03 with possible fuel delivery problem - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-16-2011, 05:56 PM Thread Starter
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Question 03 with possible fuel delivery problem

Im hoping someone else has had a similar issue and point me in the right direction.
Bike - 03 600rr.
Problem - when the bike gets up to about 220 *F, it has throttle issues. If I shut the bike off while it's that hot, I need to give it about 50% throttle while I crank it for it to fire again.
Also when it's this hot I have to slip the clutch and give it more throttle than normal when moving from a stop.

It's clear that heat is a factor.
Is it "vapor lock"?
Could it be something not related to fuel?



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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-16-2011, 06:08 PM
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how many miles bro, I have an 03 and hope this never happens,


any recent drops, mods, changes, work done???

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-16-2011, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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It has 25k miles.

I bought it with 22k miles on it, and this has been a problem since I got it.

Mods are in my sig.



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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-17-2011, 06:22 AM
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did you check the plugs?

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-17-2011, 10:59 AM
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does it throw any dtcs when trying to hot start?
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-17-2011, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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I actually changed the plugs at the start of the season last year.

It doesn't throw any codes.



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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 05:43 AM
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Have you had a look at the r/r?
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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I have not. Can you point me to it's location on the bike?

Also, maybe I'll try taking the pcIII out and see if it makes a difference.



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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 08:40 AM
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its on the left hand side just in front of the stator cover. Silver box about 4" square by 3/4" deep...

To check it measure the DC voltage across the battery at 5k rpm with the high beams on, it should be below 15.5V and around 14V ish. Then measure the AC voltage, you don't want to see much here.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-19-2011, 11:10 AM Thread Starter
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Cool ty. When I get some time this weekend I'll check it out and report back.



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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-21-2011, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Ok here's what I got.
I did the Pair removal mod. And I took my PCIII off while I was in there, just for troubleshooting.

I rode it around and got it up to 220*F and shut it off.
Cranking was surprisingly better. I tried it several times and it always fired on the 2 or 3rd crank.
A few times it did seem to struggle to turn over at the start of cranking.

I forgot to have my high beams and check AC voltage but here the readings I have.
12.8V @ idle
13.5V @ 5k

9.0V @ 220*F Crank
I can take a cold crank reading after it cools down.

Thoughts?



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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-21-2011, 12:24 PM
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Sounds normal to me.....

Have a look at the battery connections and ecu plugs for corrosion. It would also be worth looking at the starter solenoid for corrosion as well...
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-21-2011, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Sounds normal to me.....

Have a look at the battery connections and ecu plugs for corrosion. It would also be worth looking at the starter solenoid for corrosion as well...

ok new info.

Went to a festival in the city today and was in stop and go traffic for like an hour.
Bike got up to 230-235*F. I started shutting it off when traffic was stopped and it was having trouble firing back up. Each time I shut it off and went to start it again it was worse.
By the 3rd time I went to start it hot it wouldn't continually crank. So I had to bump start it.

So I just got home and I tried the tests again w/ the high beam on.

I let it heat up up to 220 and shut it off and cranked it, if it fired I let it run hot for a bit, then shut it off and keep doing this till it wouldn't crank, just like in traffic.

I had a voltmeter on the battery the whole time to monitor.
At idle the volts were at 12.6.
During a crank where it fired it was at about 10V.

When I got to the point where it wouldn't crank, voltage was dropping to 8V during the crank. And after each crank the at rest voltage of the battery would drop each time. 12.6 then to 12.2 then to 12.0 then to 11.8 and it wouldn't crank.

Before the battery was getting to be dead these were the readings with the high beam on.
12.4V idle
12.8-12.9V at 5k
and 24.5mV AC at 5k.

So I'm leaning to Battery or r/r. Or both.



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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-21-2011, 08:25 PM
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How long did you leave it between cranks?
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-21-2011, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
How long did you leave it between cranks?

when it was running and i was trying to get it to the point where it wouldn't crank, maybe 5 min.

When it wasn't firing and kept trying to crank it watching the voltage go down, maybe 30 sec.



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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-21-2011, 11:28 PM
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Was that 5 mins of riding the bike, or just sitting there?

I ask because if you crank and then leave it sit there and then shut down and crank again you will drain the battery on a bike that is working perfectly let alone one that is playing silly buggers.
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-21-2011, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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Ah i see. Yea it was just sitting idle at that point.

