Excessive Force on dog shooting? Discuss. - 600RR.net
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View Poll Results: Did the officer use excessive force on the dog?
Yes, excessive force was used. 23 54.76%
No, the cop needed to protect himself/others 19 45.24%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Excessive Force on dog shooting? Discuss.

Excessive Force?? Discuss in a civil manner. Not attended to be a cop bashing thread.

Most of the time, I side with the civilian in these cases however;

IMO, the dog showed intent to harm with that final lunge and the cop acted within his rights to protect himself/others.

Owner should have taken better precaution and put him in the vehicle where he couldn't get out.



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post #2 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 01:58 PM
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Man, dog deaths wrench my heart.

The dog did show intent to harm, the cop protected himself. I just wish there woulda been another way around it.

I can't watch that again man that is terrible seeing a dog in pain like that.

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post #3 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:02 PM
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I can't watch that, I love dogs more than most people.

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post #4 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:03 PM
 
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Is it just me or did the video change..




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post #5 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:14 PM
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Sad and sickening. I can somewhat understand the cops being scared but you had to shoot it? Do cops in Cali not carry tasers? But seriously, that is not an aggressive dog, that is a dog that was trying to protect its owner...thats it. From the way he acts to start off, that dog had at least some training...he wasnt running around. the owner had control. And that dog was not seriously trying to attack the cops or he would have done it as close as he was. He was simply trying to get them away from his owner. They should have let the guy go and told him to get control of his dog first (he's in cuffs not like he can run far). I dont have audio, what did the guy even do?
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post #6 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:17 PM
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dunno. Looks like he was recording the cops and they didn't like it so they arrested him (which is illegal in this case). he wasn't interfering with their police work, simply taking a video of public employees in a public place. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he files a huge lawsuit against the PD and wins

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post #7 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:19 PM
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The officer panicked and unfortunately reacted with his sidearm. IMO it was CLEAR the dog wasn't a threat to the officers life.

Less than 10 seconds before the officer shot the dog, the dog was sniffing the grass. That shows the dog was not in a violent state.

The officer should be reprimanded as if he had shot any other member of someones family.

The use of lethal force comes with prerequisites to which I didn't see. If the officer felt the need to, he should have tasered the dog.


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post #8 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:21 PM
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Allegedly the man was asked to turn down his music in his car. (which by the audio doesn't sound as if it would be in violation of any noise ordinance. Especially during that time of day...


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post #9 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:21 PM
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Ok thats what it looked like but was curious. Guess things are different in Cali. If that was here the whole neighborhood would be out watching. With as much as this has been happening lately, cops obviously need to get training for dogs. I mean seriously all cops here carry pepper spray and tasers, all of which would have been a better choice.
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post #10 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niner1000RR View Post

The officer should be reprimanded as if he had shot any other member of someones family.
Thats what I never have gotten. You kill a cop dog you get charged as if you killed a person. But a cop kills a family pet for no reason and then its just an animal and "Sorry, I felt threatened"
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post #11 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Just one of the news stories for those who don't have audio:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...rs-arrest?lite

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post #12 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:44 PM
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Why is a cop trying to capture a dog? Isn't that what animal control is for?

That would be like a cop trying to capture an alligator. They are not trained for that and shouldn't be doing it. The dog was on the bumper of the truck and couldn't go anywhere, just leave it till animal control arrives.

You didnt watch the video.. That was the OTHER dog shooting... this is a different one.
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post #13 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 02:58 PM
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Would these comments if that was a man with a knife just out walking about and then approached them. It appeared the officer before he shot the dog tried to grab at the leash. You dont get time to decide if a taser is going to stop the threat. Ive been the "dummy" while in afghanistan for dog training. I love dogs as much as the next one. And the one thing most dogs are known for is loyalty. Yes he was all calm with the owner but got more aggressive as they were dragging the owner away. If you think you can KNOW for CERTAIN what the dog would do then I will call you a liar.

Was it justified, yes. Was there alternative measures, you dont know. Depending on the department, their escalation of force may be different. Anyone have any data on tasering dogs and effectiveness.. their skin is much thicker than ours, so do you know if the barbs would penetrate ?
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post #14 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 03:10 PM
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Man this stuff breaks my heart. The officer had to protect himself but damn this kills me. Like other have said I wish there was another way around it but everything happened to fast.


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post #15 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 03:15 PM
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Thats whats key in this.. reaction time.. here is a screentshot of the officer trying to get the leash and the dogs response.. I know for a fact I am not getting bit...

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post #16 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 03:25 PM
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Was hoping this wouldnt be posted but here's what happened since no one seems to know.

The man (being arrested) drove past a live police scene (armed robbery) with music blaring, parked his car, exited his car with his dog and began filming the cops. He was asked to turn down his music and leave, didnt, and was shouting at police officers about why there wasnt any black officers on scene. Once the live scene was over he was arrested, asked to put his dog away, which he did, however, the dog jumped out of the car and rushed to his owner.

You guys know the rest.

