after an extended absence, which choice would you lust after - 600RR.net
Polls and Research Take a poll and discuss your research here

View Poll Results: After an extended absence...which option would you lust after?
RC51 SP1/2 4 28.57%
Aprilia RSV1000R Factory 2 14.29%
Ducati 848 1 7.14%
Gsxr750 K5/6 3 21.43%
03-09 CBR1000RR or R1 4 28.57%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
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after an extended absence, which choice would you lust after

Hi all,

After an extended absence I'm looking for some well articulated opinions. *Apologies for the book that follows, but it's of course a subjective question, so goes beyond the 'you should get a literbike because they are the fastest!!!' or 'literbikes are useless on the streets debate'

*My last ride, an 09 CBR 600RR was stolen after a very short experience....6 years, a wedding, 1.5 kids, several promotions, a nice Audi sedan later.......and I've convinced myself to have a go at the whole mid life crisis and get another bike. *This involves the embarrassment of re-passing my motorcycle exam to Belgian standards, some marital negotiations, and bike selection.

I nearly died in a motorcycle accident at the age of 21 (despite 3 years of riding experience across multiple bikes and ~100k miles) so let's say risk mitigation is a major focus while at the same time re-gaining the passion and satisfaction that only a summer day's ride on a beautiful race machine can provide. *I'm looking to get another bike to scratch that itch that won't go away any other way, and at the same time relive the glory of my youthful passions, but with the advantage of a middle age experience & income.

So given the above & below what would be your recommendation / advice?

Previous experience:

Ninja EX250 (starter after MSF course)
Honda CBR600F4 (First proper race bike, first tuning experience, first theft experience)
Honda CBR900RR (First proper liter bike experience, as tuned as humanely possible. *Don't ask don't tell in terms of reckless behavior. *Didn't mind the heavier weight as it helped with launch control, just had to be careful with rear wheel spin in cold weather & tank slap)
2 generations of GSXR750 SRAD (Carb then FI, very happy with both, handling better than the 900rr, but a bit under-powered in comparison)

------Nasty accident------

CBR600F3 fully tuned track bike just to prove I had the balls to get back on a bike
CBR600RR (First bike after relocating to Belgium. *I might catch some flames for saying so on a 600rr forum, but while the bike was absolutely phenomenal for a 600cc, it is a very very different riding experience from a liter bike or middle weight. *I very much appreciated how maneuverable it was, but I equally missed the lower end torque that I had on the 900rr & the FI GSXR750. *I also found that the high revving nature of the engine tempted me to accelerate past, rather than get stuck in traffic. Fine if you are on the track, but a bit tempting if you are in the city and supposed to respect a 50kmh speedlimit)

Objective:

To find a dream bike that makes me sleep happy dreams as I know it is in the garage a meter away from me.....This choice isn't about logic, or track speed, it is about passion (see midlife crisis comments above). *Full fairing sport bike is a must.
That can be used for an occasional (weekly or bi-weekly) commute of 35 kms one way, in pristine weather only. *Suitable power delivery / maneuverability is key here, with equal time spent in thick city traffic, winding countryside, & autoroute
That can do track duty as I doubt my ability to behave/ remain mature in the long term without the occasional track day
Because its a short commute, and because tickle me factor is most important, comfort is secondary and I've never had a comfort issue in past experience despite the high mileage & injuries
To be budget friendly til the wife is convinced to splurge the budget on the 'last bike I'll even own'
Bike maintenance is no issue as I turn my own wrench and have the time & patience to not mind any down time. Tinkering is a plus if anything. *Long term durability is also important. *I'm buying second hand & not scared to put 100k km on a bike.

Options:

Several good condition 30k KM RC51s - My lustful dream bike when I had the 900rr & 750.....the strong appeal is the race heritage and the vtwin for low down torque in the city.....but I also question if there aren't better choices available, with better technology, less obese, easier to find....With that said I'm a big Honda fan across my experience, and the RC51 was the clear winner in terms of heart strings.
Aprilia RSV 1000 R (Factory?) *Seems to be a lighter, more modern option to the RC51. *Therefore maybe the more practical choice? *A bit concerned about statements re: electrical gremlins. *Roughly the same price as RC51 (4-6k €)
Ducati 848 / Evo Seems to be even lighter, who can argue with a Ducati for impulsive purchases, but if the RC51 is an impractical commuter what does that make a Duc? *Stretches the budget (6-11k €) with the upper end including mint almost no mileage examples)
K5/K6 GSXR750 Is it silly to look so hard for a vtwin, never having had one? *After being a Honda fan, I'm a huge fan of the 750. *140hp in the size of a 600cc.....will it give me the bit of extra low end grunt I was missing in the 600rr or will I wind up wringing the throttle again and getting myself into trouble

