy?
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post #9 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:29 PM
 
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i have an h2. i love it. sometimes i kinda wish i had bought the h2 sut... but the good thing about the h2 (non-sut) is that you can fold down the rear seats and almost make a bedroom back there (if you get the idea). black on black with full tint. i tow my bikes to the track with it, take it to tahoe, big bear, and mammoth during boarding season, take a bunch of friends out somewhere, super comfortable for long trips (laguna, etc). people get out of way cuz it looks menacing on the street. it eats gas like crazy... but i put the cheapest 87 i can find... so it almost works out. in L.A., they are a dime a dozen as are all suvs... so no one really seems to give a damn. with all the high performance, high hp cars coming out nowadays... you could make an argument with any new high performance auto. most people seem to like it among my family and friends. once they get in it... they feel super safe and feel like they can see everything on the road. my next one will be either be another h2 (sut this time) or the new range rover sport (supercharged one).

hummer used to be word with a happy ending... now you can drive one. go figure.

cheers... nick - mri
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post #10 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:34 PM
 
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Great subject, I think "tree huggers" who complain about large vehicles should be required to abstain from meat and any other animal products as livestock produce more carbon dioxide than cars.
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post #11 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:40 PM
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See there are 4 people that have voted yes, but arent willing to defend their positions. They just click and run.

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #12 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:41 PM
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hummer used to be word with a happy ending... now you can drive one. go figure.
LOL, that's a good one.

Hey, what's the gas mileage on the H3? It's got to be pretty good. I was looking at the specs, and I was kinda surprised at the power output. 220hp, 225ft-lbs. That's less than my Honda Pilot, which anyone who knows Honda's would say "wow, something with less power than a Honda, that's surprising." (I mean no offense by that, the H3 is actaully very nice.) Anyway, my Pilot usually gets around 18mpg, and I'd say for an SUV, that's pretty decent. I don't really care if there are cars out there with super low gas mileage, I just wouldn't want to drive one, because it would cost a fortune.

:edit: I guess the Hummer is just designed to be more low-end torquey (torquey?) power. ("Me fail English... that unpossible.") When I checked the specs I noticed that the Hummer reaches it's 225 ft.-lbs. at like 2800 RPM while the Honda doesn't reach it's 240 ft-lbs. until 4500 RPM.

Last edited by Comb; 11-29-2005 at 07:52 PM.
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post #13 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BDiddy
See there are 4 people that have voted yes, but arent willing to defend their positions. They just click and run.
I've noticed that...why cant we get some arguements from the other side?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Comb
LOL, that's a good one.

Hey, what's the gas mileage on the H3? It's got to be pretty good. I was looking at the specs, and I was kinda surprised at the power output. 220hp, 225ft-lbs. That's less than my Honda Pilot, which anyone who knows Honda's would say "wow, something with less power than a Honda, that's surprising." (I mean no offense by that, the H3 is actaully very nice.) Anyway, my Pilot usually gets around 18mpg, and I'd say for an SUV, that's pretty decent. I don't really care if there are cars out there with super low gas mileage, I just wouldn't want to drive one, because it would cost a fortune.
Lack of power has been a big complaint among H3 owners. It has awesome offroad capability but its definitely not a racecar. I'm getting about 17mpg. I think they went with the smaller engine to get better gas mileage. The H3 has shot hummer sales through the roof, they are selling them like crazy right now.
post #14 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:56 PM
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Lack of power has been a big complaint among H3 owners.
I'm surprised they don't offer optional engines like Jeep and Dodge tend to do. Oh well, just throw a supercharger on there, that'll make it more powerful (and kill the gas mileage I guess).
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post #15 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 07:58 PM
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What GM did was take the new I6 cyl from the colorado p/u truck and lop off a cyl. It seems that they lopped off the magic HP cyl though because the Colorado p/u has quite a bit more power than the H3. I think someone ran the H3 at an 18 second q mile or a 16 sec q mile and like a 8 or 10 second 0-60.

Personally I wouldnt buy the H3 unless it came with at least the I6 motor. Preferably the V8 or a super charged I6 wouldnt be bad either. I think it looks great, but the utter sluggishness is just unacceptable to me. I was pretty psyched about it. I think it looks great and is a great idea just not fully realized yet.

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post #16 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 08:31 PM
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First I just want to say that I dont have a problem with people buying/driving whatever they want, it is a free country after all. I just dont see a NEED for these massive beasts on the road. Why does anyone need an H1? Offroading is one thing, I happen to enjoy it, but how many people drop $50k-150K on a new truck, then go beat the crap out of it on a trail? Not many, I think people buy them for some image that they think these beasts project. You can apply that theory to our bikes, sport cars, etc. I think the overused term is poser.

