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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 02:39 AM Thread Starter
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2nd gear problems

Sometimes (more often than not) when I try to shift into 2nd gear, it doesnt go in, and I hear the horrible sound of rapid clunking/grinding, and my shifter bounces off my foot. This usually happens at high RPMs. Are we looking at having to crack the engine case and replace the gear?

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[QUOTE=gee;3084049]and women say they can multi task....
i can do 4 things at once badly too, i just prefer to do one thing well......like drive..............[/QUOTE]
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010Octane View Post
Sometimes (more often than not) when I try to shift into 2nd gear, it doesnt go in, and I hear the horrible sound of rapid clunking/grinding, and my shifter bounces off my foot. This usually happens at high RPMs. Are we looking at having to crack the engine case and replace the gear?
or get a stronger leg to make sure it gets into gear, sounds like a normal mis shift to me.


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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 02:57 AM
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www.msf-usa.org. They'll help you learn how to properly shift into gears on a motorcycle, on a bike that isn't yours and with no worry of FUBARing your transmission or bending the **** outa your shifter forks.

But, that's common when you don't shift into gear properly. Incorrect engine revs for the gear you're trying to get into. All a part of learning how to ride a bike. Your owners manual has a nice sheet where the recommend when to shift into the next gear, so this type of thing doesn't happen. You'll find it on page 55 and 56.

Last edited by Demented; 09-12-2010 at 03:00 AM.
 
post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 03:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenjin View Post
or get a stronger leg to make sure it gets into gear, sounds like a normal mis shift to me.
I hope your right, but I'm not so sure. Only time this happens shifting up to 2nd gear at high rpms, I'd say 9-10k+.

When it does happen, I roll off the throttle because the rpm's are bouncing at 15k, and I shift again disengaging the clutch, and when it does go in, its hard "clunk"...

I'm not sure if it happens if I upshift without disengaging the clutch. I might go try that in a bit.

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[QUOTE=gee;3084049]and women say they can multi task....
i can do 4 things at once badly too, i just prefer to do one thing well......like drive..............[/QUOTE]
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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 03:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demented View Post
www.msf-usa.org. They'll help you learn how to properly shift into gears on a motorcycle, on a bike that isn't yours and with no worry of FUBARing your transmission or bending the **** outa your shifter forks.

But, that's common when you don't shift into gear properly. Incorrect engine revs for the gear you're trying to get into. All a part of learning how to ride a bike. Your owners manual has a nice sheet where the recommend when to shift into the next gear, so this type of thing doesn't happen. You'll find it on page 55 and 56.
Thanks **** head. I've taken the msf basic, and advanced, now unless you have something to contribute, stop flaming *******!

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[QUOTE=gee;3084049]and women say they can multi task....
i can do 4 things at once badly too, i just prefer to do one thing well......like drive..............[/QUOTE]
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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 03:09 AM
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Thanks **** head. I've taken the msf basic, and advanced, now unless you have something to contribute, stop flaming *******!
just to point something out

he basically said what i did, he actually gave you more usefull information than i did ...

this makes me laugh...


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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 03:10 AM
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Thanks **** head. I've taken the msf basic, and advanced, now unless you have something to contribute, stop flaming *******!
Oh, I'm so sorry to have attempted to help you.

The post below is a clear indication of why you need to take, or retake both the BRC and ERC courses, as you clearly do not know how to ride a motorcycle, let alone shift.

Please accept my sincerest apologies for attempting to let you know that what you are experiencing is normal when you do not shift into gear properly, and I apologize for telling you where you can find out when you should be shifting into the next gear, per the people who designed the transmission you are set out to destroy with your riding skills, or lack there of.
Quote:
I hope your right, but I'm not so sure. Only time this happens shifting up to 2nd gear at high rpms, I'd say 9-10k+.

When it does happen, I roll off the throttle because the rpm's are bouncing at 15k, and I shift again disengaging the clutch, and when it does go in, its hard "clunk"...

I'm not sure if it happens if I upshift without disengaging the clutch. I might go try that in a bit.

Last edited by Demented; 09-12-2010 at 03:15 AM.
post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Demented View Post
Oh, I'm so sorry to have attempted to help you.

