Help me figure this out! VIDEO INCLUDED! - 600RR.net
Troubleshooting Having trouble with your bike? Common know issues or trobuleshooting questions here.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-22-2012, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
austin0903's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 152
Images: 1
Thanks: 16
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Help me figure this out! VIDEO INCLUDED!

So here's the deal. I removed my servo and flapper from my 2008 600rr track bike. Built the circuit to override the FI light. (Alexchannell's circuit). Once installed, the FI light turned off. Rode around my neighborhood and it was good. Got out to Chuck for Trackdaz' 4/20 track day. Once I got out on the track and started getting on the throttle the FI light came on. Not only was it dogging but once I would hit about 13k RPMs the engine would cut off and pick back up (As you can see in the video). I had to baby the throttle to avoid it cutting out on me, you can see that as I was getting passed like I was sitting still. The bike would rev fine in neutral or with the clutch in. Would hit the rev limiter without problem. Got back to the pits and it was throwing a code 35. I decided to unplug the circuit and it was throwing code 34. It was cutting out around corners and the straights. This obviously proved to be dangerous to myself and other riders so my day was ended very early.
I took the bike down the road today and it rode awesome in 1st and 2nd. Pulling hard and was able to hit the rev limiter. Was not able to get above 2nd.

If I could get some input on what the cause of this would be that would be great. Is the bike shutting down and picking back up a side affect of code 34 or 35, or is there something else going on?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-Rj_...ature=youtu.be

Cutting out at 1:23, 1:54, 2:08, 2:28, 2.59, 3:13

After 3:13 I was just pulling back into the pits...nothing exciting

Last edited by austin0903; 04-22-2012 at 08:54 PM.
austin0903 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-22-2012, 06:32 PM
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 138
Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Do you have any pictures of the servo eliminator mod that you did? The error codes 34/35 have to do with the servo motor so my initial suspicion would be that it is somehow wired incorrectly. You could also inspect the circuit doing some of the tests on pages 6-40 to 6-42 in the manual. By the way, did you safety wire the flapper in the midpipe if you have a stock exhaust still?
imprez55 is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-22-2012, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
austin0903's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 152
Images: 1
Thanks: 16
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
No I don't have pics of the eliminator. It is wrapped up in electrical tape. Yea I know the codes are for the servo but not sure why it is a different servo code when the circuit is hooked up. I will probably look into doing some of the tests and go from there. I took the whole exhaust off and brought it into an exhaust shop and had the mid pipe cut off right before the valve. They custom bent exhaust piping to fit right into my slip on. So the flapper and cat were removed.
austin0903 is offline  
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-23-2012, 07:25 AM
Administrator
 
Nico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 13,137
Thanks: 135
Thanked 1,530 Times in 1,047 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
When you built the circuit, how did you join everything together?

34 indicates that the voltage has either gone full low or full high, in the case of it being disconnected it will be full high (5V from memory)

35 on the other hand indicates that the servo position voltage is within spec but bouncing around, such as when the feedback pot is damaged or the wiring is dodgy...

I'm guessing that if it wasn't soldered that your problem is there... and if it is soldered you may have overheated the capacitor.
Nico is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Nico For This Useful Post:
austin0903 (04-23-2012)
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-23-2012, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
austin0903's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 152
Images: 1
Thanks: 16
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
When you built the circuit, how did you join everything together?

34 indicates that the voltage has either gone full low or full high, in the case of it being disconnected it will be full high (5V from memory)

35 on the other hand indicates that the servo position voltage is within spec but bouncing around, such as when the feedback pot is damaged or the wiring is dodgy...

I'm guessing that if it wasn't soldered that your problem is there... and if it is soldered you may have overheated the capacitor.
It wasn't soldered. I used connectors where I could. I'm going to try and solder it and see what happens. I have heard even if the servo is disconnected that it wouldn't have an affect on the performance. It would just throw the code. Also heard it would put the bike into "limp" mode. So not sure which one is accurate. If the bike is running this way due to the codes then that would be a relief. That would be a simple fix. If there is something else going on than that's where I'm going to run into problems.
austin0903 is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-23-2012, 06:39 PM
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 138
Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
The bike is almost certainly running that way because of the circuit and the codes support that. My guess is that vibrations are causing the connections to become loose and reconnect again causing random voltages to be sent back to the ECU. You probably need the higher rate of speed to induce enough vibrations to cause the connections to be interrupted. The bike is probably going into limp mode to protect the engine. In the video it seemed you were WOT many of the times it lurched, suggesting the ECU thinks the servo is closing so it shuts power temporarily to protect itself.
imprez55 is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-24-2012, 02:33 AM
Administrator
 
Nico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 13,137
Thanks: 135
Thanked 1,530 Times in 1,047 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
AFAIK the bike won't go into any kind of limp mode, reason being that a failed EGCV will make scavenging less efficient in effect making the mixture rich which while wasteful isn't a dangerous condition for it to be in.