The H1 gets 8-10 mpg, H2 gets 10-13, H3 13-17, SUVs from Toyota, Nissan etc. arent any better. In a time when we are sending 19 year old kids to die over oil (you can tell me we are "liberating" Iraq all you want) I find it a bit irresponsible. Kind of reminds me of those commercials a while ago where they were saying that if you buy drugs you are funding "terrorists", well who do you think all that gas money is going to?

As far as the environmental arguments, I have one thing to say. The earth was here long before we got here, going to be here long after we "liberate" eachother off the face of the planet :)

just my $.02
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post #17 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BDiddy
What GM did was take the new I6 cyl from the colorado p/u truck and lop off a cyl. It seems that they lopped off the magic HP cyl though because the Colorado p/u has quite a bit more power than the H3. I think someone ran the H3 at an 18 second q mile or a 16 sec q mile and like a 8 or 10 second 0-60.

Personally I wouldnt buy the H3 unless it came with at least the I6 motor. Preferably the V8 or a super charged I6 wouldnt be bad either. I think it looks great, but the utter sluggishness is just unacceptable to me. I was pretty psyched about it. I think it looks great and is a great idea just not fully realized yet.
The H3 has a V6 engine.
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post #18 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 08:41 PM
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I'll take a stab... (See disclaimer at the end)

Are Hummers truly the evil vehicles Environmentalists make them out to be?

I personally think that it's a soccer mom trend. Just the other day I heard a soccer mom comment on her recently purchased new H3 at a check stand in Yosemite. She was bragging about her new Hummer to complete strangers. It doesn't get any worse than that. H2 and H3 are a literally a joke. I mean don't get me wrong, they do get you around, but they are the laughing stock of the SUV family. GM keeps re-engineering the parts that break, but they should face it, it's not a Hummer. It's a cheap replica for posers (no offence to guys who own one) with an "I own a Hummer" attitude. One of the most ugly vehicles in history has got to be an H2 canary yellow with 24's on it.
Someone who actually needs a Hummer will buy a H1. Someone who wants to pretend that they need a Hummer will buy a H2 or H3. H2's and H3's were developed without the guts of the real Hummer for a reason, they had considered making the H2 tough like the H1, but realized that they could get just as much money for the H2 with Chevy Blazer running gear and the Trailblazer steering column. So why not save money and just buy the Blazer or the Trailblazer? Simple// poseriffic! Just like the Porsche Boxer (old one,) it may not perform like a Porsche, but hey it's a Porsche.

Get a bunch of soccer moms on a Ford Excursion or H2 kick and you have a movement... A genuine, gas guzzling, "I'm off to the supermarket by myself (good thing I own a Suburban with a 10" lift)" movement.

I actually have a family problem because my older sister (single w/ 3 kids) refused to take the company Suburban (96 for 10 grand) because it was not the new body style (2000+ for 25 grand+) So now, my sister does not talk to my mother, and my mother can't see her grandkids because of a selfish soccer mom who's life long dream is shattered because she can't have the latest and greatest Suburban. Talk about obsessive.

But, yeah it's a movement and taking it in a different direction would be beneficial for our stay on earth, in the long run. You have to start somewhere. If you commute in a H2 then you should consider buying a second car strictly for commuting.



Disclaimer: This discussion is for playing devils advocate only. This site does not necessarily reflect the same gas hog bashing opinion as I do. I am only bashing gas hogs for sake of discussion. Please don't take anything I say personally. Personally, I drive a MR2 spyder and a Tacoma V6 (not much better gas mileage than a H3.)
post #19 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by blackvomit
I just dont see a NEED for these massive beasts on the road.

If NEED is your arguement, then anything you have that uses gas/petroleum and isnt a NEED is just as wasteful as a hummer. The entire recreational vehicle market is a waste of gas (Motorcycles, Boats,etc) for the most part. Take anything you have that is plastic that you use only for pleasure and toss it, you dont NEED it. The majority of things the average american owns he doesnt NEED. Unless you are one of the unaverage americans who happens to live in a cave, then I see picking on Hummer owners as being a little hypocritical....

