Left it sitting for a week in my cold garage, now she won't start :/ - 600RR.net
Troubleshooting Having trouble with your bike? Common know issues or trobuleshooting questions here.

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post #1 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Left it sitting for a week in my cold garage, now she won't start :/

Well my bike won't start :/. I left her sitting in my garage for a week(it was 10-25degrees all week).... went to ride her yesterday and she wouldn't turn on. Lights/gauges are all working perfectly when I turn the key, and it sounds like it's about to start... but it just won't. Tried push starting and then jumping it... neither worked so I'm assuming it's not the battery. Could it be possible the fuel line or something is frozen from the cold weather? It ran perfectly a week ago. Supposed to get up to 38 today so I'd love to figure this issue out and go riding.
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post #2 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 09:00 AM
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It's just a completely dead battery. END THREAD lol

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post #3 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 09:09 AM
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You can jump it from a car battery if the car is not running, or you can go out and get a Battery Tender Jr and hook it up to re-charge it.
Even if the battery is toast you will have the Tender for the winter. It is a good idea to have it hooked up anytime you will not be riding or the temperature is going to be low for an extended period.

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post #4 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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It's just a completely dead battery. END THREAD lol
That's what I figured, but I tried jumping it with my car while turned off... and also tried doing a push start. Neither worked.
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Originally Posted by MikeyP View Post
You can jump it from a car battery if the car is not running, or you can go out and get a Battery Tender Jr and hook it up to re-charge it.
Even if the battery is toast you will have the Tender for the winter. It is a good idea to have it hooked up anytime you will not be riding or the temperature is going to be low for an extended period.
Thanks man, I actually tried to jump it with my car while it wasn't running, but that didn't work. I'll definitely get a battery tender for here on out. Now to just figure out why it won't run :/ I also think it has to be the battery, but I don't get why jumping it or push starting it didn't work. blahhh
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post #5 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 10:40 AM
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Do you smell gasoline at the exhaust? You may have flooded the engine during your starting attempts. Try jumping it from a car battery again, but this time hold the throttle wide open while you crank it for 10 or 15 seconds. This might clear out the excess gas and allow it to start.
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Originally Posted by checksix View Post
Do you smell gasoline at the exhaust? You may have flooded the engine during your starting attempts. Try jumping it from a car battery again, but this time hold the throttle wide open while you crank it for 10 or 15 seconds. This might clear out the excess gas and allow it to start.
Thanks alot man, I actually did smell gasoline towards the end of trying yesterday. I just did as you suggested, took like 45 seconds with throttle but it started up. Thanks alot for the help guys!
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post #7 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 09:35 PM
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Alot of these issues could be solved if people were to go out and purchase a 30 dollar multimeter and see if youre getting 12.5v -12.7v out of the battery. Or to test continuity and fuses.

ive got this battery tender from harbor freight, 10 bucks and it works great.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automat...ger-42292.html

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Originally Posted by ifiexplode View Post
Alot of these issues could be solved if people were to go out and purchase a 30 dollar multimeter and see if youre getting 12.5v -12.7v out of the battery. Or to test continuity and fuses.

ive got this battery tender from harbor freight, 10 bucks and it works great.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automat...ger-42292.html
Awesome, just ordered one. Thanks man. And yea, I'll admit I wasn't prepared to leave it sitting for a week. I'm heading down to Oklahoma in the first of January so I didn't winterize it. I actually go to school in the south so I can ride the bike and drive my TT'd 350z all year long. Haha
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post #9 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 10:51 PM
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why does everyone say not to run the car while jumping the bike....I just don't get it. Make sure you don't use your run switch to turn off the bike, even though it's the same circuit as the ignition key

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post #10 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 11:11 PM
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Your car battery is 12.6 volts, but when the vehicle is running it jumps to 14.4 because the alternator is charging the car and running the accessories. This is too much voltage for the motorcycle battery.
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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doofiep007 View Post
why does everyone say not to run the car while jumping the bike....I just don't get it. Make sure you don't use your run switch to turn off the bike, even though it's the same circuit as the ignition key
Actually make sure you DO. Its a great habbit to get into, using your thumb to kill the bike then turning the key off. Any excuse of I always forget and I leave my key on or forget to turn the switch back to RUN is a lousy excuse for being lazy. Its some things like this that should become second nature so if you would need to quickly kill the bike, you don't have to remove either hand from the grips.

