Cam install cont. - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Cam install cont.

OK I just did a compression test with the engine warm.



Here is what I did.



1) Put the bike back to running condition.

2) Started it and ran it till 220deg f

3) tore the thing apart to get to the valve cover.

4) pulled the plugs

5) tested compression of each cylinder



#1cyl. 110psi #2cyl. 108psi #3cyl. 122psi #4cyl. 132psi.



So after looking in the manual and seeing it is supposed to be 178psi. I got to thinking.........something must be wrong. lol but with those readings it ran 98hp at the wheel. I wonder what it would pull with 178psi in each cylinder.





Any way is there any Honda techs in mid Michigan looking for a challenge?

I think it must be the shims.

Last edited by dbosco002; 11-20-2005 at 10:31 PM.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 10:19 PM
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You might want to change the color of your font, its very hard to read.
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 10:19 PM
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Ok, better!
 
post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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thats all you had to say. WTF give me some advice other than font color

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Originally Posted by crotch_rocket_pilot
You might want to change the color of your font, its very hard to read.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 10:39 PM
 
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lol..... well he is unemployed, maybe thats why?
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-20-2005, 11:18 PM
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I don't think it would be the shims unless they were taken out and not put back in their original locations. As the valvetrain wears thicker shims need to be added to get the valves to open back to their original specs, this would cause a lack of performance, but not a lack of compression as the valves would still close all the way.

What are the condition of the plugs? If they are fouled with oil it would suggest worn rings. Do you smell excessive amounts of fuel in the oil? Also an indicator of worn rings. Check for oil in the coolant, that would be a blown headgasket, warped head, or improperly tourqed head at best. Last would be to check the valves & valve seats for damage or carbon deposits causing them not to seal correctly when shut.

Eric

Last edited by Black05rr; 11-21-2005 at 12:12 AM.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 10:29 AM
 
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Did you check your cam to valve clearance? exhaust is suppost to be .011 and intakes are .008 clearance. But I don't think thats your problem. Worth checking.
The next thing to do is a leak down test on you cylinders. If the motor needs work it will most likely cost more then a used motor.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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I will check it out. sounds like it may be the problem.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekon
Did you check your cam to valve clearance? exhaust is suppost to be .011 and intakes are .008 clearance. But I don't think thats your problem. Worth checking.
The next thing to do is a leak down test on you cylinders. If the motor needs work it will most likely cost more then a used motor.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 08:45 AM
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If the motor has been run for some time with incorrect clearances its possible the valve seats could get burnt out. This would be the case if the valve clearances were set too tight, the valves wouldn't be fully closed leaving the seat exposed when the cylinder fires. You'd also get air leaks which would cause difficulty in starting from cold. Tight clearances would give the same effect as the valves won't close fully.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 08:54 AM
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You know the guy screwed up the shims. Start there and put the correct shims in. Then run the compression test again to see if it corrected the problem. If not, you may need to pull the head to correct any seat or seal problems that troy45 was talking about.


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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 08:58 AM
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It's also better to update the same thread instead of creating a new one. There's a lot of history behind this that some people may not be getting so you'll duplicate questions and suggestions.

Here's the first thread on this...
https://www.600rr.net/vb/showthread.php?t=35770


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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-08-2006, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
 
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It has been a while but I just checked the clearences and I could only get a .0015 guage under 5 of the lobes! That means that they aren't closing right? So I am ripping it apart today. I had to make that little tool to take the preasure off the cct. I am excited! Just think I pulled 98hp like this so when my compression is where it is suposed to be it should be a good amount more!!!
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-08-2006, 05:31 PM
 
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i hope you get everything right... but if you have to buy a new motor i will be interested in the crank case
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-08-2006, 06:45 PM
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Checking and adjusting the valve clearances is a very specialised job. If the clearances are too tight you have to take cams out, put smaller shims in, refit the cams with all the cam retainers etc, remeasure the clearance hoping you now have clearance then refer to the table in the manual where you cross reference the gap measured and the shim size currently fitted, to determine which size shim will give the correct clearance. You might have to go through several sizes of smaller shims to get a measurable clearance depending on how far out things are. You also have to ensure you don't screw up any of the valve timing settings or you could end up wrecking pistons, valves and the cylinder head.


I admire your enthusiasm but it really is a job for a mechanic or someone who has good experience of doing valve clearance adjustments.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-08-2006, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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thank for the concern.... I just took the cams out and measured each of the shims. There is a definite relationship between the shims on the intake side with the clearence under the cam. The exhaust side is not quite the same though. I think that I will pick up 4 intake and 4 exhaust shims that are considerably smaller (by about .010-.015) and use them to test the clearance. This should make it much less time consuming
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-08-2006, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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I dont know why I cant just have the shims ground to the correct spec. Has anybody done this? there is know reason why I cant... I would just need to get the hardness spec for the shims and use the right grinding wheel. What do you think
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-09-2006, 01:02 AM
 
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i broke my crank case and im gonna buy a new motor so if you want to buy my cylinder head i can sell it to you for a excellent price...
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-09-2006, 11:16 AM
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Shims are cheap and any dealer will have them. They will say they dont but they are lying, they are just a basic kit, so if you go to a Honda dealer they WILL have them. Here is a link for a kit that Dennis Kirk sells, this way you would have all of them. http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...yId=#altImages It does not list the 600RR but I am almost positive that it is the same as the F4i. Anyway, I wouldn't bother grinding because I would think it would be quickr and easier to just pick up a couple at the local stealership.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-18-2006, 06:40 PM
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The reason it is peaking early on power and not ticking over is definately because a cam is a tooth out. You'll probably have 15bhp more at 8krpm than a stock bike i bet!

Tightening the shims for track use LOL. The guy you bought the motor off must be a darwin award winner LOL. Race clearances if anything want to be looser. Looser gives more power.

If you are getting poor compression on a 2500 mile engine that has had the cams installed wrong then chances are the valves on the cam side are bent. Then again maybe the rings are shagged because the previous darwin winner tried extra virgin oilve oil instead of 10w/40 LOL. Don't worry, a new set of valves is only $450 and you will need new retainers and cotters too.

In all seriousness though, sorry to hear of your problems. Nice to see someone getting their hands dirty and trying to fix it. Do a leakdown test, forget the comrpession test. You will see straight away where the problem is.

Lastly, it may be worth having a close look at the cotters. Put a vernier on the tip of the valve and measure the distance to the retainer top. If any of the readings are more than 8 thou different from the rest then the whole lot needs to go in the trash. Its a quick way to test the state without removing the head.

Hope this helps.

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-30-2006, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
 
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Well Tim I didn't do all of that but I did replace all of the shims because they were about .008-.013 out of spec. It took me some time because I don't have tons of school and work so saturday is the only day I could work on it. So anyway I replace all of the shims because none we in spec. I put it all back togather and fired it up and It runs like a champ No stalling!!!! it even sounds beter/deeper. I was sooo happy that I finaly got that thing fixed. All of that time replacing parts and ripping it apart. I took it down the road and the responce is so much better!

So on Friday I am taking it to thumb motorsprts in Cass City Michigan and Chad (owner) is going to do some test and tune for me.


What HP do you think I will pull? It had 98 with really low compression. I would guess 105-107. maybe less. What do you think?
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