The post below is a clear indication of why you need to take, or retake both the BRC and ERC courses, as you clearly do not know how to ride a motorcycle, let alone shift.

Please accept my sincerest apologies for attempting to let you know that what you are experiencing is normal when you do not shift into gear properly, and I apologize for telling you where you can find out when you should be shifting into the next gear, per the people who designed the transmission you are set out to destroy with your riding skills, or lack there of.
is it bad that i cant stop laughing at this?


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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 03:21 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Demented View Post
Oh, I'm so sorry to have attempted to help you.

The post below is a clear indication of why you need to take, or retake both the BRC and ERC courses, as you clearly do not know how to ride a motorcycle, let alone shift.

Please accept my sincerest apologies for attempting to let you know that what you are experiencing is normal when you do not shift into gear properly, and I apologize for telling you where you can find out when you should be shifting into the next gear, per the people who designed the transmission you are set out to destroy with your riding skills, or lack there of.

Its ok a%ssH*le, tenjin was much more diplomatic about it, and much less condescending. I do not discount rider error, but I'm looking for responses like tenjin provided, and anyone else who has something to say without being a fvk!ng pr!ck fvk like you.

Now GET THE FVK OUT OF THIS THREAD YOU FVKER!

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[QUOTE=gee;3084049]and women say they can multi task....
i can do 4 things at once badly too, i just prefer to do one thing well......like drive..............[/QUOTE]
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 03:28 AM
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Its ok a%ssH*le, tenjin was much more diplomatic about it, and much less condescending. I do not discount rider error, but I'm looking for responses like tenjin provided, and anyone else who has something to say without being a fvk!ng pr!ck fvk like you.

Now GET THE FVK OUT OF THIS THREAD YOU FVKER!
As I said, I apologize for attempting to help you. How was I to know that you just hate anything I post, regardless if it's me trying to help you with a problem or not.

You don't have to get your panties in a bunch and start flaming over pointless ****. Suck it up, be a man, and take my advice with a grain of salt (or an entire carton of Morton).

Again, I apologize. In no way was I attempting to be condescending to you, as I decided I'd brave the storm and remove you from my ignore list to not only find out what your problem was, but to also help you.
But if you wish to be a condescending prick about everything, This message is hidden because 2010Octane is on your ignore list.
post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 03:34 AM
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As I said, I apologize for attempting to help you. How was I to know that you just hate anything I post, regardless if it's me trying to help you with a problem or not.

You don't have to get your panties in a bunch and start flaming over pointless ****. Suck it up, be a man, and take my advice with a grain of salt (or an entire carton of Morton).

Again, I apologize. In no way was I attempting to be condescending to you, as I decided I'd brave the storm and remove you from my ignore list to not only find out what your problem was, but to also help you.
But if you wish to be a condescending prick about everything, This message is hidden because 2010Octane is on your ignore list.

STOP RIGHT THERE!


who the fvck is this? demented is never nice, hes a total prick, you friggen impostor.


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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tenjin View Post
STOP RIGHT THERE!


who the fvck is this? demented is never nice, hes a total prick, you friggen impostor.
^^^



Just sounds like you need to shift with a little more gusto mate, either that or you may have an issue with your shift forks (its better if its the first one)
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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 05:31 AM
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proper chain tension will help with the way your bike shifts.
Do what you will with that; I'm thinking it's a part of the problem.
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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 06:51 AM
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i've never miss shifted on my 04' 600rr, the gearbox just takes what i give it, on the other hand my old 250rr used to do this frequently. you'd have to be quite direct and firm with the lever otherwise it'd spit it back out first to second. Was rather frustrating.

So yeah, I'd say something is not right with your box.
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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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^^^



Just sounds like you need to shift with a little more gusto mate, either that or you may have an issue with your shift forks (its better if its the first one)
Yeah, I'm thinking its just me. Only happened once today out of maybe a dozen times. I dont think I'm putting enough force on the shifter (seems to take more to get to 2nd than any other gear .. yeah yeah, gotta pass neutral i know, but still).

