Bike won't start - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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Bike won't start

2004 cbr 600rr

went for a ride today bike started fine no problems after about an hour and a half of riding a shut it off and when I tried to start it again nothing happened. No click no sound at all when i pressed the start button. After maybe 10-15mins it fired right up again like there was never an issue at all.

So once I make it back home and shut it off again it decides not to start once more and i have no idea why. It doesn't seem like a dead or weak battery because when it does finally roll over everything sounds fine. It's not turning slow or anything.

Some things i read on these forums are making me think it is a starter issue (because its not starting when its hot). Or maybe a kickstand switch or clutch switch problem. Tomorrow once the bike is fully cooled down I will try again to start it to see if it has the same issues.
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 05:24 PM
 
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 05:26 PM
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Dang, lots of bikes having probs this week.

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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Can anyone give me some tips how I can narrow this down before I start buying parts I don't need?
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 07:54 PM
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I was dealing with the same issue bro,

and for me it was a dying battery, when the starter gets to hot it takes more power to turn it, something to do with it sticking internally, take your battery out and have it load tested,

if you have a buddy with a battery and no issues on his bike swap them and let yours climb to around 186, that is when mine would have trouble, it will start back up around 146, if the bike turns on at all temps its the battery if not, then it most likely is your starter getting stuck,

tripage had this issue,

I just went out and got a battery, and never had the issue again, it will fire up at any temp, 212 and up, no problem,

good luck, just have your battery load tested or put your friends in and see if anything changes,

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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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seems like it won't start when it is hot. I went and started the bike again when the temp gauge had the 2 -- marks and it started up 3 times without any issue and ran great.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 08:59 PM
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Does the fuel pump prime? when its not starting.

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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2011, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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Yes you can hear the fuel pump priming.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2011, 12:45 AM
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So when the motorcycle is hot the engine will not turn over when you try to start it, but when it is cool it starts with no problem? If that is the case then the chance of having a problem with the kickstand switch or clutch switch is very small. Double check your battery and have it load tested. If you find that the battery is okay, then the next time the engine is hot and will not start try to cool down the starter and see if it will then start. If you find the starter to be the problem then I would suggest taking the starter apart and check the the brushes. The starters are easy to take apart and replace brushes if you need to.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2011, 08:01 AM
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No click sound at all would indicate a starter solenoid issue... short out the two large terminals on it and see if it will start when hot.

If it does then a new solenoid will set it to rights.

You will find the solenoid behind the battery, and expect some sparks when you short it...
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2011, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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thanks a bunch people ill be looking into this once i get a bit of free time. but i am still defiantly leaning towards the starter



the solenoid is behind the battery? mind explaining what i am looking for?

Last edited by ablackcbr; 05-19-2011 at 10:33 AM.
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2011, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ablackcbr View Post
thanks a bunch people ill be looking into this once i get a bit of free time. but i am still defiantly leaning towards the starter
I very much doubt it's the starter if there is no click...

The click is the starter solenoid, which then supplies power to the starter motor... No click = no power to turn the starter motor over.

Don't buy a starter motor just yet...

If you have a multimeter measure the voltage across the big terminals and hit the starter, it should go from whatever your battery voltage is to zero if its working, otherwise test for power across the solenoid coil with the starter pressed. If you have power there then the problem is definitely the solenoid.
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ablackcbr View Post
thanks a bunch people ill be looking into this once i get a bit of free time. but i am still defiantly leaning towards the starter



the solenoid is behind the battery? mind explaining what i am looking for?
You edited while I was typing :)

Here it is:


On the left you will see the big terminals, and on the right is the coil terminals... you want to measure across the yellow/red and green/red wires.

It is also worth pulling that red plug off and checking for corrosion as that can cause hot start issues as well...
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-19-2011, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the pics, yea i have a multimeter and will be trying to track this issue down tomorrow. I shall post with results that i find
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-20-2011, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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I just checked the battery with a multimeter when the bike is running and at an idle with the highbeam on it read 12.13 revved to 5k the voltage drops to under 12 so I'm thinking my r/r is the problem. Its supposed to be around 15 volts at 5k rpm isn't it?
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-20-2011, 10:57 AM
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Charging voltage maximum is 15.5 volts, but will probably charge at around 13-14 volts. Sounds like it might be an R/R problem then. The alternator coil should have a resistance between 0.1 - 1.0 ohms. If the resistance if off spec then you should replace the coil. Good luck.

