Battery won't charge? Help! - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-14-2008, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thumbs down Bike won't start when engine is hot? Help!

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So I bought a battery tender and charged my battery last night. This morning, it started right up and I rode 7 miles to a gas station. After filling up, again the bike wouldn't start. The good news is I learned how to push-start my bike. After an 80-mile ride, I made it back home. Now the engine is cold and the bike starts right up. So it seems like the problem is that my bike won't start when the engine is hot. Is that a common problem? Does that narrow down what the problem might be?

To summarize: The battery will start the bike when the engine is cold. The battery won't start the bike when the engine is hot. But I can push-start the bike when the engine is hot.


Original Post:
Back in the spring, I went to start my bike, and the battery was dead. I jumped it and went on a 70 mile ride. The next morning, the battery still didn't have enough juice to start the bike, so I replaced the battery with a generic 600rr battery from Apex Battery. For a few weeks, everything was fine. Then yesterday morning, I rode to work. At lunchtime, the bike wouldn't start. I jumped the bike again, and rode home, and then let the bike idle for 20 minutes, in the hope that the battery might charge a little. Then I shut it off and went to bed. This morning, I started the bike again and then let it idle for another 20 minutes, and then I hopped on and wheeled it out of my garage. I stupidly kicked into first with the kickstand still down, so the engine got killed. After putting up the kickstand, I tried to restart the bike, and the battery is totally dead.

What the heck is going on here? I replaced the stock battery just a couple of months ago. It seems to me like my problem is likely not the battery. What are the likely culprits here? My bike is mostly stock, except for some LED signals.

Any help would be most appreciated!

Last edited by malp327; 08-16-2008 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Retitling because I've narrowed down the problem
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-14-2008, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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...and before you ask: No, I don't do anything silly like start the bike repeatedly. My commute however is pretty short: 7 miles (10 minutes), most of which is at highway speed.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-14-2008, 01:54 PM
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-14-2008, 02:21 PM
 
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he has an 05 - has the battery been tested?
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-14-2008, 02:45 PM
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In that case, go ahead and test the resistance in the stator windings. disconnect the harness with the 3 yellow wires and test resistance between each wire coming from the stator. resistance should be between .1 and 1.0 Ohms.

report back if you're unsure what some readings mean.
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-16-2008, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Bike won't start when engine is hot

So I bought a battery tender and charged my battery last night. This morning, it started right up and I rode 7 miles to a gas station. After filling up, again the bike wouldn't start. The good news is I learned how to push-start my bike. After an 80-mile ride, I made it back home. Now the engine is cold and the bike starts right up. So it seems like the problem is that my bike won't start when the engine is hot. Is that a common problem? Does that narrow down what the problem might be?

To summarize: The battery will start the bike when the engine is cold. The battery won't start the bike when the engine is hot. But I can push-start the bike when the engine is hot.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-16-2008, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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I bought a multimeter, and here's what I see:
Engine off: 12.5 volts (haven't recharged the battery since my 80-mile ride this morning)
Engine idling at 1400 RPM: 13.75
Engine running at 5000 RPM: 12-13

After 15 minutes of idling: 13.75 still
....but now, when I rev it up to 5000 RPM, the readings fluctuate between 9 and 11 volts. This is clearly not good. So what's busted?

Last edited by malp327; 08-16-2008 at 07:13 PM. Reason: adding more numbers
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2008, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malp327 View Post
I bought a multimeter, and here's what I see:
Engine off: 12.5 volts (haven't recharged the battery since my 80-mile ride this morning)
Engine idling at 1400 RPM: 13.75
Engine running at 5000 RPM: 12-13

After 15 minutes of idling: 13.75 still
....but now, when I rev it up to 5000 RPM, the readings fluctuate between 9 and 11 volts. This is clearly not good. So what's busted?
sounds like the battery to me, maybe the R/R too. if the R/R is working the voltage should remain above 13.7 volts at all times, it should never drop below that.

you should load test the battery if you haven't done so already, and test the stator windings for high or inconsistent resistance.
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2008, 04:23 AM
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FYI- you should not let your bike idle to charge the battery. batteries don't start charging 'til after 3000 rpm..... your voltage after an 80-mile ride should be well over 12.5 cold, i think your battery is done, or else something's up with your alternator. my battery is 13.1 or thereabouts when it's cold.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2008, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. GoFast View Post
FYI- you should not let your bike idle to charge the battery. batteries don't start charging 'til after 3000 rpm..... your voltage after an 80-mile ride should be well over 12.5 cold, i think your battery is done, or else something's up with your alternator. my battery is 13.1 or thereabouts when it's cold.
*Chuckle*

Care to make a wager on that? I've made money this way before. believe me, the battery is always charging regardless of the motor's RPM....
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2008, 10:34 AM
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yeah dude, on a modern sportbike the break-even point (point at which the alternator is putting out enough juice so the bike doesn't draw from the battery) is usually between 1000-1500 RPM

but yeah as knightslugger said, have the battery load tested, really sounds like a bad battery. My local shop will do a quick battery test and not charge anything (obviously taking them the battery), it doesn't take but a minute

if battery checks out good, do a resistance test on the stator wires (one lead on AC1, the other on AC2; AC1 to AC3; AC2 to AC3) and use the range he gave you then do an insulation breakdown test by putting the red lead to any of the stator wires and the black lead to a ground. You should get OL/infinity (stator should NOT have continuity to ground is the point here)

also, sounds dumb but double and tripple check all your connections, you'd be surprised how many people go out and buy new parts only to realize later that the only problem was a wire trying to slip out of a connector or simply something just not plugged in completely


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-23-2008, 12:24 AM
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This sounds just like my situation. After the bike has been on tender for a day it will start great. But when everything is up to a normal operating temp, the battery seems to be losing out. It will start to crank but then get slower and slower, all within a few seconds. But if I let the bike sit for a few hours, like a full day at work, it will start perfectly. Then when everything is warmed up again, no more starting. It jump starts just fine every time.