Lastly: Multiple 03-09 liter bike options favoring the R1 & 1000rr for dirt cheap 3-4k €. *I'm a bit hesitant to go this route as I know the liter bikes got downright nasty at that time (ZX10 anyone?), but had heard great things about the RR & the R1, specifically that the RR calmed the fireblade down alot and got rid of the nasty tendency to tank slap. With that said, I haven't ridden in 5 years, and nothing above 130 hp in 10. *Maybe its a bit exaggerated to step right into the liter scene again.

So in summary, I'm the stereotypical youthful hooligan who has grown into a successful middle aged guy and somehow managed to survive long enough to procreate. How can I scratch the itch for the right price? *Given my background & preference for 'heavier' middleweights, am I best served by the Aprilia/RC? *Or better going with a lighter more maneuverable option like the 750? Am I gonna splash myself across the 'pave' on a proper liter bike after a 5 year pause? *Anyone have experience with the V4 racebikes available today? *Not an option for the first purchase, but I might go the cheap, lower power of the 750 or even a 600 today, and reserve a new RSV4 factory or the like as the dream purchase for a year down the road once my skills are back at par and the wife's concerns are alleviated a bit.

I'd really appreciate any advice from riders with experience across classes and engine styles. Flame away!

Rob
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 07:19 AM
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that's a lengthy post. i spent about 8 months in bed from a motorcycle accident, around the same age. That's nearly 20 years ago for me so from here i just buy the latest written-off bike. Latest one being the cbr 15. From my experience i can never find much difference between any gixxer and cosmetically i feel they've never changed their look. The RSV will sound the best! my Ducati 848 was one unreliable bastard, it sucks pushing bikes and i pushed this many times.

I want to vote but none have my interest. You only live once, make a new list :)

I'll start you off
M1
RSV4
S1000RR
Panigale
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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M1? :) I think you missed the bit about the budget, but indeed it was a lengthy post.....

The RSV4 is definitely on the list for the new dream bike purchase in the coming years. With all of the technology goodies. But coming back after a break I think a 2nd hand option makes more sense. I don't want to be 'that' guy with the 20k € exotic literbike that he just low sided.....his fault or not. Any experience with the V4 motor vs the I4 & V2 configurations?

848 unreliable? I understood they were much improved over the earlier 748/916/998 generation. Not interested in pushing motorcycles again, that's for sure. 20 yrs old was fun, and chicks dig motorcycles, but not the men that have to push them.
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 09:43 AM
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If you want something to ride around on on nice sunny weekends that is guaranteed smiles every time it's a pretty easy choice. Buy the rc51

Enjoyment isn't about specs it's about the ride. The 51 sounds incredible, the combination of the exhaust, gear driven cams, and Induction noise (through 62mm throttles) is unreal.

Plus there are still amazing parts for it. And with a bit of work they handle beautifully
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 09:58 AM
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...RC51s - My lustful dream bike when I had the 900rr & 750.....
Your lust object... Get that one

EDI: Noticed you're in Belgium? Where are you located?


Last edited by Nuithari; 03-29-2017 at 10:00 AM.
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 10:51 AM
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The rc51 to me is still a great looking bike too
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 12:11 PM
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Dont look at wibblys pic unless u wanna end up with the rc51. Lol im a young buck i appreciate newer stuff so i cant really help. But u did say your dream was to have the rc51 so might as well accomplish that.
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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 09:42 PM
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I have no experience with any of the bikes you have listed but will only advise to look at their reliability. Having 2 kids will not leave you with time to meddle with a bike that constantly needs attention.
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by robert6118 View Post
Hi all,

Several good condition 30k KM RC51s -
Aprilia RSV 1000 R (Factory?)
Ducati 848 / Evo S
K5/K6 GSXR750

Lastly: Multiple 03-09 liter bike options favoring the R1 & 1000rr for dirt cheap 3
My $0.02 based on personal experience and opinions.

RC51. Given some of the things youve ridden, you might feel likeit doesnt live up to the picture you have in your head. SOunds like you like some reasonably mileage, and parts availability could be an issue for ongoing routine maintenance.

Aprilia, not my taste personally, cant offer much here.

