04 RR Won't start after warmed up, occurs intermittently - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
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Angry 04 RR Won't start after warmed up, occurs intermittently

Sorry for being lengthy, but I just wanted to throw everything out there at once.

Bike Facts:
Year: 2004
Bike mileage:6XXX miles
Battery: original
Fuel: Primes every time
Dash and Headlights: working prior to start
Trip Odometer and clock: reset after bike won't start

Prior Accidents:
1. Bike has gone down on it's right side (low speed, visible fairing damage only) before I bought it from the original owner. However, I did not have this problem after I purchased the bike.

2. I went down on this bike on the right side (visible fairing damage only). From what I remember, I still don't think I had the problem yet prior to my fall.

Modifications:
1. Frame Sliders (installed after problem began)
2. Aftermarket flush mounts - single filament, LED. (Installed after problem began)
3. HID low beam from Xenonrider (installed prior to problem maybe...)

1. Bike won't start again after it's warmed up and shut off. Have been dealing with this for maybe a year now. Barely cranks the first time or two, then eventually only clicks and doesn't turn over at all. However, if I wait for it to cool down to say...130-140 degrees F (just a estimate), bike starts back up again perfectly. This problem does not occur every time (let's say ~50% for argument's sake)

2. I started using a battery tender because I read a few threads where a user kept stating that the problem is the battery needs to be kept at it's fullest for it to work properly.

Results: Seems to help some of the time (hence intermittent failure maybe?) but problem still exists. Once bike gets to normal operating temperature (180-220 F) and I shut off it and restart it, it just plain doesn't work, and that's even after a full overnight charge with the tender.

3. Bought a 2005/2006 regulator/rectifier (before I realized my 2004 r/r has the exact same design).

Results: Nothing has changed.

4. I took my battery to Pep Boys to have it load tested after taking it off the battery tender.

Results:
Volts Prior to Test: 12.83
Volts under Load: 13.52
Recovery Volts: 12.90
Conclusion: "Good Battery" as stated on my results slip

5. Followed Diagnostic Troubleshooting in my 2003 Service Manual.
A. Battery Test: done at Pepboys, battery is good
B. Current Leakage Test: Below 2.0 mA (0.8 I believe)
C. Alternator Charging Coil Inspection: resistance is 0.5 Ohms across the whole board and there is no continuity between terminals and ground.
D. Charing Voltage Inspection:
1. Measured Battery Voltage: 12.70 V
2. Measured Charging Voltage with Low & Hi Beams @5K RPM: ~14.07 V
3. Measured Battery Voltage (12.7) < Measured Charging Voltage (14.07) < 15.5 V...Check!
4. If Yes, service manual says "Faulty Battery"
5. I check R/R anyways based on manual, and everything is within spec.

6. Brought the bike to a service shop in San Jose, CA and had them perform a diagnostic for $80. Unfortunately, problem wasn't surfacing while they had it. Gave me the thumbs up on the charging system (not really sure if they really diagnosed it since they were skeptical I was having a problem). Took it home and played around with it...problem resurfaced.

Now...from the results I got from the troubleshooting, is it just the battery or could it be something else (i.e. connection, short, etc) that I haven't checked.

If it's the battery...would it make sense that it starts working about after the bike cools down?


Thanks in advance everyone!
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 02:35 PM
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Sounds like your regulator/rectifier is causing the problem. Swap it out with one off a 05 model.

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interesting........

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 02:40 PM
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And to quote KS:

"the issue with the 2003-2004 isn't that it's weak, it's that the mounting design is flawed. most people will roll around town doing 30 mph in 2nd gear. that's going to put a tremendous amount of ambient heat near the R/R, and since the R/R is facing the headers, it gets overheated after a while and fails completely which can cause all sorts of problems."

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interesting........

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Bahaha, a scalp massage usually ends with a happy ending.
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Besides, you have the best girl any guy can get, an RR in the garage.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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If you look at step #3 that I took, I did swap it out. Unless I bought a faulty one (got it off ebay) then it didn't help my problem.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 03:34 PM
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I would check all the electrical connections I could find. Look for loose & or corroded connections.

Then If it's still happens I would try to check the relays. A hot relay could do this.

Hope this helps, good luck.

Ed

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 03:47 PM
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yes, check the regulator/rectifier.

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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I'm a little confused...what do you mean by check the regulator/rectifier? I followed the troubleshooting steps and it does not point to a faulty R/R.

