I'm stumped. Loss of power, acceleration is jumpy - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2010, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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I'm stumped. Loss of power, acceleration is jumpy (SOLVED, IGNITION COIL WIRE CUT)

A quick overview of what I've done to my bike this past month. I did an engine swap because the old one had scored cylinder walls and pistons. Put the new engine in, and it started right up.

I took it for a 2 hour test ride, and it ran great. Upon test riding it, there were only a few issues (fuel gauge at the time wasn't working, but that's because it wasn't plugged in all the way). Anyway, on my way back home I filled the tank up (because I had no idea how much fuel I had), then about 5 minutes from my house my bike started this sputter sound. I thought I had felt a loss of power, but wasn't sure yet. The next morning I had test rode it to see what the problem was, and surely enough there was a definite loss of power while it sounded abnormal. I originally thought it was bad gas, so I siphoned the fuel out of my tank and put some good Shell gasoline in it. Didn't fix the problem.

I eventually noticed, that I had hooked up my hoses on my tank wrong. The other half of the air vent hose I hooked into the overflow hose, and the little end of the air vent hose was just hanging there. I fixed that, and that didn't fix the problem. This was the weird part though. Before I even noticed that those hoses were messed up, I was messing with my bike the day I realized the power loss, pulled the tank up and started it to see if that did anything, and during idle the bike didn't sound abnormal. This is what's weird is that, I was almost positive it had something to do with those hoses because when I removed the hoses the sound went away during idle. The thing is, the sound and power struggle doesn't happen when the bike first starts up. Once I take it out, it starts struggling.

I went back and looked over the wires a little bit, checked the fuel flow rate per the Honda manual, and found out something weird about it. Per the manual, is says to jump the fuel relay, disconnect the hose, and turn the ignition for 10 seconds. After 10 seconds of fuel flow I should get 6.8oz (Not sure on the exact number, but around that ball park). After about 8-10 seconds, I had well over 9oz. I was actually letting the fuel flow into a Camelbak bottle because I didn't have a graduated cylinder, but the measurements went from 8oz to 16oz. The amount of fuel after 8-10 seconds was in between the two. The thing about that is, even if I'm getting more than 12v to the fuel pump, I don't see why the bike would react the way it is.

Anyway, after all that I put Sea Foam in the tank, and the problem still exists. Let me stress, this happens EVERY time I ride. It happens EVERY time I accelerate through all gears. I can't really tell you which RPM it happens because it's kind of random. The bike will sometimes start off then the power loss will come and go and come and go like it's starting to kick off like normal, but in the end it's fucked up. I'm so sick of working on this ******* bike. I'm seriously about to lose my mind. I haven't ridden all ******* summer long because I've been working on this bullshit engine, and this bullshit problem. I got home from overseas a few months ago and all I wanted to do was ride all ******* summer, but I've done nothing but pour money into this ******* bike, and now it's doing this bullshit..... In total I've probably spent about 2K on this thing since I've been home.

Here are some videos of what's been going on. Turn your volume up.







Also, I hear a lot of pops from my exhaust.

Here is what I currently have on my bike.

2004 600rr
Leo Vince full system with stainless steel header and carbon fiber muffler
I'm currently running stock air filter.

I used to have a BMC race air filter, but went back to stock because I came to believe that race filter is what allowed sand and **** to get into my engine causing all the scoring along the cylinder walls.

I originally had a PC3 installed, with a custom tune, but haven't installed it yet because I'm waiting to fully test out the bike and work all the kinks out until I install it and get it retuned.

UPDATE

Thanks to those who motivated me to look at the ignition coils because that's exactly where I found the problem. The problem wasn't with the ignition coils itself, but one of the wires connecting to the ignition coils got chopped up by my radiator fan.



I crimped it as a temporary fix, and it runs great now. I plan on eventually replacing that portion of the wire harness.

Last edited by Flood; 08-28-2010 at 11:10 PM.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-24-2010, 09:50 PM
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There's not a kink somewhere in the main fuel pressure line, is there?? My old roomate had that happen on his Triumph and he chased his tail for awhile before figuring out that every time he set the tank down it would kink the line because of the way it was routed.

Other than that... fuel pressure regulator? Vacuum hose connected? All other vacuum hoses? MAP sensor hose? Any smoke coming out on accel? FI light? Did you check the actual fuel pressure?? Fuel volume (flow) and pressure are two completely different things

-Jared

Black/Red '04 CBR 600 F4i - 304,500 miles and still kicking
Black '89 Accord LX-i sedan - 438,700 miles still running strong

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-25-2010, 07:45 AM
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I don't know if its just the audio but it almost sounds as if its missing on one cylinder, if you get a laser thermometer (should be able to borrow one from somewhere, supermarket?) and measure the header pipe temps, the one that is missing will be cooler.

Then you just need to work out what the issue its with that cylinder, but given the fact that your getting popping in the exhaust I would hazard a guess at it being an ignition problem, either with the ecu or the coil.

Swap the coils between the cold cylinder and a hot one, let the bike cool, start her up again and recheck the temps, if the problem moves its the coil if it doesn't then perhaps ecu.

I would check the coil first cause you said it runs fine on start-up then once warm starts having issues, once a coil warms up its windings will expand causing an open circuit to appear, once it cools back down the gap closes and the problem goes away.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-25-2010, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
I don't know if its just the audio but it almost sounds as if its missing on one cylinder, if you get a laser thermometer (should be able to borrow one from somewhere, supermarket?) and measure the header pipe temps, the one that is missing will be cooler.

Then you just need to work out what the issue its with that cylinder, but given the fact that your getting popping in the exhaust I would hazard a guess at it being an ignition problem, either with the ecu or the coil.

Swap the coils between the cold cylinder and a hot one, let the bike cool, start her up again and recheck the temps, if the problem moves its the coil if it doesn't then perhaps ecu.

I would check the coil first cause you said it runs fine on start-up then once warm starts having issues, once a coil warms up its windings will expand causing an open circuit to appear, once it cools back down the gap closes and the problem goes away.
The audio might sound a little too vibrated, but that's because the camera was sitting on the handlebars. Regardless, the bike pretty much sounds like that.

Anyway, I do have two sets of spark plugs and two sets of ignition coils. Should I try swapping them out? From what I've been told by my dad and by Demented, is that it couldn't be anything to do with the spark plugs. My dad did mention though, that he thought it wasn't firing right. The current plugs and coils I have on it, are the ones that came with the engine.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-25-2010, 03:35 PM
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i would try putting the power comander on since u got a full system it can affect your power delivery in a bad way without proper tuning
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 04:25 AM
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^^ stock air filter should take care of that to a point...

Give a go at swapping out the coils, especially if you already have some spares cause it cant hurt and wont cost anything!

If you can get your hands on a thermometer to measure the header temps you will know which one to look at.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-28-2010, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks to those who motivated me to look at the ignition coils because that's exactly where I found the problem. The problem wasn't with the ignition coils itself, but one of the wires connecting to the ignition coils got chopped up by my radiator fan.



I crimped it as a temporary fix, and it runs great now. I plan on eventually replacing that portion of the wire harness.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-28-2010, 11:40 PM
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Awesome... glad to hear you got it all figured out and it was something simple!

Not sure if it would do you any good or not cuz I'm not sure if they're the same, but I believe I've got an extra wiring sub harness for the coils but it's for an F4i... if you want it to see if it works you're welcome to it

-Jared

Black/Red '04 CBR 600 F4i - 304,500 miles and still kicking
Black '89 Accord LX-i sedan - 438,700 miles still running strong

States visited on my F4i


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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 04:18 AM
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Good to see you got it sorted.
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