Ducati 848. Kinda the poor mans version of the bigger brother. Didnt excite me hugely. nice bike, bit of fun, but go to a trackday for example, and youre gonna find you lack a bit of the raw grunt you say you like.

K5/6 gsxr good, solid all round bikes. good balance of handling / power / size etc. A bit beige as far as sports bikes go, IMO.

Litre options. S1000rr, My personal take of this bike was that its f*ckin easy to ride fast, but it does so with such an inherently german efficiency, that it became a bit less exciting to ride for me, felt like the bike was doing all the work, and I never felt like *I* had acheived something, as much as the bike did. Loads of raw power, surprisingly light handling, feels small to sit on. apart from the fact that I didnt develop an emotional feeling for it, it was a great bike.

R1s. 03-09 covers four generations. 03 last of the 5pw model. decent bike, but IMO pales compared to several of the other options.
04-06 R1 is awesome looking, great all round bike, first of the undertail exhaust R1's. good balance, Id say medium sized for a sprtsbike, FEELS smaller than the GSXR's to sit on, but more power.
07-08 R1, I currently have one of these and i freaking LOVE IT. its has the best brakes and suspension of any R1 (pre 2015 upgrades) the most raw power of any R1 (again, pre 2015) and is an absoltue screamer. Exceptionally well balanced, loads of grunt. Fancy parts are hard to find, its the R1 model with the least availability of aftermarket stuff, as it was only a 2 year production run, and literally everything on it is different from the previous, and successive generations.

09 R1, first of the crossplanes, they are deceptive to ride, open the throttle, feel a bit excited, look down, and realise youre going a hell of a lot faster tha you realised. unique engine sounds, and power delivery. LOADS of aftermarket stuff available, being early Versions of the crossplane theyre a bit cheaper now. One of my favourite bikes.

SHORT VERSION:
By the RC51, ride it for 6 months to tick it off your bucket list, then sell it and get a 09-12 R1.

If it's got tits, or tyres, It needs to be ridden hard.
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 05:53 AM Thread Starter
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Your lust object... Get that one

EDI: Noticed you're in Belgium? Where are you located?
Nuithari, I'm working in Bruxelles and living in the Ottignies LLN area. I wouldn't be getting a bike again if it wasn't for the parking garage at work and garage at home...I hate thieves!!!!
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 06:06 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Tigertim for quite a bit of info. I'm surprised you think the 51 would be disappointing. Writing my book above got me looking at dyno charts and the 51 has the best torque and one of the highest HPS at 5-6K rpm which is exactly what I want...now the question is how much of a pain is the extra weight. I did appreciate how much skinnier the 600rr was versus my 900 for city work...

I think your summary hit it on the head, and I suspect I'll get the 51 for a year or two to get warmed back up, followed by a more recent dream purchase. I've even seen some gorgeous LE R1s in the area, although that makes them the 06 and not the years you recommend.

You think the R1 is well suited to the heavy city traffic as well? I have no experience but a buddy had an 03 and he mentioned the ridiculously long first gear...In 30-50kmh do you just leave it in 1st and let the engines grunt pull you along at low rpm?
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 08:46 AM
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Nuithari, I'm working in Bruxelles and living in the Ottignies LLN area. I wouldn't be getting a bike again if it wasn't for the parking garage at work and garage at home...I hate thieves!!!!
Haha, yeah. I understand why you'd like a bike in Brussels though. Most congested city in the world according to Forbes :P
I live in Antwerp, the second worst in that same study :P

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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 10:26 AM
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before you make a decision on based on weight, keep in mind these numbers.

rc51 - 489 wet
09 r1 - 476 wet
s1000rr - 458 wet
aprilia rsv1000r - 472 wet



so yeah, the 51 is a little portly, but about 20 pounds of that is in the boat anchor stock exhaust canister.



it's also assuredly the most reliable of the bunch. tons of these with well over 100000kms on them without even requiring a valve adjustment.



and you're right about the midrange. from the standpoint of riding on the road, a big twin absolutely trumps all the others in low and midrange, which is all you'll be using. if you buy one i wouldn't expect to get bored of it and sell it a couple years later.
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Haha, yeah. I understand why you'd like a bike in Brussels though. Most congested city in the world according to Forbes :P
I live in Antwerp, the second worst in that same study :P
Yes and no....I don't want to go back to daily riding with the resulting risk (and opportunity for hooliganism). On the other hand, my commute is anywhere from 30 mins to 3 hours....and with two kids at home the commute in nice weather is an easier ride than being alone on the weekends :). Shrug, life is compromise, but everything is better with a racebike.
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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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@wibbly

Fair points, but I was referring more to the GSXR and the I4 liter bikes....there we are talking, what, a hundred pound difference?