It could be messing with the fueling and ignition maps to a certain degree, causing your problems but I'm really not sure...
Nico is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-24-2012, 03:52 AM
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 138
Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
AFAIK the bike won't go into any kind of limp mode, reason being that a failed EGCV will make scavenging less efficient in effect making the mixture rich which while wasteful isn't a dangerous condition for it to be in.

It could be messing with the fueling and ignition maps to a certain degree, causing your problems but I'm really not sure...
Good to know. Do you happen to have any documentation or proof saying that there is not limp mode for Honda's? I would imagine it would be more difficult to prove the negative versus proving there is a limp mode. I certainly believe you, however I, as well as the op apparently, have heard it both ways for Honda although I have seen no proof substantiating either claim. I have seen proof (dyno sheets) of gsxr's going into a limp mode so I know it does exist, just not what manufacturers implement it and under what scope.
imprez55 is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-24-2012, 04:30 AM
Administrator
 
Nico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 13,137
Thanks: 135
Thanked 1,530 Times in 1,047 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
No empirical proof as such no... however most of the faults that would normally cause the bike to go into a limp mode, honda choose to simply shut the engine off...

Things like secondary injector failure will stop the bike from running even though the bike could be rev limited to 5k and the injectors stopped in order to ride it without any substantial risk of damage occurring... Honda's attitude towards these things seems to be stop the bike instead of reduce it's performance to keep it rideable.

There are a number of failures that can occur that won't shut the bike down, but will still cause a decrease in performance though... the decrease in performance isn't the same as a limp mode though.
Nico is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-24-2012, 04:30 AM
Administrator
 
Nico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 13,137
Thanks: 135
Thanked 1,530 Times in 1,047 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
No empirical proof as such no... however most of the faults that would normally cause the bike to go into a limp mode, honda choose to simply shut the engine off...

Things like secondary injector failure will stop the bike from running even though the bike could be rev limited to 5k and the injectors stopped in order to ride it without any substantial risk of damage occurring... Honda's attitude towards these things seems to be stop the bike instead of reduce it's performance to keep it rideable.

There are a number of failures that can occur that won't shut the bike down, but will still cause a decrease in performance though... the decrease in performance isn't the same as a limp mode though.
Nico is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Nico For This Useful Post:
imprez55 (04-24-2012)
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-24-2012, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
austin0903's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 152
Images: 1
Thanks: 16
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
I'm going to solder the wires and hopefully get a better connection. If it's still running this way I can rule out the codes as the problem.
austin0903 is offline  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-24-2012, 06:09 PM
Administrator
 
Nico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 13,137
Thanks: 135
Thanked 1,530 Times in 1,047 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
I would say that once the codes have been fixed, if the problem is still there they won't be the problem...
Nico is offline  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-24-2012, 06:21 PM
Knee Dragger
 
MYLIFE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 173
Thanks: 9
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
let me know what happens,i'm going 2 do the same with my servo
MYLIFE is offline  
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-24-2012, 08:45 PM
Knee Dragger
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 138
Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
No empirical proof as such no... however most of the faults that would normally cause the bike to go into a limp mode, honda choose to simply shut the engine off...

Things like secondary injector failure will stop the bike from running even though the bike could be rev limited to 5k and the injectors stopped in order to ride it without any substantial risk of damage occurring... Honda's attitude towards these things seems to be stop the bike instead of reduce it's performance to keep it rideable.

There are a number of failures that can occur that won't shut the bike down, but will still cause a decrease in performance though... the decrease in performance isn't the same as a limp mode though.
Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by MYLIFE View Post
let me know what happens,i'm going 2 do the same with my servo
I did the modification to my '10 and haven't seen the op's problems yet. I have only done static tests and no riding but I did solder the joints. I can update to see what happens at the track this Saturday if you would like.
imprez55 is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-25-2012, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
austin0903's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 152
Images: 1
Thanks: 16
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Going to do it this weekend so I'll update it soon after.
austin0903 is offline  
post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
austin0903's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 152
Images: 1
Thanks: 16
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
So I went ahead and soldered the wires tonight. Everything looked good until I ran it up to third gear and gave it a little gas on the stand. 35 popped back up. I'm not sure what else to do at this point. I didn't get on it hard enough to see if it would cut out but I'm sure it would.
austin0903 is offline  
post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 07:23 PM
Administrator
 
Nico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 13,137
Thanks: 135
Thanked 1,530 Times in 1,047 Posts
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
hmm...

That other bloke having almost the same problem, we can wait and see what resistor value he comes up with or you can do the same if you like...
Nico is offline  
post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-26-2012, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
Knee Dragger
 
austin0903's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 152
Images: 1
Thanks: 16
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
I'm tempted to just buy the servo buddy from a company in San Diego. They claim is guaranteed to work. But it's hard justifying spending $60 for less than $5 worth of components. It's a bit ridiculous...
austin0903 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the 600RR.net forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome