Knocking from transmission when in neutral - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
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Knocking from transmission when in neutral FIXED!

First! its and 08 Cbr600RR ... The other day I noticed a knocking sound as i was rolling out my bike. The bike runs great and shifts without any problems, so after my ride i came back in and did a little investigating. I put the bike on the stand and spun the tire, and noticed a consistent knocking sound as I turned the tire. The sound appears to be coming from the transmission. I took the tension off the chain by moving the tire back, and the knocking stopped. As i put more tension on the chain the knocking came back... ANY IDEAS WHAT THIS MIGHT BE?? and does anyone know where a good step by step is of a transmission tear down/ rebuild?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsb0sblGRPw

Don't know how to embed the vid on here. but there's a link to a vid i took as the chain was moving. you can hear the knocking if you turn it UP!!!

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Last edited by Dozer; 03-28-2010 at 07:36 PM.
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 12:18 PM
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To me... that sounds like the chain hitting the chain slide on top the swingarm. That's just what I think the sound is.

To troubleshoot it. You need to isolate it. You're spinning the tire, chain and tranny. You need to get the chain off the front sprocket and just spin the tranny.

However... I'm pretty confident that is chain noise. The last part of the video... you spin it slow and it clunks... then you spin it faster and the clunk turns into normal chain noise.

To embed... put [you tube] then just... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsb0sblGRPw then [/you tube] make sure there are no spaces between youtube or anywhere.


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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Not Chain noise i know that for sure. I held my fingers under the chain as i spun it to make sure it wasn't the chain hitting anything. i did take the chain off the sprocket and spin it and there was no sound. only makes the sound when the sprocket is being pulled on by the chain. im thinking maybe i spun a bearing, and thats why it only makes that sound when there is pressure. its for sure not from the chain though.

ALSO i put my ear up and on the the clutch side of the bike and could its coming from inside.

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 06:04 PM
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Your chain could have a tight spot..does it make the noise when the chain is at a certain position?

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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 06:05 PM
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Whoops, just saw the video...That just sounds like the chain rollers hittin the sprocket to me.

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 06:53 PM Thread Starter
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well after messing with it for about an hour this morning i think i figured it out! The front drive sprocket is worn down a bit and the chain appears to be hitting the bottom of the sprocket, (not resting on the rollers of the chain but the chain it self) its actually carved little groves in the base of the sprocket. Causing the chain to not sit properly and it was slightly off to one side. and as it would spin around the sprocket it would snap back into place making that slight popping sound. Got the new sprocket on order now. And I'm going to go ahead and replace the rear while I'm at it. Thanks everyone for telling me it was the chain. HAHA In my mind i had completely ruled out the possibility of it being the chain made me reconsider the idea.

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozer View Post
well after messing with it for about an hour this morning i think i figured it out! The front drive sprocket is worn down a bit and the chain appears to be hitting the bottom of the sprocket, (not resting on the rollers of the chain but the chain it self) its actually carved little groves in the base of the sprocket. Causing the chain to not sit properly and it was slightly off to one side. and as it would spin around the sprocket it would snap back into place making that slight popping sound. Got the new sprocket on order now. And I'm going to go ahead and replace the rear while I'm at it. Thanks everyone for telling me it was the chain. HAHA In my mind i had completely ruled out the possibility of it being the chain made me reconsider the idea.

if your sprockets were worn that bad, your chain probably is to, suggest replacing chain and sprockets,all at the same time

if your chains damaged, it will wear down the new sprockets much quicker.


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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 07:00 PM
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^ +1 on that

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 07:12 PM
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If you chain is kinked or binding it makes that sound because of tight spot on the chain. It could also be the chain slack is adjust incorrectly. Putting to much stress on the front sprocket.

I had this issues twice. First time it was me adjusting the slick to tight.
The other time this happen to me was a binding chain. Which had to be replace.


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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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I'm doing the chain, front and rear sprockets. NO worries! anyone know what the torque setting is for the front sprocket bolt?

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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-30-2010, 08:58 AM
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impact a.k.a. cheater pipe tight

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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-30-2010, 10:09 AM
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Front sprocket bolt 54 Nm (40 lbf lbs)

Don't use an impact on the front sprocket bolt. Terrible for the tranny!!!

