My '03 is misfiring! Potential cylinder head problem? - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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My '03 is misfiring! Potential cylinder head problem?

Hello everyone, as the title says my '03 is misfiring. 2nd owner. Bike has 12k miles (11k of those miles being mine), with routine maintenance.

I was riding it the other day and about 3 blocks from my house it begins to misfire. Not just a little, but as if one of the cylinder's wasn't firing at all. Coast my bike back home (luckily I was up hill and my house was at the base) and decide to check for fouled plugs .

I get down and dirty, remove fairings, remove radiator from mounts...and what do I see? One of my coil pack's is sticking out of the cylinder head as if it were pushed out or knocked loose. Tell myself that isn't right, proceed to remove said coil and plug and check the plug. Plug is still good.

I then try to put the plug back in place....it falls right in place.....no threads catching....no resistance....just sitting where it should be seated and keeps spinning as I try to tighten it.

So basically the only conclusion(s) I can come up with is either A) my threads got jacked up (but I can feel the threads touching) or B) somehow cracked the cylinder head at that exact location causing the spark plug threads to no longer 'catch' because the seat is wider.

Before I start ripping my engine apart, I wanted to get your opinion about the potential problem.

AND if it is the cylinder head, on a difficulty scale of 1-10 how hard is it to remove from the bike to check? I read a previous post about the cylinder head and I think it said I could remove the cylinder head w/o actually removing the engine, is that true? I'm pretty familiar with car engines, have more or less rebuilt 2...but this would be my first bike engine to tackle.

Thanks for the help!

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 05:56 PM
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Difficulty in removing it is I'd say 5-10. You do not have to remove the engine to remove the cylinder head from the bike. There's no way of telling without pictures though.
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the quick response, so I'm guessing its hard to pin point the exact problem w/o actually seeing the threads etc....I figured as much. Hopefully I'll get plenty of info regarding this before I rip my engine apart this saturday.

BTW, what year cylinder head will fit my bike? 03-06? or just the 03-04? Thanks again

Last edited by Shinjari; 01-19-2009 at 06:56 PM.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-19-2009, 10:44 PM
 
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Just heli-coil the head while on the bike. If you don't know how, call around. Should be able to find someone to do it for not too much money either.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 03:36 PM
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Heli-coil will work for a cheap fix.but you cannot do it while it is on the bike!

When you tap the hole for the heli-coil... where will the metal chips go?

Answer = Into the cylinder. How do you get them out?

Answer = Hold the bike upside down and shake it.

Look at the plug... If the threads are good on the plug... then they're junk in the engine. Any fix... you'll have to take the head off.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 03:42 PM
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I agree, you should probably pull the head. the metal chips in the cylinder would not be good obviously. you could try and suck them out with a shop vac, but I personally would not trust it. Plus you might as well pull it off and see what the problem is 100%

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-20-2009, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses. I decided that I'm simply going to remove the head. Probably going to take off the whole engine while I'm at it and check the stuff they would check at 16k miles since I'm already in there.

So since I'll have the head off, what is this heli-coil that keeps getting brought up? Thanks again for the help.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 12:11 AM
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A heli-coil is like simply a spring. You can tap a hole larger with the heli-coil tap and insert this spring looking thing... then it creates a usable thread again. Look it up on the internet... it will be easy to find.

The only problem with it might be... you need a sealing surface for your spark plug's crush ring to seat against. If the Heli-coil taps the hole too big and you don't have enough sealing surface there... you'll have to find something else.

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Last edited by dcope17; 01-21-2009 at 12:14 AM.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 12:16 AM
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A heli-coil is like simply a spring. You can tap a hole larger with the heli-coil tap and insert this spring looking thing... then it creates a usable thread again. Look it up on the internet... it will be easy to find.

The only problem with it might be... you need a sealing surface for your spark plug's crush ring to seat against. If the Heli-coil taps the hole too big and you don't have enough sealing surface there... you'll have to find something else.
There's still no point in trying to heli-coil it on the bike when it's not even known if the threads are stripped.
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 09:40 AM
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The plug's threads are made of steel and the head is made of aluminum. The head won't strip the threads off the plug. I can't guarantee it's not the plug but I'm 99% sure.

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 06:08 PM
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how are you sure that the plug was sitting flush if the coil pack was sticking out? can you put the plug in and then put the coil pack back on top of it and completely in? it may be that the plug just came loose and needs to be threaded back in... how do you know that you didn't misalign the plug when you were trying to bolt it back into the head? please verify that you've not hastily come to the conclusions you have.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 06:10 PM
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The plug's threads are made of steel and the head is made of aluminum. The head won't strip the threads off the plug. I can't guarantee it's not the plug but I'm 99% sure.
Yes, but the threads wont strip itself. The OP said it's possible that the head is cracked, so he should take it off and check if it is. Without being torqued, the spark plugs wont strip anything, especially while riding.
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 08:58 PM
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Not while riding... but if someone changed the plugs and cross threaded one... it would be a matter of time it could finally come loose. Both are posibilities and both require removing the motor.

I just blame something going wrong to, more than likely, be operator error as opposed to structural flaws. Most people with problems here seem to bring them on themselves. However if you buy a used bike... they passed their mistakes to the person who bought the bike. Either way... a person screwed it up usually.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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In response to recent questions. I have been the owner of this bike since 2006. It had 1200 miles on it when I got it. I have changed the oil and filter regularly and this is the first time I've had to do anything besides that. First time I've touched the plugs. When I moved the radiator I saw the coil pack sticking up all the way up to the frame. I removed the coil pack which still had the spark plug in it. I removed the plug from the pack, checked if it was fouled, of wasn't so I grabbed the spark plug tool that came with the bike and attempted to reinstall the spark plug. I sat there and the spark plug just spun and spun. I then pulled it out and put it back in the coil pack and reinstalled the coil pack to verify that it would sit flush and it does.

So basically I was able to come to the theories that I have by trying various trial and error methods. Which are that the head threads are messed up or strippe which is making it so that the plug threads won't 'bite' or that somehow that specific location expanded and cracked resulting in the threads not touching or 'biting'.

Hope this helps explains things better. Feel free to ask more and I'll answer them as best as I can.

Last edited by Shinjari; 01-22-2009 at 02:01 AM.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 09:46 PM
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get a mirror or something and see if you can't see the treads... also if the coilpack will sit flush w/ the plug installed and the plug is not threading in, IE can be pulled out w/ the coilpack just after it is "flush" then something is serisouly wrong with the head. at that point only after a visual inspection by mirror i would begin tearing it down...also a good time to do some internals!!!! Good luck man!

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the suggestion with the mirror Murphdog...i didnt even think about trying that. I'm almost positive something is jacked up in there considering the plug just falls in place with no resistance. thanks for all the feedback, hopefully i get to start working on it this friday.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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well I couldn't get a good look with a mirror so I just started to dismantle the bike. About 6 hours layer I had the engine on the ground. Look inside the plug in question and without a doubt the upper part of the threads were toast. I proceeded to look at the other plugs and noticed that they were barely tight and that none of the crush washers were even crushed. So I took the engine to a buddy of mine who is a bike mechanic and is going to rethread that plug for me and do the 16k maintenance such as checking the valve clearance etc. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get the parts in because I'm jonesing to ride. Thanks for the help and I'll post pics asap.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 10:30 AM
 
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I had the same issue, will see if I can heli coil it
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Yea i found several 'fix the thread' tools AFTER i ripped it apart. Hope you get yours fixed =)


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