Last edited by crotch_rocket_pilot; 11-29-2005 at 08:45 PM.
post #20 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 08:50 PM
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Take anything you have that is plastic that you use only for pleasure and toss it, you dont NEED it.
haha, I want to hear what the ladies have to say about that one.
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post #21 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 08:52 PM
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The H3 has a V6 engine.
No it has an inline 5 or an I5.

http://trucks.about.com/od/suvreview...troduction.htm

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post #22 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cvlighthouse
I'll take a stab... (See disclaimer at the end)

Are Hummers truly the evil vehicles Environmentalists make them out to be?

I personally think that it's a soccer mom trend. Just the other day I heard a soccer mom comment on her recently purchased new H3 at a check stand in Yosemite. She was bragging about her new Hummer to complete strangers. It doesn't get any worse than that. H2 and H3 are a literally a joke. I mean don't get me wrong, they do get you around, but they are the laughing stock of the SUV family. GM keeps re-engineering the parts that break, but they should face it, it's not a Hummer. It's a cheap replica for posers (no offence to guys who own one) with an "I own a Hummer" attitude. One of the most ugly vehicles in history has got to be an H2 canary yellow with 24's on it.
Someone who actually needs a Hummer will buy a H1. Someone who wants to pretend that they need a Hummer will buy a H2 or H3. H2's and H3's were developed without the guts of the real Hummer for a reason, they had considered making the H2 tough like the H1, but realized that they could get just as much money for the H2 with Chevy Blazer running gear and the Trailblazer steering column. So why not save money and just buy the Blazer or the Trailblazer? Simple// poseriffic! Just like the Porsche Boxer (old one,) it may not perform like a Porsche, but hey it's a Porsche.

Get a bunch of soccer moms on a Ford Excursion or H2 kick and you have a movement... A genuine, gas guzzling, "I'm off to the supermarket by myself (good thing I own a Suburban with a 10" lift)" movement.

I actually have a family problem because my older sister (single w/ 3 kids) refused to take the company Suburban (96 for 10 grand) because it was not the new body style (2000+ for 25 grand+) So now, my sister does not talk to my mother, and my mother can't see her grandkids because of a selfish soccer mom who's life long dream is shattered because she can't have the latest and greatest Suburban. Talk about obsessive.

But, yeah it's a movement and taking it in a different direction would be beneficial for our stay on earth, in the long run. You have to start somewhere. If you commute in a H2 then you should consider buying a second car strictly for commuting.
A hummer is like anything else, its a personel preference. Everyone has different criteria for buying vehicles. Some like performance. Some like the aesthetic aspect. Some just like owning a certain make/model for the perception it gives to other people. Some its all or none of the above. I'll be honest, I bought my hummer for the comfort and the looks. Of course you either you love or hate the looks of them. I owned a jeep before. They both look like a cinderblock on wheels. For whatever reason that look appeals to me. Is it the most practical vehicle? Heck no! But its what I like. I'll wait until I hear more arguments before I say more...I just want to hear everyone else's opinions first.

P.S.

I love a good debate!

Last edited by crotch_rocket_pilot; 11-29-2005 at 08:59 PM.
post #23 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 09:00 PM
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No it has an inline 5 or an I5.
Yeah, you're right. I checked elsewhere too, and it has an inline 5. Somewhere I read that it had a V6.
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post #24 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by blackvomit
The H1 gets 8-10 mpg
My friends average 12 highway and 10 other places and this is a disel truck. Ive heard of people getting 12/14. It produces less CO2 than a car, however it does produce more soot. The few H1s on the road arent going to add to the soot problem in the country. Factories are a bigger threat. Also the diesel produces MASSIVE amounts of power compared to a gas motor the same displacement and we like to take the ski mountain home with us and keep it in the back yard :P Also its really cool to see people in P/U trucks and SUVs stuck on the side of the road while we truck up to the ski mountain.

Used H1s are the way to go. You can pick up with almost no milage on it for 45-50Gs, the same price as a partially loaded Suburban or H2 and still less than an Escalade with no options. So long as you do maintance on the schedule the truck will last forever. Wait too long and it costs a fortune to replace parts. Keep up with it and its not a bank breaker believe it or not.

Personally the sheer size of the H1 is what intregues me about it. Its the kind of truck the Hemmingway would drive. People look at you and think: "Are you out of your ******* mind!?!?!" And then they think: "You really are out of your ******* mind!!!!"

And I love that about it.

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post #25 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 09:05 PM
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No really.. Say what your going to say now because I have to go.

Your "cinderblock on wheels" comment has really got me thinking about getting one...

Is it the most practical vehicle? Heck no! But for personal prefrence, comfort and looks.. Hahaha you sound like my obsessed sister...