When I got home from riding early, i check the voltage at the battery right when i pulled in the driveway. It was 12.6V. That is a little low for just getting done riding for an hour isn't it?



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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-22-2011, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim600RR View Post
Ah i see. Yea it was just sitting idle at that point.

When I got home from riding early, i check the voltage at the battery right when i pulled in the driveway. It was 12.6V. That is a little low for just getting done riding for an hour isn't it?
Maybe a little low, but its still not bad at that point.

Take your battery out and have it load tested, I don't think it will be your r/r but you may have an issue with your starter.

Also check the starter solenoid for corrosion on the contacts...
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-22-2011, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
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No corrosion on the starter leads. Has some minor corrosion on the starter relay, but i checked the resistance of the starter relay connections and that was fine.

Working on getting the battery load tested. But it's looking like the battery is the issue.



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Last edited by Tim600RR; 05-24-2011 at 12:58 PM.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Took the battery to autozone today.
Load tested with no problems. So the search continues....

If the charging system is good it HAS to be the starter...



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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim600RR View Post
Ok here's what I got.
I did the Pair removal mod. And I took my PCIII off while I was in there, just for troubleshooting.

I rode it around and got it up to 220*F and shut it off.
Cranking was surprisingly better. I tried it several times and it always fired on the 2 or 3rd crank.
A few times it did seem to struggle to turn over at the start of cranking.

I forgot to have my high beams and check AC voltage but here the readings I have.
12.8V @ idle
13.5V @ 5k

9.0V @ 220*F Crank
I can take a cold crank reading after it cools down.

Thoughts?

is low, no?

14.2v is about prime charging voltage for a 12v battery....


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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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I was not sure. My service manual just states that the voltage @5k should be higher than at idle.



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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenjin View Post
is low, no?

14.2v is about prime charging voltage for a 12v battery....
14.4 is optimum for an SLA battery, ours are about the same. At 13.5 your still going to be charging a little but its definitely low... a high load on the system can cause it to drop to that point though...
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 06:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim600RR View Post
Before the battery was getting to be dead these were the readings with the high beam on.
12.4V idle
12.8-12.9V at 5k
This was that same test with the motor at 220+ and hibeam on



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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-27-2011, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Update:
Ran continuity tests on r/r harness and stator coil.
No shorts or high resistance.

Going after starter next.



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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-19-2012, 06:39 PM
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VAPOR LOCK!!!!!

my issue was the same

Got the bike back from the mechanic, he said it was vapor lock causing the pump to not work prop.

this fact is from Wiki
Quote:
Most modern engines are equipped with fuel injection, and have an electric submersible fuel pump in the fuel tank. Moving the fuel pump to the interior of the tank helps prevent vapor lock, since the entire fuel delivery system is under positive pressure and the fuel pump runs cooler than if it is located in the engine compartment. This is the primary reason that vapor lock is rare in modern fuel systems. For the same reason, some carbureted engines are retrofitted with an electric fuel pump near the fuel tank.

A vapor lock is more likely to develop when the vehicle is in traffic because the under-hood temperature tends to rise. A vapor lock can also develop when the engine is stopped while hot and the vehicle is parked for a short period. The fuel in the line near the engine does not move and can thus heat up sufficiently to form a vapor lock. The problem is more likely in hot weather or high altitude in either case.

Gravity feed fuel systems are not immune to vapor lock. Much of the foregoing applies equally to a gravity feed system; if vapor forms in the fuel line, its lower density reduces the pressure developed by the weight of the fuel. This pressure is what normally moves fuel from the tank to the carburetor, so fuel supply will be disrupted until the vapor is removed, either by the remaining fuel pressure forcing it into the float bowl and out the vent or by allowing the vapor to cool and re-condense.

Vapor lock has been the cause of forced landings in aircraft. That is why aviation fuel is manufactured to far lower vapor pressure than automotive gasoline (petrol). In addition aircraft are far more susceptible because of their ability to change altitude and associated ambient pressure rapidly. Liquids boil at lower temperatures when in lower pressure environments.
my mechanic tested the gas cap and sure enough it did not release the pressure it needed.

He swapped it for a race style, No Key cap and it worked.
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