*Post edited to provide correct information as identified by Nico

Last edited by i_tys; 05-26-2011 at 02:33 AM.
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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-20-2011, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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I got the biked warmed up so it wouldn't start anymore with the button but it WILL start when I use a jumper wire across the 2 big terminals on the solenoid
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-20-2011, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_tys View Post
Charging voltage maximum is 15.5 volts, but will probably charge at around 13-14 volts. Sounds like it might be an R/R problem then. With the motorcycle running check the voltage at the R/R connector an then turn off the bike and disconnect the R/R. Measure the resistance of the R/R which should be between 0.1 - 1.0 ohms. If the voltage or resistance if off spec then you should replace it. Good luck.
Where did you get that from? No offence but it's completely wrong...

If you were to measure the STATOR windings (OP: yellow wires going to the r/r, if you want to check this you just measure all three possible combinations) you would expect to see 0.1-1 ohms, but if you wish to test the R/R you will need to measure the voltage drop across the diodes in it, your multimeter has a specific function for this.
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-20-2011, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
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Nico can you confirm i should replace the solenoid if i can start the bike every time with a jumper wire between the two big terminals when it will not start when i hit the button?
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-20-2011, 12:04 PM
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That is right, provided you get 12V between the two smaller ones when the button is pushed.
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-25-2011, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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still waiting for my solenoid to show up. hope this fixes my problem I'm getting anxious to ride again....

thanks again nico
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Where did you get that from? No offence but it's completely wrong...
I was looking through the service repair manual, but you are correct. The 0.1 - 1ohm reading was for the alternator coil and not the R/R. I will change my previous post. Thank you for the clarification and I will be more diligent in posting specifications in the future.
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_tys View Post
I was looking through the service repair manual, but you are correct. The 0.1 - 1ohm reading was for the alternator coil and not the R/R. I will change my previous post. Thank you for the clarification and I will be more diligent in posting specifications in the future.
That's what I figured... alternator coil = stator coil

Easy to misread these things at times...
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-01-2011, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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problem fixed! it was the solenoid.
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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-02-2011, 03:48 AM
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Good to hear mate
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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-05-2011, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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well i thought i had this resolved but after a ride today I encountered the same problem. I guess ill take it apart and have a look at the starter.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-07-2011, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Unless my new solenoid is bad as well I have no idea what is wrong.

Cold bike starts perfect.
Hot bike will not start with the button, no click, no noise, no nothing. But it will still start if I short out the solenoid.

How can I test this solenoid to make sure?
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-08-2011, 06:13 AM
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To work it out you need to measure the resistance from the solenoid coil to ground. Then make sure you are getting a stable 12V with the starter pushed... Once you figure out which side is giving you trouble you can start looking for the faulty component.
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-09-2011, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
To work it out you need to measure the resistance from the solenoid coil to ground. Then make sure you are getting a stable 12V with the starter pushed... Once you figure out which side is giving you trouble you can start looking for the faulty component.
what am I measuring? sorry if this is getting long i just want my bike running right.

also i am a multimeter noob more or less.

i have another solenoid comming just incase this one actually is broken. But it wont be here for a bit.

Last edited by ablackcbr; 06-09-2011 at 07:33 PM.
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-12-2011, 07:57 AM
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One side of the solenoid gets power via the ignition, run and start switches, the other goes to ground via your neutral and side stand switches and clutch diode and/or it goes to ground via your clutch switch and diode....

All you need to do is make sure you get 12V on one side and ground on the other... when you measure the 12V side you will obviously need to hit the start switch so just do that with the stand down and the bike in gear so that it doesn't actually start... ground side doesn't even require the bike to be on...

And when you do the ground side measure in the "diode" mode, you should read around 0.6-0.8V or so one way and nothing the other way.
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