Bike wont start when hot and.... - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Question Bike wont start when hot and....

Please help troubleshoot my bike: when I first noticed the problem was when i would start the bike in the morning when it's cold and it would start up fine no problem. However, when the bike was hot it ( above 170 degrees or so) would not start as the starter would barely turn the engine until finally it lost power. So what I would do is get the bike rolling and drop it into first to manually turn the engine over and it would fire back up. Later the problem progressed to occur when I was actually driving; it would die on the road and quickly fire up again under its own momentum. So I replaced the battery and the starter spins just fine now, but the bike still does not fire up. More specifically, Currently the bike will rarely start if it's cold and sometimes not, but definitely not if its hot. So my question is do I first replace the spark plugs or the fuel injectors/pump next, and why? It's a 2004 cbr 600 rr with 38,000 miles.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-22-2011, 07:26 PM Thread Starter
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Thx for any help in advance
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-23-2011, 05:04 AM
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How long have you had this battery in her?

Is it throwing any DTCs?

Do you have a multimeter?
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-25-2011, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
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What are dtc's and yes I have a multimeter. Battery has been in for 72 hours...
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-25-2011, 06:07 AM
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rectifier / regulator
battery
starter motor in need of rebuild

^^^ the other id check things out.


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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-25-2011, 07:50 AM
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stator should also read around .3 ohms across each coil and the stator voltage at higher running rpm's should be around 40-60 VAC. also do the diode test on the regulator rectifier to see if its good or not. is the fuel line pinched?

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-25-2011, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motaskate View Post
What are dtc's and yes I have a multimeter. Battery has been in for 72 hours...
Diagnostic trouble codes... the MIL (malfunction indicator lamp, otherwise know as the oil light) should light up if there is a problem...

Do you have a pc3 installed? They had been known to have problems with heat when they first came out...
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-25-2011, 09:22 AM
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i'm with tenjin, i have an 03, not sure how the 04 is set up but regulator rectifier is right up against headed, i simply got an 05 model regulator rectifier, which sets it on the other side of a metal plate and elevates it off the plate, havent had a problem since, that was the biggest head ache i ever had with my bike
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-26-2011, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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Here is a video of me doing a cold start. Do you guys think that disconnectimg the gas line before the engine and turning it over to see if it spits out gas is the next step, that would narrow it down to an electrical problem no?
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-26-2011, 11:21 PM
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Not to steal the thread, but my 07 does a similar thing. Cold start is fine and even after riding if its parked in the shade, it will start again fine. But if its in the sun, I will have to turn key on, ignition for a bit, turn key back, turn key on, ignition...and so forth. Then it will get to a point where it will start, sputter, then die. Two more rounds of that and then it starts and runs fine. Long story short I'm interested to see what pplz say - SUBSCRIBED!

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-27-2011, 04:10 AM
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Check for spark... pull a plug and coil then with the plug out put it back into the coil, hold the end against the block and turn her over. You should see it sparking... don't stick your fingers on the end cause it hurts like nothing else when they get you...

Also worth checking the voltage between the black/white wire (common to all the coils) and the frame, should be 12V with the bike on and the kill switch in run.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-27-2011, 05:18 AM Thread Starter
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So check the plugs to see if its an electrical problem, and check the fuel line before the engine to see if its spitting out gas to see if its a fuel problem? Any writeups available to do these?
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-27-2011, 05:46 AM
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Don't worry about the fuel, you can hear the pump running so there is a better than average chance that you have fuel there. The issue is more likely to be with the ignition system or a sensor that controls ignition and fuel timing.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-27-2011, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Don't worry about the fuel, you can hear the pump running so there is a better than average chance that you have fuel there. The issue is more likely to be with the ignition system or a sensor that controls ignition and fuel timing.
Great, thx! So I'm going to work from the engine back, so I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to get to the spark plugs to check them, but if they have a spark and voltage is correct what next? I also read posts that cite a yellow ground or circuit box that has caused starting problems underneath the seat around the subframe, anyone know exactly where this is or what I should look for? Also, does anyone know where the regulator rectifier mentioned earlier in this post is, and is it involved in the ignition system or sensor setup?

Thanks so much to everyone for there help so far.

Last edited by Motaskate; 06-27-2011 at 06:29 PM.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-28-2011, 03:37 AM
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You will only find the yellow box on 05-06 bikes, the RR is on the left hand side mounted on a bracket, its a cast aluminium box with fins. It is what produces the charging voltage for the bike, if it was dead you wouldn't have the starter motor turning over.