Let me ask this though. Why after it happens, does it "CLUNK!" into 2nd when I shift again? I'm very aware of my actions after a "misshift", and I'm definately applying more than enough pressure, and clutch is fully disengaged, and rpm's are rev matched.... If I blip my throttle it seems to help shift smoother...

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[QUOTE=gee;3084049]and women say they can multi task....
i can do 4 things at once badly too, i just prefer to do one thing well......like drive..............[/QUOTE]

Last edited by 2010Octane; 09-12-2010 at 05:39 PM.
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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 05:48 PM
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Yeah, I'm thinking its just me. Only happened once today out of maybe a dozen times. I dont think I'm putting enough force on the shifter (seems to take more to get to 2nd than any other gear .. yeah yeah, gotta pass neutral i know, but still).

Let me ask this though. Why after it happens, does it "CLUNK!" into 2nd when I shift again? I'm very aware of my actions after a "misshift", and I'm definately applying more than enough pressure, and clutch is fully disengaged, and rpm's are rev matched.... If I blip my throttle it seems to help shift smoother...
the clunk, as far as i know, is because things are out of alignment as they were aligned to go into second, and it didnt make it and then **** got pissed / out of alignment.


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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 05:55 PM
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If the RPM's are rev matched, you wouldn't be having that problem. You said yourself, you're going from bouncing off the rev limiter, to slowing 6,000-5,000RPM before shifting. Your rear wheel will be wanting to spin the transmission faster than what the engine wants to do. That in no way is rev matched.

You're basically trying to shift into a gear that wants to spin the output shaft faster, as your letting the output shaft slow down. That's where the grinding and clunking is coming from.
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If the RPM's are rev matched, you wouldn't be having that problem. You said yourself, you're going from bouncing off the rev limiter, to slowing 6,000-5,000RPM before shifting. Your rear wheel will be wanting to spin the transmission faster than what the engine wants to do. That in no way is rev matched.

You're basically trying to shift into a gear that wants to spin the output shaft faster, as your letting the output shaft slow down. That's where the grinding and clunking is coming from.
Very well might be the case, but I'm not instantly trying to shift again... What I basically said was a mis-shift would occur around 9k+. I would pinch a loaf while my rpm's are bouncing at 15k. I'd clutch in, let my rpms drop back down, and coast. During this time I'm losing speed. I then ramp up my rpm's to what I feel they should be for the speed I'm going.

What kind of deviation from a perfect rev match would cause this to happen?

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[QUOTE=gee;3084049]and women say they can multi task....
i can do 4 things at once badly too, i just prefer to do one thing well......like drive..............[/QUOTE]
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 06:04 PM
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Very well might be the case, but I'm not instantly trying to shift again... What I basically said was a mis-shift would occur around 9k+. I would pinch a loaf while my rpm's are bouncing at 15k. I'd clutch in, let my rpms drop back down, and coast. During this time I'm losing speed. I then ramp up my rpm's to what I feel they should be for the speed I'm going.

What kind of deviation from a perfect rev match would cause this to happen?

if you were at 9k, reved to 15k, slowed revs back down and say were @ 6k, your way off, 8kish id bet is where you would want to be for example.


pure guess here.


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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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the clunk, as far as i know, is because things are out of alignment as they were aligned to go into second, and it didnt make it and then **** got pissed / out of alignment.
I'm thinking your right, but why would blipping the throttle when shifting help?

Note: No i'm not dropping the clutch on my 2nd, and sometimes even 3rd attempt.

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[QUOTE=gee;3084049]and women say they can multi task....
i can do 4 things at once badly too, i just prefer to do one thing well......like drive..............[/QUOTE]
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 06:06 PM
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Make sure you adjust the shift lever so that it's just a small movement of your foot to make the shift happen. I recently got new boots that are not as bulky as my old ones and was missing shifts because there was more foot movement required then I was used to. While your at it make sure everthing else on the bike is adjusted to fit you.
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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if you were at 9k, reved to 15k, slowed revs back down and say were @ 6k, your way off, 8kish id bet is where you would want to be for example.


pure guess here.
Understand of course the numbers I provided post rev limit were just an estimate... Let me ask this... If I rev HIGHER than my speed, and not LOWER, while slowly engaging the clutch, would that resolve the issue?

Better yet.... How do you recover from a mis-shift?