Why are my sister and I even in this discussion>?

Okay Okay, they are just as bad for the earth as any other gas vehicle. There, I said it.. Okay... Now can I have my cookie?
post #26 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by crotch_rocket_pilot
A hummer is like anything else, its a personel preference. Everyone has different criteria for buying vehicles. Some like performance. Some like the aesthetic aspect. Some just like owning a certain make/model for the perception it gives to other people. Some its all or none of the above. I'll be honest, I bought my hummer for the comfort and the looks. Of course you either you love or hate the looks of them. I owned a jeep before. They both look like a cinderblock on wheels. For whatever reason that look appeals to me. Is it the most practical vehicle? Heck no! But its what I like. I'll wait until I hear more arguments before I say more...I just want to hear everyone else's opinions first.

To add to this, I havent seen any new cars that I would actually buy. My next car is going to be a classic muscle car and a Jeep Cherokee for the winter. I cant stand the new cars out there. They look like shite.

Should we ban me from buying a 67 Camaro or a 69 Charger because they dont have a new emmisions system?

BTW pick one: 71 Cuda 440 6-Pak, 67 Camaro, 69 triple black Charger, 67-68 Mustang Fastback or suggest a sweet @$$ muscle car ride. Im tired of the plastic crap that dealerships have these days. Or suggest something different.

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #27 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cvlighthouse
No really.. Say what your going to say now because I have to go.

Your "cinderblock on wheels" comment has really got me thinking about getting one...

Is it the most practical vehicle? Heck no! But for personal prefrence, comfort and looks.. Hahaha you sound like my obsessed sister...

Why are my sister and I even in this discussion>?

Okay Okay, they are just as bad for the earth as any other gas vehicle. There, I said it.. Okay... Now can I have my cookie?

Well...think of all the people who comment on the looks of the RR. Many of the people on here didnt buy the bike because of its performance, but more because of its look. Its just a fact that not everyone buys a car/motorcycle for the same reason. I also like the offroading capability of my truck, and I have been known to use it. I've loved hummers since I was in the Military, and if I had the money for a H1 I would have one hands down. The H3 will have to do for now though.
post #28 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by crotch_rocket_pilot
Well...think of all the people who comment on the looks of the RR. Many of the people on here didnt buy the bike because of its performance, but more because of its look. Its just a fact that not everyone buys a car/motorcycle for the same reason. I also like the offroading capability of my truck, and I have been known to use it. I've loved hummers since I was in the Military, and if I had the money for a H1 I would have one hands down. The H3 will have to do for now though.
How much did you pay for yours? I havent found one for less than 40Gs with the dealer markup

"Oh and if you dare say that I dont know whats it like get a freakin clue! I date models and strippers. So dont tell me that I dont know whats its like!" - BDiddy
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post #29 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDiddy
How much did you pay for yours? I havent found one for less than 40Gs with the dealer markup

Mine was a little over 40k, but after a GMID discount I got from a friend and trade in for the jeep I paid a little over 30k. Mines pretty loaded too. Everyone looks at it and thinks I spent a fortune because its a hummer, but it really wasnt that bad. I think it has to do with the fact I bought it here in the Midwest too. I know in other areas of the country they are selling for alot more.

Now back on topic....I'd like to hear more counter arguements...this topic intrigues me. The fixation on the hummer by environmentalists and other like minded people and not other things intrigues me.

Last edited by crotch_rocket_pilot; 11-29-2005 at 09:18 PM.
post #30 of 56 (permalink) Old 11-29-2005, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crotch_rocket_pilot
If NEED is your arguement, then anything you have that uses gas/petroleum and isnt a NEED is just as wasteful as a hummer. The entire recreational vehicle market is a waste of gas (Motorcycles, Boats,etc) for the most part. Take anything you have that is plastic that you use only for pleasure and toss it, you dont NEED it. The majority of things the average american owns he doesnt NEED. Unless you are one of the unaverage americans who happens to live in a cave, then I see picking on Hummer owners as being a little hypocritical....
I am not trying to pick on just Hummers. Trucks in general were designed to serve a purpose, whether hauling people/lumber/troops/snowboards or offroading, etc. But why does mom need a 4 ton military spec truck to haul groceries and rug rats?
Yes you are right all recreational vehicles are a waste of gas, humanity survived just fine long before petroleum based products came along, we dont NEED them, they just make life more comfortable. I guess it is a degree of reasonability. I mean why not drive one of these?
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