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post #17 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 03:37 PM
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It's not just one person's fault here.
First, the dog owner should mind his own business and let the cops do their work. Cops do not like being filmed, period.
Second, the dog did not show any signs of aggressiveness. The shooting officer clearly got close to the dog and it was just defending itself. It was not necessary to use his gun in this situation. Cops are quick to draw their guns as they are quick to pull the trigger.
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post #18 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 03:43 PM
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The dog is an innocent victim as a result of stuipid human behavior.

The owner of the dog is 100% to blame here. He had no reason to stop and hassle the cops, doing so put himself and his dog in harms way.

The dog was doing what loyal dogs do and protecting his owner. The cop had to do what cops do and that's protect themselves from danger. Reasonable attempts were made to subdue the dog.

The only person to blame is the tool who took it upon himself to hassle the cops and as a result his dog suffered tremendously.

If you are committing a crime, and someone dies as a result of it (be it intentional or not), you can be charged with murder. I think the owner should be charged in the same manor he would if he killed a dog.

What a shame.


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post #19 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 03:59 PM
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^^^ I agree. Definitely owner's fault. I don't blame the dog at all, and I don't blame the officer either. I'm sure LEO have seen their share of results of dog attacks. Keep in mind that this is a crime scene so everyone is on a heighten state of alert. For all they know, this could have been an accomplish trying to distract them. The owner is an idiot for stopping, for creating a scene, and for putting his dog in danger.

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post #20 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austicus View Post
The dog is an innocent victim as a result of stuipid human behavior.

The owner of the dog is 100% to blame here. He had no reason to stop and hassle the cops, doing so put himself and his dog in harms way.

The dog was doing what loyal dogs do and protecting his owner. The cop had to do what cops do and that's protect themselves from danger. Reasonable attempts were made to subdue the dog.

The only person to blame is the tool who took it upon himself to hassle the cops and as a result his dog suffered tremendously.

If you are committing a crime, and someone dies as a result of it (be it intentional or not), you can be charged with murder. I think the owner should be charged in the same manor he would if he killed a dog.

What a shame.
Subject closed! Loyal dog to a shitty owner.

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post #21 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:06 PM
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Would these comments if that was a man with a knife just out walking about and then approached them. It appeared the officer before he shot the dog tried to grab at the leash. You dont get time to decide if a taser is going to stop the threat. Ive been the "dummy" while in afghanistan for dog training. I love dogs as much as the next one. And the one thing most dogs are known for is loyalty. Yes he was all calm with the owner but got more aggressive as they were dragging the owner away. If you think you can KNOW for CERTAIN what the dog would do then I will call you a liar.

Was it justified, yes. Was there alternative measures, you dont know. Depending on the department, their escalation of force may be different. Anyone have any data on tasering dogs and effectiveness.. their skin is much thicker than ours, so do you know if the barbs would penetrate ?
So if the guy had a son in the car and he jumped out to protect his dad would he have been justified to shot the kid? Kids can bite too and that dog was not that old so basically a kid. I've seen aggressive dogs and dogs that are actually going to attack. That dog was basically pushing the officers away from his dad. Heck my old german shepard did the same thing when me and my sis would horse around. Cops are "supposed" to be trained to use non-lethal means of force right? So what about the pepper spray? They use military grade which is supposed to protect against bears so I'm pretty sure it would have worked on a dog. But we are talking about Cali here where cops get away with anything. And as far as a crime scene...I did not see him crossing any yellow tape and loud music is not an offense you can be arrested for.

Also, I see one black dude and a bunch of white ppl video taping. So is there a reason the officers were ONLY tapped messing with him?? Just saying

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post #22 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:18 PM
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Whether the owner was wrong in not listening to the cops or not has zero to do with the cops shooting the dog.


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post #23 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:23 PM
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Whether the owner was wrong in not listening to the cops or not has zero to do with the cops shooting the dog.
Well it can be suggested that if the owner had minded his own business and listened, we wouldn't even be having this thread.

By not listening he put himself and the dog at greater risk for being hurt, which in this case was death.

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post #24 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:32 PM
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Well it can be suggested that if the owner had minded his own business and listened, we wouldn't even be having this thread.

By not listening he put himself and the dog at greater risk for being hurt, which in this case was death.

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So basically what you just said is that because the owner acted in a completely legal manner (besides supposed loud music) the dog got shot? Come to AL man. Everybody and their brother "rubbernecks" here. If something like that happened here I promise the whole neighborhood is going to be out watching.... no matter what the cops say.
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post #25 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austicus View Post
The dog is an innocent victim as a result of stuipid human behavior.

The owner of the dog is 100% to blame here. He had no reason to stop and hassle the cops, doing so put himself and his dog in harms way.

The dog was doing what loyal dogs do and protecting his owner. The cop had to do what cops do and that's protect themselves from danger. Reasonable attempts were made to subdue the dog.

The only person to blame is the tool who took it upon himself to hassle the cops and as a result his dog suffered tremendously.

If you are committing a crime, and someone dies as a result of it (be it intentional or not), you can be charged with murder. I think the owner should be charged in the same manor he would if he killed a dog.