I tried another battery but same situation. Originally I had thought I was driving with too low of RPM all the time. So then I tried driving with the RPM between 5k and 10k at all times just to make sure it's getting charged. But this didn't solve anything.

My bike is an '05. I had a friend years ago that owned an '03 with the same situation. When all the parts were warmed up, it wouldn't start.

I do get quite a workout now. But after about 4-5 push starts in an afternoon, I start to get worn out.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-23-2008, 12:27 AM
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I'm going to try the above mentioned ideas and see what I come up with.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-09-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malp327 View Post
I bought a multimeter, and here's what I see:
Engine off: 12.5 volts (haven't recharged the battery since my 80-mile ride this morning)
Engine idling at 1400 RPM: 13.75
Engine running at 5000 RPM: 12-13

After 15 minutes of idling: 13.75 still
....but now, when I rev it up to 5000 RPM, the readings fluctuate between 9 and 11 volts. This is clearly not good. So what's busted?
I have a similar problem. When testing the voltage, I got very similar readings to this, though it was about 13.6 when the engine was idling at 5000 RPM. I have an 03. When an 03 revs at 5000, the reading should be at 15.5. Checked the battery. When hooked up to a tester, the battery health is at 0% even when fully charged. Stupid cheap off brand battery. I tested again with a good battery. Got the same readings. The stator is working, but it was still charging at a low voltage still compared to what it should be (15.5). I checked those yellow wires near the stator, and the stator is fine actually. Because the charging system only consists of three components (battery, alternator, rectifier), the process of elimination tells me that I have a bad rectifier, as well as a shite-y battery. Fortunately the rectifier for the 03 RR is really cheap as far as rectifiers go. It retails at about 145 from Honda. I've been told not to go with an aftermarket option.. I'm going to listen. I've heard of rectifiers going bad on other bikes, and similar symptoms occur. Also, a bad rectifier can cause a stator to go bad if its not replaced. Maybe this is your problem too.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-09-2008, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by hotstaRRz View Post
I have a similar problem. When testing the voltage, I got very similar readings to this, though it was about 13.6 when the engine was idling at 5000 RPM. I have an 03. When an 03 revs at 5000, the reading should be at 15.5. Checked the battery. When hooked up to a tester, the battery health is at 0% even when fully charged. Stupid cheap off brand battery. I tested again with a good battery. Got the same readings. The stator is working, but it was still charging at a low voltage still compared to what it should be (15.5). I checked those yellow wires near the stator, and the stator is fine actually. Because the charging system only consists of three components (battery, alternator, rectifier), the process of elimination tells me that I have a bad rectifier, as well as a shite-y battery. Fortunately the rectifier for the 03 RR is really cheap as far as rectifiers go. It retails at about 145 from Honda. I've been told not to go with an aftermarket option.. I'm going to listen. I've heard of rectifiers going bad on other bikes, and similar symptoms occur. Also, a bad rectifier can cause a stator to go bad if its not replaced. Maybe this is your problem too.
A few corrections to make.

First, the 5000RPM test should not be equal to 15.5 VDC but rather be below 15.5 VDC but above the idle voltage. you should see a small increase in voltage from your idle test to 5000RPM test. if it tests above 15.5 VDC, the Regulator is no longer regulating voltage and needs replacement.

Second, Charging voltage is any voltage above the battery's standby voltage. If the battery's voltage is 12.6 VDC, then the appropriate charging voltage is any voltage greater than 12.6 VDC. The more voltage you apply, the faster the electrons can be put into the battery.

Third, everything on your bike sounds fine hotstaRRz...
post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-09-2008, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotstaRRz View Post
Also, a bad rectifier can cause a stator to go bad if its not replaced.
how is that?


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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-09-2008, 05:27 PM
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if the rectifier shorts itself, it'll burn up the stator in a quick hurry.
post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-12-2008, 10:09 PM
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The same thing is happening to me; cold starts are good, hot starts I have to jump it. I just got my battery tested at my local Honda dealership and the battery is bad "0% life". The battery through them was $131 and through everywhere else around $95 to $180. Any suggestions on battery places? Has changing the battery solved anyone's problem?

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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2008, 08:33 PM
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I just replaced the battery today and seems to have fixed the problem. Good luck to everyone else.

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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 11:02 AM
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Any ideas?

Hi guys,

I have battery that doesn't charge either, I have replaced the battery, stator and rectifier so far and still have the same issue. When cold it fires right up but after a 10 min ride you can hear it cranks slower if I fire it up the second time. By the third or forth time its dead. Any ideas?
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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 07:44 PM
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The magneto. Try replacing that
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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by (Piranha) View Post
The magneto. Try replacing that
I just ordered the tool to remove the magneto I have engine lying around I will take that one off and report back.
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