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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-19-2010, 11:22 PM
 
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Have jumped my bike with my diesel truck on and off. Never had a problem.




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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by murphdog1411 View Post
Actually make sure you DO. Its a great habbit to get into, using your thumb to kill the bike then turning the key off. Any excuse of I always forget and I leave my key on or forget to turn the switch back to RUN is a lousy excuse for being lazy. Its some things like this that should become second nature so if you would need to quickly kill the bike, you don't have to remove either hand from the grips.
The reason you don't want to use the kill switch is because on these bikes the switch is a piece of rubbish that is prone to failure. Don't use it and there is no arcing across the contacts and it doesn't get the chance to wear out.
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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattieg View Post
Your car battery is 12.6 volts, but when the vehicle is running it jumps to 14.4 because the alternator is charging the car and running the accessories. This is too much voltage for the motorcycle battery.
No offence but your wrong... right idea wrong reason.

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why does everyone say not to run the car while jumping the bike....I just don't get it. Make sure you don't use your run switch to turn off the bike, even though it's the same circuit as the ignition key
The reason is simple, even though a cars electrical system is very similar to a bikes and the voltages are the same (13.2V no load battery and 14.4V charging) the current capacities are wildly different.

A bikes battery is rated at anywhere from 80CCA to 140CCA, a cars battery could be anywhere between 150CCA and 600CCA. Trucks can be anywhere up to 2000CCA.

This is what causes the issues, the starter motor pulls a certain amount of current from the battery and as a result there is a certain voltage drop across the wiring and the output voltage of the battery will drop a little as well. The starter motor is designed to work with this occurring and spin at the correct RPM. So when you add up all the losses in a system that is operating correctly you will find that the starter only gets ~9V - 10V while cranking.

When you throw a car battery in the mix and crank the bike over you have voltage losses across the jumper cables and in particular the clips where they attach, with the car off and floating at around 12V this is enough to bring the voltage down to a respectable level for the starter motor and no damage will occur.

If the car is running you have a 150+CCA battery and a 100Amp alternator operating at 14.4V the current potential in the system is so high that the load of a bikes starter motor is no where near enough to drag it down and even once you add in the losses from the jumper cables and what not you still get around 12V at the starter motor, which will make it turn over to fast and put to much current through it.

By placing to much current through the starter motor you risk damaging the windings and more likely the brushes.

Hope that helps Doof, and Mattieg now you see that its not the battery you should be worried about cause even at 14.4V it's still well within its normal operating parameters, its the starter motor.
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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 11:05 AM
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with that said the starter can only "pull" what it can "take". I can't count how many times I've jumped my battery from my truck with 2 deep cycle 980cca. Still have the stock 03 starter. So make sure to keep a dead battery in the bike so you don't hurt your starter? We have seen bikes (R6) running almost 15 volts while running...The starter is the least of concern.

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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by doofiep007 View Post
with that said the starter can only "pull" what it can "take". I can't count how many times I've jumped my battery from my truck with 2 deep cycle 980cca. Still have the stock 03 starter. So make sure to keep a dead battery in the bike so you don't hurt your starter? We have seen bikes (R6) running almost 15 volts while running...The starter is the least of concern.
The starter is all your concerned about when jumping the bike, and yes even though the starter will only draw the amount of current that is proportional to its resistance and the applied voltage. The issue is when the applied voltage increases so does the current in the starter.

When starting of the bikes battery you can only draw a relatively small amount before its output voltage starts dropping, when connected to a running car there is no drop and the applied voltage at the starter motor increases thereby increasing the current it draws ( I = V/R).