What a shame.
Well said

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post #26 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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So basically what you just said is that because the owner acted in a completely legal manner (besides supposed loud music) the dog got shot? Come to AL man. Everybody and their brother "rubbernecks" here. If something like that happened here I promise the whole neighborhood is going to be out watching.... no matter what the cops say.
I believe rubbernecking and harrassing the cops are 2 different things. If you're just sitting back recording/watching the event unfold...ok whatever...just stay out of the way and don't cause a scene.

However, when you're clearly heckling the officer's during a violent event for no good reason....well that's just

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post #27 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Niner1000RR View Post
Whether the owner was wrong in not listening to the cops or not has zero to do with the cops shooting the dog.
Actually has alot to do with it lol, had he listened to the cops, the situation most likely would not have escalated to the shooting.

Already said before, dumbass owner with a loyal dog. Had he decided to not harrass the police we would not be having this convo plain and simple. Yes officer could have used taser/pepper spray or whatever, but for all we know that may have done jack **** to the dog

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post #28 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CepheiA View Post
Was hoping this wouldnt be posted but here's what happened since no one seems to know.

The man (being arrested) drove past a live police scene (armed robbery) with music blaring, parked his car, exited his car with his dog and began filming the cops. He was asked to turn down his music and leave, didnt, and was shouting at police officers about why there wasnt any black officers on scene. Once the live scene was over he was arrested, asked to put his dog away, which he did, however, the dog jumped out of the car and rushed to his owner.

You guys know the rest.
I hope what you post is 100% accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lownslo600 View Post
So basically what you just said is that because the owner acted in a completely legal manner (besides supposed loud music) the dog got shot? Come to AL man. Everybody and their brother "rubbernecks" here. If something like that happened here I promise the whole neighborhood is going to be out watching.... no matter what the cops say.
Relax. Nope I don't live in AL, I don't know what it's like in AL.

I don't even get your point. You can tell from the video there were plenty of others rubbernecking. This guy was astray and was closer than the rest. He coulda rubbernecked at the distance where everybody else was. And according to CepheiA he was heckling the cops, AFTER he was told to leave. He SHOULD'VE quit and left there. He didn't.

If I see a scene like this and the cops told me to turn down the volume in my car I would, just out of respect because they have a job to do. If they were all white cops, would I get out of the car, take my phone, record and ask them why there aren't any Asian cops there after they told me to leave? No. That guy sounds idiotic. He should've just minded his own business.

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post #29 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:46 PM
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I believe rubbernecking and harrassing the cops are 2 different things. If you're just sitting back recording/watching the event unfold...ok whatever...just stay out of the way and don't cause a scene.

However, when you're clearly heckling the officer's during a violent event for no good reason....well that's just
I'm not discussing what he should have done. I dont have audio at work so I cant hear him but like I said I do not see any yellow tape marking off a crime scene and I did not see him pass the cop cars. Unless he threatened the cops what does it matter if he was heckling the cops. Two wrongs dont make a right. But one of those wrongs came from a tax paid SERVANT of the public that is supposed to be an adult. I seen nothing but a trigger happy gunman with a badge he obviously doesnt need. With as much bs cop drama that happens that way I can't blame anyone for taking video or even talking bad (if he did) about law enforcement agents in a state that are known to do as they please.
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post #30 of 164 (permalink) Old 07-02-2013, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lownslo600 View Post
So if the guy had a son in the car and he jumped out to protect his dad would he have been justified to shot the kid? Kids can bite too and that dog was not that old so basically a kid. I've seen aggressive dogs and dogs that are actually going to attack. That dog was basically pushing the officers away from his dad. Heck my old german shepard did the same thing when me and my sis would horse around. Cops are "supposed" to be trained to use non-lethal means of force right? So what about the pepper spray? They use military grade which is supposed to protect against bears so I'm pretty sure it would have worked on a dog. But we are talking about Cali here where cops get away with anything. And as far as a crime scene...I did not see him crossing any yellow tape and loud music is not an offense you can be arrested for.

Also, I see one black dude and a bunch of white ppl video taping. So is there a reason the officers were ONLY tapped messing with him?? Just saying
You obviously have no grasp on reality. If a teenager jumped out of the car with a knife, tasers are known to work on people and that has been documented.

Yes Cali cops get away with everything as documented by the cops that are fired or incarcerated. There is something called an investigation and those that are not arrested or incarcerated obviously were found to not be at fault.

Yes its cause he is black, thats it... hey whitey grab darky over there.. Oh wait I am black and if I was the cop and he asked him to turn down his radio and stop walking into the scene than I would detain him as well. Notice how no one else was walking into "the scene" where the cops were working.

Again hindsight is 20/20. How many people lowside and then AFTER realize they had alternatives. Thats the benefit of sitting behind your computer and looking at something that has already taken place, you can see options from the OUTSIDE that they were not able to see while participating.

But please its a slow day at work, let me know what else these horrible cops are doing cause I can really see how they went out looking for a black man to detain and dog to shoot...
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