Is there another method to check it that isn't mentioned in the service manual?
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 04:58 PM
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I have a few questions. Your bike is hot and won't start. Your starter tries to turn but doesn't have enough to turn it over. Is that correct? When this happens, pop off the seat and check the voltage of the battery, both sitting and while you're trying to start it. ( I'm a little confused on your battery test. If you have 12.83 volts and then you put a load on it, the voltage is always less while under load, how do you get more? )

What the sitting voltage is really isn't that important but the loaded voltage is. I'm not sure but this is an educated guess, If it is above 11v I'm going to say that it is your starter or a connection to it. 11 volts or more to the starter should start the engine anytime.

If you have 11 volts or more and your bike wont start, check the voltage at the starter. if it is above 11v, buy a new starter. If it is below 11v, check all the connections.

The only reason for it staring at a cooler temp is that a hot engine has more compression than a cool one. I don't know by how much the difference is but I had a car that would never start when it was hot. Maybe I needed a new starter but whan it cooled the starter could turn it over. I don't know if that is the case here or not but I guess it's a possibility.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-26-2008, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by integuy98 View Post
I'm a little confused...what do you mean by check the regulator/rectifier? I followed the troubleshooting steps and it does not point to a faulty R/R.

Is there another method to check it that isn't mentioned in the service manual?
"the issue with the 2003-2004 isn't that it's weak, it's that the mounting design is flawed. most people will roll around town doing 30 mph in 2nd gear. that's going to put a tremendous amount of ambient heat near the R/R, and since the R/R is facing the headers, it gets overheated after a while and fails completely which can cause all sorts of problems."

Quote:
Originally Posted by sincalirider View Post
interesting........

Quote:
Originally Posted by sincalirider View Post
Bahaha, a scalp massage usually ends with a happy ending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sincalirider View Post
Besides, you have the best girl any guy can get, an RR in the garage.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-26-2008, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by integuy98 View Post
If you look at step #3 that I took, I did swap it out. Unless I bought a faulty one (got it off ebay) then it didn't help my problem.
sorry about my above post. anyway, what year was the one off ebay? it may as well be a faulty one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sincalirider View Post
interesting........

Quote:
Originally Posted by sincalirider View Post
Bahaha, a scalp massage usually ends with a happy ending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sincalirider View Post
Besides, you have the best girl any guy can get, an RR in the garage.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-26-2008, 12:13 PM
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I have money on half dead Reg/Rect - my 03 is doing this now - and slugger knows his shiz inside and out
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-26-2008, 06:58 PM
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+1 Check the Reg/ Rec
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
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The starter turns over the motor fine, but you'll hear the battery start to die out, and after a few turns, just go "dead" so to speak.

The battery test is exactly what was given to me on a slip of paper from the load test done at pep boys so I really can't tell you why I'm getting higher voltage while under load.

I will check the voltage at the starter on Sunday when I get back into town.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcope17 View Post
I have a few questions. Your bike is hot and won't start. Your starter tries to turn but doesn't have enough to turn it over. Is that correct? When this happens, pop off the seat and check the voltage of the battery, both sitting and while you're trying to start it. ( I'm a little confused on your battery test. If you have 12.83 volts and then you put a load on it, the voltage is always less while under load, how do you get more? )

What the sitting voltage is really isn't that important but the loaded voltage is. I'm not sure but this is an educated guess, If it is above 11v I'm going to say that it is your starter or a connection to it. 11 volts or more to the starter should start the engine anytime.

If you have 11 volts or more and your bike wont start, check the voltage at the starter. if it is above 11v, buy a new starter. If it is below 11v, check all the connections.

The only reason for it staring at a cooler temp is that a hot engine has more compression than a cool one. I don't know by how much the difference is but I had a car that would never start when it was hot. Maybe I needed a new starter but whan it cooled the starter could turn it over. I don't know if that is the case here or not but I guess it's a possibility.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-27-2008, 03:04 AM Thread Starter
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The one off of ebay was an 2005...newer design with proper heat shield. But like I said, once i swapped it I realized my 2004 actually has the new design.

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sorry about my above post. anyway, what year was the one off ebay? it may as well be a faulty one.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 09-30-2008, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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I've just noticed that after I've had my battery on the tender for at the minimum required time to fully charge it, my voltage reads between 13.1 - 13.2 Volts, which is in it's fully charged range.

However, once I remove it from the tender, it soon after (probably less than an hour) drops to around 12.7 volts.

Anyone think this means my battery is at least part of the problem, if not completely?
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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-18-2009, 06:57 PM
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Thats normal once you remove it from its charging source. I'm currently having the same issue with my track bike and have the new '05 R/R on it with a new battery. Looking at the schematic and the symptoms, I'm thinking it is a starter relay that is going south.

Brendan
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:13 AM
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