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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-16-2010, 07:31 AM
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I have a 2005 CBR600RR with 25500 miles on it. Cleaned and adjusted the chain today and now there's a clicking sound coming from my transmission. From what I see on here it could just be the front sprocket is worn. The chain has around 500 miles on it still new. When I put the bike in gear and move the wheel the wheel moves about an inch and a half and all the movement is coming from the front sprocket drive shaft, the cush drive and chain are tight within tolerance. It feels jerky when I'm ridding it, like there is a lot of slack some where. I'm going to change the sprockets and adjust the throttle slack. I've owned a few FI bikes and this one seams to jerk harder and have more slack in the drive train than the other bikes. I'm wondering if that one and a half to two inches of wheel play when the bike is in gear is normal. Does anyone else have the same amount of play?
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-17-2010, 11:08 AM
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Hey man, welcome to the forum. First off, the clicking you hear is the rollers hittin the sprocket. Second, it is generally best to replace the sprockets (front and back) and chain all at the same time because they all wear together. There should be minimal play in the tranny when its in gear. All the movement is coming from the cush drive and the chain.


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Originally Posted by nsmoothrider View Post
I have a 2005 CBR600RR with 25500 miles on it. Cleaned and adjusted the chain today and now there's a clicking sound coming from my transmission. From what I see on here it could just be the front sprocket is worn. The chain has around 500 miles on it still new. When I put the bike in gear and move the wheel the wheel moves about an inch and a half and all the movement is coming from the front sprocket drive shaft, the cush drive and chain are tight within tolerance. It feels jerky when I'm ridding it, like there is a lot of slack some where. I'm going to change the sprockets and adjust the throttle slack. I've owned a few FI bikes and this one seams to jerk harder and have more slack in the drive train than the other bikes. I'm wondering if that one and a half to two inches of wheel play when the bike is in gear is normal. Does anyone else have the same amount of play?

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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-17-2010, 03:42 PM
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First... cleaning your chain won't cause your transmission to start making a clicking sound. If it is making a clicking sound... it has done that before you cleaned your chain.

Next, chain slack is measured in the up and down free play in the chain. I'm sure with trig. that you can figure what 1 inch of freeplay slack = how much linear movement, then calculate the sprocket size and diameter of the tire to get a forward and backward number... but I don't want to do that. Every bike will roll while in gear.

Last, throttle cable slack adjustment wont help you either. You need to modify your riding. My technique is this... When I see an apex of a turn and know where I want to start accelerating out of that turn ( or really just start accelerating in general) I slowly start applying throttle before that point to get throttle slack out plus whatever percent of throttle to transition from engine braking to maybe a maintenance throttle that neither accelerates or decelerates... this gets slack out of the gears in the engine ( tranny plus the two other gears), chain and everything. then I roll on the throttle with NO jerking.

Everyone has their ways... that is just mine.

EDIT: more info... If you're talking about slow speed jerking like riding through a parking lot, I always use the clutch even while rolling. Every time I want to accelerate, I ease out the clutch like I'm starting from a stop.

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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-17-2010, 06:45 PM
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Yeah I know it's the front sprocket making the noise, thanks to this post and your replies. My main concern is the play in the drive shaft. The cush drive is fine and has no play, the chain has no play, well not more than they should have the cush drive hardly moves at all. But the drive shaft at the front sprocket has about 1 1/2 to 2 inches of free rotation at the rear wheel when the bike is in gear and the back wheel is off the ground. I've had this bike a year now and it seams to have gotten sloppier in the last few months. I'm just wondering if that's normal for the CBR600RR to have that kind of play in the drive shaft at the rear wheel when the bike is in gear and the wheel is off the ground. If nobody knows thats cool, but if some one knows or could check there bike out and see if it's the same that would be great. I'm new to this forum and I guess to troubleshooting my CBR600RR but I'm not new to motorcycles, it just seams like this bike has a lot of slop in it. Thank you for your replies.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 12:12 AM
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I just noticed the same scenario on mine as well; an 06 with just under 5k miles. I noticed a "chunking" sound and feeling and started doing some digging. I pulled the rear tire and chain off and found that the "slop" is in the drive shaft, not the sprocket, chain, or cush drive (I'd say the amount of play is pretty similar to your situation). I was hoping someone might have some ideas before I start yanking things apart trying to find it. I have limited faith in my local dealer (unfortunately the next closest is quite a distance away); they seem to make mistakes on the most mundane of services...so taking it to them and getting plowed isn't my first option. My first time seeing this situation as well, so I'm not even really sure where to start.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 02:27 AM
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I highly doubt that any of you have any excessive backlash in your countershaft. However, if you're going to pull your motor out and break it open... better get a manual. www.helminc.com

