Light steering after bump - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2011, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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Light steering after bump

Went up and down the drive today to check the bike was running ok after a small front end bump. First impressions were that the steering felt quite light and twitchy.

I don't know whether that's because I haven't ridden in over a month or if it's the bike or just placebo but it didn't feel as sure as I remember.

Any reasons this might be happening? The front end isn't completely put back together yet (no mudguard, upper cowl or headlights) but I'm not sure if that'd be why.

Other thing is that the clocks aren't plugged in, would that mean the steering damper wouldn't be engaged??
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2011, 08:08 AM
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I believe a steering damper is an aftermarket part on all cbr's. And i believe it is also completely mechanical.


Edit: as for the other questions, im not sure, sorry.


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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2011, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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Nope, it's OEM and is electronic: "Hidden below the steering head was an updated version of the Honda Electronic Steering Damper (HESD) system, which was also available on the CBR1000RR."

That's why I'm wondering whether everything (particularly clocks) need to be hooked up for it to work. I'm hoping so else I might have a problem somewhere!
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradyandhisbike View Post
I believe a steering damper is an aftermarket part on all cbr's. And i believe it is also completely mechanical.


Edit: as for the other questions, im not sure, sorry.
Dampener is only an after market part on 03-06, all others have one stock, it sits under the tank cover... and its also electronically controlled.

And no, the gauges don't set dampener... the ecu set the dampeners 'stiffness'

EDIT: I had it wrong there for a minute...

Last edited by Nico; 02-12-2011 at 08:20 AM.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2011, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
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Score!! Nico you're a top bloke, think you've answered on all of my posts!! Hopefully will be fine when everything is put back together then.

Can't imagine what the handling would be like without a dampener!!
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2011, 08:19 AM
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You can put it into 'test' mode by putting the side stand down, putting the bike into any gear other than neutral, open the throttle all the way and turn the key on. The dampener should then be set to max for 10 seconds.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-12-2011, 12:09 PM
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I stand corrected and i learned something today. Good day.


When you know a thing, to hold that you know it; and when you do not know a thing, to allow that you do not know it - this is knowledge.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-20-2011, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Hey Nico (or anyone with an answer!) I tried the test mode you mentioned and can only barely tell the difference. Everything is back together now and the bike still feels really twitchy. I'm not convinced the damper is doing it's job.

When the damper is on max should the effect be very noticeable or does it give minimal resistance?
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-20-2011, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Just to add as well, the HESD light isn't on which I would have thought would happen if it wasn't working!?

It does flash when I put it in test mode for 10 secs though which I guess is to tell me it's in test mode rather than to tell me there's a problem.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-20-2011, 12:12 PM
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Front tire pressure, wear?

2008 CBR 600RR #1 (Graffiti) street
2008 CBR 600RR #2 track
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-20-2011, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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Tyre pressures are fine, and they're still pretty much new. Only covered a few hundred miles.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-20-2011, 06:29 PM
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function of HESD is speed related.... at low speeds does not need/have much dampening.

also a 10+ lb wt off the front of the bike would change feel somewhat.....

probably only a slight diff. but noticeable?
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-20-2011, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry forgot to mention it's completely back together again now, it just doesn't handle how I remember it did. I'm wondering whether its in my head but using test mode I can feel very little difference when the damper is on max.

I'll double check tyre pressures again tomorrow but I'm sure they're fine as the were recently
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-20-2011, 08:32 PM
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If you took the entire front end apart your forks might be at a different height. Are your forks set to the same height as they were before? Different fork height will affect handling. The farther the forks stick out the top of the top clamp, the more twitchy the steering will be. Though just riding around you shouldn't have noticed a change that much if this is the case.

Also, as someone else mentioned check tire pressure. How are your tires? When I bought my bike it came with some wore out piece of crap rubber and the steering was very strange until I got new tires.

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Last edited by TheGrabulator; 02-20-2011 at 08:34 PM.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions.

I didn't take the forks out, only took it down as far as removing the intake. Forks stayed put. Tyre pressures are 36f 42r which is what I used to run. Hardly any wear on them either.

Went to a dealership today and tried the diagnostic on one of their bikes. Whilst I could tell the difference it wasn't significant and made me think it's probably the same on my bike. Also the fast steering is at very low speeds where I think the damper would be at a minimum anyway.

I'll check fork height hasn't shifted and that preload / dampers are all at stock settings and haven't been knocked. Other than that I'll have to get it looked at, I can pick up a second hand damper pretty cheap anyway so could just eliminate that first.

Any other thoughts would be welcome
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-23-2011, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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fork height fine, preload and damper settings are stock. Just measured wheelbase and got 1382mm which seems to be 13mm longer than stock, but that wouldn't make the bike turn in too fast, quite the opposite. I reckon it's got to be the damper so I've sourced a working one.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Tested the damper today by hand, it definitely works so have ruled that out now as well. Struggling to think what else might cause it.