I never minded the extra lbs on the 900rr and always got a kick out of the riders in south Florida who called her porky but had clearly no problem with second helpings at the dinner table :)

It's nice to hear ten years later that Hondas still have the reputation for going the distance...
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 03:14 PM
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oh god no. 100pounds?


my built 600rr with a ton of weight savings was 382lbs full of gas. that's down about 30 pounds from stock.


pretty well every i4 litre bike is going to be 440+ pounds. the new r1 with its magnesium wheels, case covers, subframe, etc is STILL 440lbs. the predecessor was closer to 480 as mentioned above. the bmw is 460, the aprilia rsv4 is about 460 as well. the cbr 1000rr (08+) is about 440, but the ones before it are 460ish.



everyone has this idea that new bikes are super light and awesome, but it's not the case. the rc51 is heavier than these, yes, but it carries its weight well (ie handles very nicely) and can shed quite a bit very easily.
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oh god no. 100pounds?


my built 600rr with a ton of weight savings was 382lbs full of gas. that's down about 30 pounds from stock.


pretty well every i4 litre bike is going to be 440+ pounds. the new r1 with its magnesium wheels, case covers, subframe, etc is STILL 440lbs. the predecessor was closer to 480 as mentioned above. the bmw is 460, the aprilia rsv4 is about 460 as well. the cbr 1000rr (08+) is about 440, but the ones before it are 460ish.



everyone has this idea that new bikes are super light and awesome, but it's not the case. the rc51 is heavier than these, yes, but it carries its weight well (ie handles very nicely) and can shed quite a bit very easily.
Thanks, I must have mixed up dry and wet weights. Guess it just means its still a rider's race if you are carrying an extra 10 kgs...I'm not worried about twenty on the bike.
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-30-2017, 03:26 PM
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dry weights are meaningless, manufacturers use them to make their product sound better, then provide weights that don't include things like the battery. it's a bunch of bullshit and is completely misleading.



curb weight is all that matters. the bike ready to ride, with a full tank of gas (people love to post weights with only a small amount of gas, again to make it sound better than it is).


an 18 litre tank holds almost 30pounds of fuel. so it's a big difference.
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 03:59 AM
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Thanks Tigertim for quite a bit of info. I'm surprised you think the 51 would be disappointing. Writing my book above got me looking at dyno charts and the 51 has the best torque and one of the highest HPS at 5-6K rpm which is exactly what I want...now the question is how much of a pain is the extra weight. I did appreciate how much skinnier the 600rr was versus my 900 for city work...

I think your summary hit it on the head, and I suspect I'll get the 51 for a year or two to get warmed back up, followed by a more recent dream purchase. I've even seen some gorgeous LE R1s in the area, although that makes them the 06 and not the years you recommend.

You think the R1 is well suited to the heavy city traffic as well? I have no experience but a buddy had an 03 and he mentioned the ridiculously long first gear...In 30-50kmh do you just leave it in 1st and let the engines grunt pull you along at low rpm?
Happy to share my opinion!!
The '06 LE is a fantastic bike but be careful theres a lot of pretenders out there. A genuine LE is still worth pretty good money (often still go for 10k $usd or more in good condition) because they are quite collectible. Quite a few people get caught out and buy a yellow '06 that has been made to LOOK like the LE, but isnt one at all.
I wouldnt say I don't recommend them, just that the 09'-14' models seemed like they would tickle your fancy.

Yes, Id say the 09-14 r1s would be fine in traffic. They do tend to run a little hot which is normal for them. There are things you can do to make 'em run a little cooler, such as engine ice, and a handful of other mods, that a used bike will likely already have anyway

If it's got tits, or tyres, It needs to be ridden hard.
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 03-31-2017, 06:37 AM
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after a 5 year stretch of no bike i recently went through the same situation knowing it may be my last love affair at 49 lol .I ended up with a 2010 Ducati 1198 plenty of power when you may need it and good price .I will never go back to a 600 cc the litre bike is it for me hope it helps

Ducati 1198 2010
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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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Just figured I'd post a quick update. Passed my Belgian Moto license exams and took my first test ride today. Mint 05 Ducati 999 with full Termi exhaust and ECU. I can't sleep or stop thinking about it.....and am seeing a RC51 Sunday morning. That Duc was so skinny and sexy, unlike anything I've ever ridden. I think I'm hooked on the vtwin and anything other than a dream bike seems an unlikely choice 😁
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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 06:26 PM
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The Duc is a headache. Buy a 51 and never look back.