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[QUOTE=gee;3084049]and women say they can multi task....
i can do 4 things at once badly too, i just prefer to do one thing well......like drive..............[/QUOTE]
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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 06:09 PM
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Understand of course the numbers I provided post rev limit were just an estimate... Let me ask this... If I rev HIGHER than my speed, and not LOWER, while slowly engaging the clutch, would that resolve the issue?

Better yet.... How do you recover from a mis-shift?
id wager yessir


but the goal should be to shift with enough force to not have to worry about this at all.


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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 06:12 PM
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Very well might be the case, but I'm not instantly trying to shift again... What I basically said was a mis-shift would occur around 9k+. I would pinch a loaf while my rpm's are bouncing at 15k. I'd clutch in, let my rpms drop back down, and coast. During this time I'm losing speed. I then ramp up my rpm's to what I feel they should be for the speed I'm going.

What kind of deviation from a perfect rev match would cause this to happen?
I'm sorry, but you've gotta be pulling a joke here with that one...right?

I'm literally at a loss for words here. If there's anything that one should not do when shifting gears, is to coast at high speeds, slowing down with the clutch disengaged, and then without letting the input and output shafts speed up to the same speed, attempting to shift. I know you think you're getting the RPM's matched, but you'll be far from it, unless you're shaving off about 30-35mph before blipping the throttle to 9,000-10,000RPM and shifting.
post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 06:14 PM
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Understand of course the numbers I provided post rev limit were just an estimate... Let me ask this... If I rev HIGHER than my speed, and not LOWER, while slowly engaging the clutch, would that resolve the issue?

Better yet.... How do you recover from a mis-shift?
Yes. Shifting typically works best in this type of transmission when the input shaft is spinning at the same speed or faster than the primary shaft.
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So in a nutshell, make sure you apply more force when shifting to 2nd than any other gear, and if you do mis-shift, make sure you are at or above the rev's necessary to match your speed for the gear you are trying to shift to.

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[QUOTE=gee;3084049]and women say they can multi task....
i can do 4 things at once badly too, i just prefer to do one thing well......like drive..............[/QUOTE]
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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 06:54 PM
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Make sure you're rev matched before attempting to even shift. Trying to force it in when you're not, is when things, like the gear dogs or the shifter forks can be damaged.
post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 02:25 AM
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You have to look at the drive train as three components separated at two points...

something like this:



You can control the speed of the engine (at least I hope so)

You can control the speed of the output shaft (by varying road speed)

When you mis-shift into neutral with the clutch in you have disconnected the gearbox shaft from both the output shaft and engine and no longer have control over it's speed.

The clunk your hearing when you shift into gear with the clutch in is the gearbox shaft matching the speed of the output shaft, matching RPM perfectly will do no good in this instance. You will still get a clunk.

To avoid the clunk you have to leave it in neutral, let the clutch out (slowly) to get the gearbox shaft to the correct speed then once rpm is matched to road speed pull the clutch in and quickly shift into gear, then let the clutch back out.

Either that or clutch in and in neutral until your stationary and start again...

The reason bliping the throttle helps is that there is still a small amount of force transmitted through the clutch even though you have it pulled in (similar principle of operation to an auto gearbox's torque converter), the engine will be going considerably faster than the gearbox shaft but the gearbox shaft will nevertheless speed up a little, causing its speed to approach the speed of the output shaft resulting in a smaller clunk.

Does that clear it up a little?

Last edited by Nico; 06-20-2011 at 05:44 AM.
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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 06:23 AM
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BTW, this ^^ is also why you get a very light clunk when you shift into first when your stationary, the gearbox shaft is spinning slowly with the clutch in, when you put it into first it comes to a sudden stop as it engages with the output shaft and makes a small clunk.
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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
BTW, this ^^ is also why you get a very light clunk when you shift into first when your stationary, the gearbox shaft is spinning slowly with the clutch in, when you put it into first it comes to a sudden stop as it engages with the output shaft and makes a small clunk.
Nico,

Thank you Sir! Your response was intelligent, unflamatory, and educational.

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i can do 4 things at once badly too, i just prefer to do one thing well......like drive..............[/QUOTE]
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