If the tracking is out would it be turning too quickly? What about wheel balancing? I think it's more that the bike turns in too quickly rather than steering fast.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-26-2011, 04:00 PM
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If turn in has sped up you may find that you have bent the forks in, shortening the wheelbase, but that will be expensive to fix so you probably want to get (at least) a second opinion on that.... and probably one from a suspension specialist.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 05:28 AM Thread Starter
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It's booked in to a race specialist near me. I measured the wheelbase myself and is was 13mm longer than stock (1382mm vs 1359mm stock) which I put down to human error since longer is the wrong way for faster turn in.

Really starting to think it's in my head but am definitely going to get a second opinion.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sauluk View Post
It's booked in to a race specialist near me. I measured the wheelbase myself and is was 13mm longer than stock (1382mm vs 1359mm stock) which I put down to human error since longer is the wrong way for faster turn in.

Really starting to think it's in my head but am definitely going to get a second opinion.
measuring the wheelbase wont tell you much, you could quite easily get 13mm of error between inaccuracies in your tape measure, where you took your measurement from, differences in suspension setup and simple wear and tear... even something as simple as the fuel and oil will make a difference, especially if honda measured it dry.
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 06:19 AM Thread Starter
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Is there a way of checking which will work then? I know it's going in next week but if the forks are bent I'm going to need to call the insurance company. They're parallel with the headstock and don't 'look' bent whatsoever.

Is there a relatively simple way of measuring the rake angle without stripping her down?
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
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Is there a way of checking which will work then? I know it's going in next week but if the forks are bent I'm going to need to call the insurance company. They're parallel with the headstock and don't 'look' bent whatsoever.

Is there a relatively simple way of measuring the rake angle without stripping her down?
Pull a fork out and compare it to a straight edge, or preferably run it on a couple of v blocks against a dial indicator... to many variables at work to do it via wheelbase.

Did you loosen off all of the bolts and re-torque them after your bingle? Sometimes that will sort out any alignment issues that may be present.

Your race shop should be able to tell you what is wrong though.
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
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No I didn't, I may as well try before taking it in. Should I loosen and re-tighten each pair of bolts before doing the next? I'm guessing I shouldn't loosen a whole set in one go as the forks will slip!? Thanks for baring with me on this one!
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 06:51 AM
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Loosen everything, you will obviously need to support the front end... car stands under the frame sliders works well, other than that you can use a piece of wood under the headers to support a jack to lift the front while the rear is on a stand. Or if your really game you can use a jack under the right hand header pipe and lift it over onto the side stand...

If you cant do that then you can loosen the upper and lower triple one side at a time to support the weight of the bike, then once both sides have been loosened and redone undo the lower triple on both sides. Your wheel should be the first thing you undo, and the last you redo.
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 07:06 AM Thread Starter
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I don't have a front stand or a jack (car has runflats so doesn't come with one) only a rear stand. I'll leave it to the professionals I think, don't want to mess anything up when it comes to the suspension.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
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I don't have a front stand or a jack (car has runflats so doesn't come with one) only a rear stand. I'll leave it to the professionals I think, don't want to mess anything up when it comes to the suspension.
Its not hard to do mate, have a look in my sig - you will find a link to replacing your head bearings, its almost exactly the same process minus a few steps.

Loosen the axle pinch bolts both sides

Loosen the axle bolt

Loosen the right hand upper and lower triple clamp pinch bolts, then re-torque the lower only

Loosen the left hand side upper and lower triple clamp, then re-torque the lower only

Remove the upper triple clamp and re-torque the head stem nuts

Re-install the upper triple and re-torque the pinch bolts, put the top stem nut on only hand tight but ensure that the top of the fork tubes sit evenly in the clamp

Loosen the lower triple clamp pinch bolts

Re-torque the top stem nut

Re-torque the lower triple clamp pinch bolts

Re-torque the axle bolt

Re-torque the right hand side axle pinch bolts

Bounce the suspension up and down a few times to seat the axle

Re-torque the left hand side axle pinch bolts

Done!

If you lift the front end up this all becomes a lot easier cause you can just loosen everything then do it all back up again, but if you do all of that stuff above you can leave your front end on the ground and get any alignment issues sorted, just make sure that the steering is pointing forward and the bike is on its stand and upright otherwise you will just be chasing your tail.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, might try it later on. Thanks. I also noticed that the spring preload on the fronts has been very slightly knocked off centre on both sides. Not by like a full turn or anything just a few mm. That wouldn't be causing it would it?
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-27-2011, 07:39 AM
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Probably not, the effect is combined and averaged out... some people even take advantage of that to get a particular spring and valve rate by making both sides intentionally different.
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