Check the voltage first, then pull a plug and test the spark.

Did you have the bike hooked up to a car battery or anything when you were taping that video? The motor is turning over quite quickly.

How much fuel can you smell at the exhaust?
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-27-2011, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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OK so i unbolted and lowered the radiator, then i removed one of the electric coil connections, I removed it and plugged the voltimeter across the two terminals, fired it and it read zero voltage. Tried another and it also read zero. I then removed the plug and fired it again and noticed that there was no spark and no gas was flying out of the hole. Im a little confused however: is the plug part of the black tube that comes out of the hole (the coil) or is it still inside? If it isn't inside shouldnt gas be coming out of the hole? Also I did not notice any oil on the black tube (coil). If the spark plug is still in the hole how do I get it out? Also when its turning over there is no distinct smell of gas in the exhaust. Thx for any help in advance

Last edited by Motaskate; 07-27-2011 at 09:30 PM.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-28-2011, 07:22 AM
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You won't be able to read a voltage across the feed to the coil as it is switching WAY to fast for anything but the VERY best of multimeters, and if you could afford one of those you probably wouldn't be trying to fix your own bike, or even have a RR at all for that matter...

If you want to test for voltage there you will need to use a test light.

The black thing you are pulling out is the coil, and the spark plug stays in the hole. To get it out use the tool that came with the bike.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-28-2011, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
You won't be able to read a voltage across the feed to the coil as it is switching WAY to fast for anything but the VERY best of multimeters, and if you could afford one of those you probably wouldn't be trying to fix your own bike, or even have a RR at all for that matter...

If you want to test for voltage there you will need to use a test light.

The black thing you are pulling out is the coil, and the spark plug stays in the hole. To get it out use the tool that came with the bike.

Where is the tool located on the bike, or where can I pick one up?
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 05:36 AM
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In the tool box under the right hand mid fairing.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2011, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
In the tool box under the right hand mid fairing.
I bought the bike used and of coarse the tool box is empty. Here is a video of the bike (sorry its sideways tilted left of the screen). I dont see a spark plug sticking out of the hole like it shows in the Honda CBR dealer repair manual? Any advice on how to find it short of sticking my finger in the exposed hole shown in the video?

video:

Also, will this spark plug tool work for our bikes?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA...Q5fAccessories

Last edited by Motaskate; 07-30-2011 at 02:40 PM.
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-02-2011, 04:39 AM
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The plug is down that exposed hole mate, and that tool will do you no good at all, its to short. You may be able to get away with a spark plug socket and the right combination of extensions etc.
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 05:32 AM
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Turns out my same issue is the battery.
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 05:47 AM
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i had the issue with my bike once its hot, got to the point to where i was riding and all the electrical would cut out then back on several times. it turned out that i had three relays sitting too close to the radiator and werent getting any airflow, overheated and would trip. possible a relay?
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-12-2011, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Update. Replaced the stator generator n it didn't fix problem. I was thinking the coils n plugs next, but find it hard to believe that they would all go out at once. If one goes out will the bike not start? Also I smell gas in the exhaust, so what should I check next? Can anyone show me a link to a spark plug tool on eBay etc. That will work for an 04 rr?
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-12-2011, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenjin View Post
rectifier / regulator
battery
starter motor in need of rebuild

^^^ the other id check things out.
^^^^^^^^^^^^


starter motor..............


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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-12-2011, 04:53 PM
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"this is gonna sound crazy, BUT. if you use a spark plug socket, then put a 3/8-1/4 adapter then a a 1/4-3/8 adapter. it is the perfect length to swap out the plugs, i did that on my 04, and it worked like a charm. just unbolt your rad and let it hang from teh hoses." quoted from another thread,

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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-12-2011, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuuScbr View Post
"this is gonna sound crazy, BUT. if you use a spark plug socket, then put a 3/8-1/4 adapter then a a 1/4-3/8 adapter. it is the perfect length to swap out the plugs, i did that on my 04, and it worked like a charm. just unbolt your rad and let it hang from teh hoses." quoted from another thread,
damn it bas

its not his ignition system ;)


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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-12-2011, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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I don't think the starter motor is the problem, cuz in the video I posted the engine is turning over... what size mm socket is the spark plug head?
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