Also, this is only relevant while you have the start button pushed... paralleling a running car to a bike whether running or not is no issue, just starting it is.
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post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 11:43 AM
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Good to know about jumping with the truck off. I had jump my bike twice this past weekend and did it with the truck on. Hope I didn't cause any damage.

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Good to know about jumping with the truck off. I had jump my bike twice this past weekend and did it with the truck on. Hope I didn't cause any damage.
Not likely to cause damage when you only do it once or twice, its when you do it repeatedly or leave the starter turning for an extended period (20 seconds or so) that you will run into trouble
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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 12:29 PM
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The reason you don't want to use the kill switch is because on these bikes the switch is a piece of rubbish that is prone to failure. Don't use it and there is no arcing across the contacts and it doesn't get the chance to wear out.

hmm thats odd, i've got 38k miles on my rr and have used it from day one with not one issue. I just see it as something you should know to use quickly and effecicently just like brakes or anything else the bike is equipped with. If something wears out from use, replace it. Its like saying i'm not going to use my High/Low switch b/c when it wears out I don't want to replace it.

I'm sure there are switches out there that are bunk and there are hundreds of things that play a role in why they wear out prematurely; weather, moisture, how the bike is maintained etc. I just have not had any runins with anyone I ride with having an issue with one (3 RRs and some other bikes).

Anyhow, use it or not. Everyone has an opinion and a perception, and is entitled to it.

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Not likely to cause damage when you only do it once or twice, its when you do it repeatedly or leave the starter turning for an extended period (20 seconds or so) that you will run into trouble
I don't want to start a pissing match but do you have any data on the starter? Or just a guess that it can't handle 14vdc...just trying to stop internet myth monsters.

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I think another reason it's risky to run the car engine when jump starting a bike is that the extra voltage applied to the bike's dead battery is also trying to push current backwards into the regulator/rectifier electronics, whereas the current normally flows the other way (ie. from r/r to battery). The diodes in the r/r can be damaged by too much reverse voltage. Disclaimer: I'm not an electrical engineer.
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I think another reason it's risky to run the car engine when jump starting a bike is that the extra voltage applied to the bike's dead battery is also trying to push current backwards into the regulator/rectifier electronics, whereas the current normally flows the other way (ie. from r/r to battery). The diodes in the r/r can be damaged by too much reverse voltage. Disclaimer: I'm not an electrical engineer.
then what does a tender/charger do? Magic? It doesn't "ramp" up the voltage from 0 to 12volts. Until there are specs on the starter to prove otherewise there is no proof 14 volts is too much for the starter to handle. The proof as it sits now is many including my 03 and 04 bikes have been jumped many times from many different cars/mowers many,many times and have never replaced the starter in either bike. I would love to see specs on the starter....I would have a hard time believing honda would spec a motor so tight that it couldn't hold an extra 1.5 volts.

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I think another reason it's risky to run the car engine when jump starting a bike is that the extra voltage applied to the bike's dead battery is also trying to push current backwards into the regulator/rectifier electronics, whereas the current normally flows the other way (ie. from r/r to battery). The diodes in the r/r can be damaged by too much reverse voltage. Disclaimer: I'm not an electrical engineer.
The diodes can typically handle in excess of 100V...
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I don't want to start a pissing match but do you have any data on the starter? Or just a guess that it can't handle 14vdc...just trying to stop internet myth monsters.
It's all good mate.

Nothing written down on a data sheet, just personal experience and an in depth knowledge of how they work.

But didn't T's starter take a dump...

If you start operating them out of where they would normally sit you will run into trouble, Honda engineers designed them to work in a particular system with a particular supply, when you change the power supply you are no longer operating the way Honda expected...
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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 05:30 PM
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Thanks for helping out on the forum, it's nice to have an intelligent conversation without someone butting in with copy/paste google know-it-all nonsense


T's bought the bike from some tard that "raced" it....I mean reved the engine while hitting the start button. So not sure how it's been treated, and that's why the motor has been rebuilt along with the old starter going back on the motor.