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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 05:16 AM
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I just noticed the same scenario on mine as well; an 06 with just under 5k miles. I noticed a "chunking" sound and feeling and started doing some digging. I pulled the rear tire and chain off and found that the "slop" is in the drive shaft, not the sprocket, chain, or cush drive (I'd say the amount of play is pretty similar to your situation). I was hoping someone might have some ideas before I start yanking things apart trying to find it. I have limited faith in my local dealer (unfortunately the next closest is quite a distance away); they seem to make mistakes on the most mundane of services...so taking it to them and getting plowed isn't my first option. My first time seeing this situation as well, so I'm not even really sure where to start.
Well unless you beat the heck out of your 06 I don't think you have a problem. I only thought my 05 might because I have 25000+ miles on it. The 05 and 06 CBR600RR are the same bike, really nothing was changed between those years, so I'm thinking it's just how they built them. There is no way I'm pulling the motor to find out, but if you find something out I'd sure like to know.
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 09:03 AM
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I've ordered a manual, but I'm not really looking to tear it down just for gits and shiggles.

Can anyone else tell us if you see that much movement in your rear tire with the bike in gear and the rear off the ground? I saw a write up for the 07 and one of the features that was mentioned was decreased lash, maybe this is typical.
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 01:16 PM
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I think my countershaft is a bent just a little bit...how easy is it to replace?

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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 01:18 PM
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Lol, woaah nm, seems like to have to split the tranny. Neeevvermind

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I think my countershaft is a bent just a little bit...how easy is it to replace?

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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 11:08 PM
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Countershafts don't bend, they break. If you think the shaft is bent cause the head of the sprocket bolt wobbles, that is normal.

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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 11:30 PM
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Thats exactly what it is.

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Originally Posted by dcope17 View Post
Countershafts don't bend, they break. If you think the shaft is bent cause the head of the sprocket bolt wobbles, that is normal.

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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2010, 11:51 PM
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yea, then your countershaft is ok. They drill and tap that hole before heat treating the shaft. They leave extra material on the outsides of the shaft and grind the diameters and splines after heat treat. That tapped hole running out is normal for their process.

here's the tranny backlash amount.

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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 01:06 AM
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Thanks man that looks like one tooth worth of movement I can check mine out now. Thank you very much. I think thats probably how much mine moves. I don't know why they designed it like that you figure that slapping around would cause undue ware but it's honda they seam to know what there doing most of the time. Now off to see if I have more movement than that.
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 08:29 PM
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I compared the amount of play in the counter shaft and it appears to be consistent with the video posted here, so that may not be linked to the issue as I originally thought. Here's the play by play...I'd appreciate any thoughts...

Bike on rear stand, idling in gear (rear tire spinning)...if I give it any gas then let off I notice a "chunk" sound, then as soon as I get the gas back on again I hear the same sound. Under normal circumstances I could write it off as a by-product of the rear tire not being under any rolling friction, but I notice the same sound/feeling when riding on the street if I get the bike moving in gear, pull the clutch all the way in and transition the throttle on/off/on (without releasing the clutch)...like blipping for a downshift, but without the shift.

I'm no mechanic, but I've been doing basic maintenance on my cars and bikes since I was old enough to ride/drive. This one is outside my comfort zone, so I'm open to any and all advice.
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 09:31 PM
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Sounds to me like a normal noise all my bikes have made when when your burping the throttle at really low power or turning the bike on and off when it's moving. Or it's just the lash in that front sprocket witch is obviously known to be normal now. If you took video of what your talking about it would be easier to understand what your talking about. But from how you describe it, it sounds totally normal.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 01:02 AM
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This is my last post in this thread cause I believe that there is nothing wrong with your bike. The noise you hear while reving your throttle is normal also. These bikes have a wet clutch. You know, the clutch is on oil. For that to work... there are several clutch plates and discs to create enough clutch surface area to grab even thought it is in oil. because of the oil between that plates and discs, the clutch never fully disengages, so there is always some motor input going through the clutch and into the tranny. So while rolling, the granny and chain is in an engine breaking position. Meaning mote tension on the bottom half of the chain and the like in the granny. When you rev the motor, some of it gets through the clutch and changes the granny gears from the coast side of the teeth to the drive side and the same to the chain.

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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 01:05 AM
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Stupid phone changed evey tranny to granny. Sorry

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