Here's what they look like after you remortgage your house and spend it on shiny stuff


https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/f69Kr7
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 06:54 PM
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All this Honda fanboyism ... The Ape is a better bike than anything else on that pole.
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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 06:57 PM
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@robert6118

The Duc is a headache. Buy a 51 and never look back.

Here's what they look like after you remortgage your house and spend it on shiny stuff


https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/f69Kr7
Cool bike but it's ancient.

OP, go for something newer, better tech and more power.
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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 07:04 PM
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Who needs power to enjoy the ride.

If you want to enter **** swinging contests at Starbucks then maybe. But horsepower isn't the be all end all when it comes to what makes a great bike.

Most of these new bikes don't spool up until you're breaking every speed law in the country anyway. It's a waste
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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 09:02 PM
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Who needs power to enjoy the ride.



If you want to enter **** swinging contests at Starbucks then maybe. But horsepower isn't the be all end all when it comes to what makes a great bike.



Most of these new bikes don't spool up until you're breaking every speed law in the country anyway. It's a waste

Lol... pretty contradicting statement, don't you think?
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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-19-2017, 10:20 PM
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Not really. I build my bikes for me. When i go to meets everyone ignores mine and worships the bmws

That's totally fine
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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 01:18 AM Thread Starter
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@robert6118

The Duc is a headache. Buy a 51 and never look back.

Here's what they look like after you remortgage your house and spend it on shiny stuff


https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/f69Kr7
Wow, truly one of the nicest builds I've ever seen. Is there anything prettier than a hint,mount exhaust? Two of them side by side? Reminds me of my ho mount full Hindle system on my 900rr.

Sadly that paint scheme is 2k out of budget. Here is the 51 which I'm going to see....

http://m.autoscout24.be/offre/honda-vtr-1000-essence-blanc-307694299

And the Duc I rode

http://m.autoscout24.be/offre/ducati-999-ducati-performance-essence-rouge-310609103

Last edited by robert6118; 05-20-2017 at 01:21 AM.
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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 01:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mina View Post
Cool bike but it's ancient.

OP, go for something newer, better tech and more power.
I like the diversity of opinions...I had a very experienced track guy recommend me a k5 1000 despite me specifically saying my main goal was dream bike lust, controllable street power, and MAYBE the track if I found out I couldn't behave. I think his rec was driven by the relative rarity of parts for both the Duc and 51 but still.....

Maybe I'm just a bit thick (or poor) but I've never had the latest and greatest, and have always been attracted to what most people consider quirky race bikes (900rr, SRAD 750s).

I still get a laugh out of the 'more power' and 'more tech' arguments. I never got out of 1st gear on the test ride except to row the gears. The power I want (and what I think counts) is the power at 4k RPM in 1st and 2nd. Is there ANYTHING better than a liter vtwin for that purpose? Maybe starting on a 250, and building out my own 900rr to do battle with everyone on the latest gsxr1000 makes me a bit contrarian 😁.

I found this in Germany as well and will most likely test it just to get a feel. A bit worried though if I like it as I remember when it came out it was referred to as a Widowmaker in my circle of riders. I still think it's a ridiculous idea for the street.....

http://m.autoscout24.be/offre/kawasaki-essence-noir-310432628

In the end it's that intangible factor you get when you sit on a bike for the first time. The Duc definitely had it (and the styling was much much better in person). Now curious how the Honda stacks up.

Last edited by robert6118; 05-20-2017 at 01:36 AM.
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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 05-20-2017, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mina View Post
Cool bike but it's ancient.

OP, go for something newer, better tech and more power.
I chased the most power, latest tech, most bling, spend everything you have for the latest and greatest wiz bang bike for years and in the end the ride wasn't worth the hassle or any more fun.

Went back to a middleweight 5 or 6 years ago and never looked back. Now I have two newer, but older tech street bikes that I love riding, am going on three seasons with and don't see them going away any time soon.

Much happier, have more money in the bank and haven't gotten a single ticket in years.

To each their own; the RC51 is an incredible street mount. OP, the Duc you were looking at, just saying while nice they are not what they are cracked up to be.

- '17 Ducati Supersport S
- '13 Kymco Super 8 150
- '11 Triumph Sprint GT
- '10 Yamaha WR250R
- Past rides: too many to list
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