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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 06:02 PM
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then what does a tender/charger do?
A tender is used with the ignition turned off. No current flows to the r/r.

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The diodes can typically handle in excess of 100V...
Spikes and transients, yes. Sustained, no - they will eventually blow due to the heat generated by the reverse current flowing through them.
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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 06:10 PM
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No offence but your wrong... right idea wrong reason.



The reason is simple, even though a cars electrical system is very similar to a bikes and the voltages are the same (13.2V no load battery and 14.4V charging) the current capacities are wildly different.

A bikes battery is rated at anywhere from 80CCA to 140CCA, a cars battery could be anywhere between 150CCA and 600CCA. Trucks can be anywhere up to 2000CCA.

This is what causes the issues, the starter motor pulls a certain amount of current from the battery and as a result there is a certain voltage drop across the wiring and the output voltage of the battery will drop a little as well. The starter motor is designed to work with this occurring and spin at the correct RPM. So when you add up all the losses in a system that is operating correctly you will find that the starter only gets ~9V - 10V while cranking.

When you throw a car battery in the mix and crank the bike over you have voltage losses across the jumper cables and in particular the clips where they attach, with the car off and floating at around 12V this is enough to bring the voltage down to a respectable level for the starter motor and no damage will occur.

If the car is running you have a 150+CCA battery and a 100Amp alternator operating at 14.4V the current potential in the system is so high that the load of a bikes starter motor is no where near enough to drag it down and even once you add in the losses from the jumper cables and what not you still get around 12V at the starter motor, which will make it turn over to fast and put to much current through it.

By placing to much current through the starter motor you risk damaging the windings and more likely the brushes.

Hope that helps Doof, and Mattieg now you see that its not the battery you should be worried about cause even at 14.4V it's still well within its normal operating parameters, its the starter motor.
my understanding is that this is incorrect and that the reason you do not do it turns into a different issue all together

the rectifier
which when it has fully charged the battery dumps exess aperage / voltage to ground, this is why they get hot and over heat and are prone to failure

a standard cards alternater can typically do 2 to 3 times what a bikes generator does, throw in exess amps from the bikes generator when it fires

and your grounding a holy **** ton of over voltage through the rectifier causing it to over heat, and fail, which then opens the potential of a quick short of AC voltage through DC electronics causing failures of the ecu and cluster sets.


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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 08:24 PM
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isn't is just a bridge rectifier ( 4 diodes) with a giant heat sink.....

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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checksix View Post
Do you smell gasoline at the exhaust? You may have flooded the engine during your starting attempts. Try jumping it from a car battery again, but this time hold the throttle wide open while you crank it for 10 or 15 seconds. This might clear out the excess gas and allow it to start.
Checksix for the WIN! Good call!

Quote:
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then what does a tender/charger do? Magic? It doesn't "ramp" up the voltage from 0 to 12volts. Until there are specs on the starter to prove otherewise there is no proof 14 volts is too much for the starter to handle. The proof as it sits now is many including my 03 and 04 bikes have been jumped many times from many different cars/mowers many,many times and have never replaced the starter in either bike. I would love to see specs on the starter....I would have a hard time believing honda would spec a motor so tight that it couldn't hold an extra 1.5 volts.
Yes, it actually does magic...
You connect it to your battery, and to an electrical outlet.
It magically delivers 12 volts to your battery, then magically shuts off when the proper level of amperage is reached.
No damage... It's magically-magic.
Now...watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.

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Unfortunately bikes fall over. It's in their nature.
It's our job to keep them upright, but we are only men.

Last edited by MikeyP; 12-20-2010 at 08:53 PM.
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-20-2010, 10:20 PM
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Checksix for the WIN! Good call!



Yes, it actually does magic...
You connect it to your battery, and to an electrical outlet.
It magically delivers 12 volts to your battery, then magically shuts off when the proper level of amperage is reached.
No damage... It's magically-magic.
Now...watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.
you mean when the proper voltage is reached...nice try

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