Throttle Position Sensor - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Throttle Position Sensor

Hey guys,

I plan to put an end to this semi re-occuring problem that no one seems to figure out (based on my thread searches).

So, my bike, 2003 600rr, will run fine, and then once parked for a short period of time 6 hours/overnight I will turn it on and the oil light will blink 8 times, which I found out is a throttle position sensor error.

The light used to not happen very often, and now (after my front end swap for some reason) the light is almost always blinking 8 times, but when I turn it off after riding it for a few minutes the light goes away, and then when parked for a while it comes back on. When the light is on the rpm goes to about 2-2.5k. When the light is off, the rpm is normal, 1.5k.

To me it makes no sense. I have come to the conclusion of unless the oil is trapped somewhere from lifting the front end for the swap and thats messing with the code, then I have a bad TPS.

I have already removed most connections in the headlight area, under the gas tank, and the fuel injection row, cleaned and replaced tightly to ensure there were no faulty connections. Friday I will be locating the actual TPS (is there a connector that goes to that?) and ensuring it is clean and firmly connected. I will also run some of the tests for continuity and what not that the manual says to run to trouble shoot a bad tps.

I have one question, if the tps is bad, will I be able to buy a throttle body with a good TPS from a 2005 600rr and directly swap no problems to my bike? I know the tps's are synced at the factory, but does this have anything to do with the motor it is paired with?

Thanks guys!

Also if you have any suggestions of anything else I could do, let me know.

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 06:30 PM
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why not just replace the TPS with a new one?
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngy View Post
why not just replace the TPS with a new one?
Honda will not sell the TP sensors individually because they are synced with their specific throttle bodies at the factory. I read that the bolts are even broken off so that they cannot be removed, replaced, or even cleaned. So that is not an option, the throttle bodies as a whole will have to be replaced. I found a good source to get a used set from a 2005.

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob92icu View Post
Honda will not sell the TP sensors individually because they are synced with their specific throttle bodies at the factory. I read that the bolts are even broken off so that they cannot be removed, replaced, or even cleaned. So that is not an option, the throttle bodies as a whole will have to be replaced. I found a good source to get a used set from a 2005.
The bolts are not broken off but it is a special type of bolt used to install them. What it is called I do not know. I do not know see why a 2005 throttle body+tps set up would hurt your bike though. How ever my buddy did the opposite and installed an older TPS on his boddies and had zero issues. He replaced due to damaging it while doing work on it not an error light. Not that it will make a diff. Just my two cents for you.

Are they going to sell you the setup for the same price as a new TPS would run?

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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckain87 View Post
The bolts are not broken off but it is a special type of bolt used to install them. What it is called I do not know. I do not know see why a 2005 throttle body+tps set up would hurt your bike though. How ever my buddy did the opposite and installed an older TPS on his boddies and had zero issues. He replaced due to damaging it while doing work on it not an error light. Not that it will make a diff. Just my two cents for you.

Are they going to sell you the setup for the same price as a new TPS would run?

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Oh, my bad then. Now I know of two people who have just replaced the tps not the whole throttle body set up. Hmm interesting...

And the setup will be (im assuming) around 75 bucks, cause he hasn't given me a price yet, but its the same guy I got the great deal from on the front end.

At this point I hope it is just a loose connection to the tps. Speaking of, does anyone have a good picture of where the tps is with respect to the left side of the bike with the mid fairing removed on an 03? And of the tps connector?

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 10:41 PM
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I know it is right on the left side of your bodies.

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mckain87 View Post
I know it is right on the left side of your bodies.

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Haha I know.. this is like the only picture I can find of it actually installed on the internet!!



I would like a zoomed out picture of this, but it looks like, if thats the frame at the top of the above picture, that if I take off the left mid fairing it will be sitting right there.

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 10:53 PM
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Sounds right but I know limited about an 03 haha

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mckain87 View Post
Sounds right but I know limited about an 03 haha

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Dont make fun of me... I wish I had an 07+ :(

Hahaha.

It looks like it is easier to get at then people have been saying though. And I hope it is just not connected properly, cause the way the oil light error code is is unusual, turning on and off. Anyone agree?

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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-28-2014, 11:38 PM
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I am not making fun. Your bike is nice bro. And yes since it is intermittent that is a good chance.

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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 01:14 AM
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Ok. Before you do anything more, loosen your throttle cables. Like really loose. You may have put your tps out of range by over tightening them.

Its a bit of a long shot but try that first.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 02:16 AM Thread Starter
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I am not making fun. Your bike is nice bro. And yes since it is intermittent that is a good chance.

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Haha I was just kidding mckain! But I pesonally love the look of the 07 plus is what I was getting at.

And wibbly! That would be amazing! What do you mean by loosen them? Because I did move them around a bunch when I did the swap, and now they are in a different location.

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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 02:21 AM
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There are two adjusters near the throttle, loosen the locking nut and turn them in. As they get looser you'll notice free play in the throttle tube

Make sure your cables move freely and aren't pinched anywhere. I suspect that as the cables cool they get tight and pull the tps out of range, as they warm up and expand they may put it back in range.


So loosen them off so the throttle has a ton of play in it. See if this clears up your issue.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 02:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
There are two adjusters near the throttle, loosen the locking nut and turn them in. As they get looser you'll notice free play in the throttle tube

Make sure your cables move freely and aren't pinched anywhere. I suspect that as the cables cool they get tight and pull the tps out of range, as they warm up and expand they may put it back in range.


So loosen them off so the throttle has a ton of play in it. See if this clears up your issue.
Sounds good, I will try that this weekend as well. I'll move them around and make sure there is plenty of slack as well. That would be awesome if that was the cause haha. And it would make me angry too, cause I broke one of my fuel injection connectors trying to troubleshoot...

**EDIT**

You know what wibbly, now that I think of it, when I was doing the swap, I just let the throttle housing hang by the cables and I bet that made the cables have greater tension. What do you think about that wibbly?

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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 02:40 AM
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unlikely...

another one, do you have a power commander at all?
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
unlikely...

another one, do you have a power commander at all?
Yes there is a power commander, and I messed with it a little bit to see if there was any effect on the tps error code, and nothing changed it.

What are you thinking?

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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 03:00 AM
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Remove the power commander. It hijacks the tps signal.

Thats probably your issue.

The throttle cable issue may not affect Hondas, I know it will on some bikes but maybe not these.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 03:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
Remove the power commander. It hijacks the tps signal.

Thats probably your issue.

The throttle cable issue may not affect Hondas, I know it will on some bikes but maybe not these.
I tried disconnecting the power commander as well, didnt work as far as I know. I think Ill try to ensure the connection to the tps and also ensure the throttle has freeplay. Sucks cause I cant do anything till thursday

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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 03:34 AM
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well I'm surprised. on other bikes you can change the TPS. those screws are Torx Security. You can buy the tool to undo them.

What I would normally do is fit the new TPS with the screws loose, run the bike and turn the TPS until you get the highest idle. then tighten the screws.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngy View Post
well I'm surprised. on other bikes you can change the TPS. those screws are Torx Security. You can buy the tool to undo them.

What I would normally do is fit the new TPS with the screws loose, run the bike and turn the TPS until you get the highest idle. then tighten the screws.
Yea if I can ever find a solution to this problem I will be posting here again. And if I have further questions.

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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
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well I'm surprised. on other bikes you can change the TPS. those screws are Torx Security. You can buy the tool to undo them.

What I would normally do is fit the new TPS with the screws loose, run the bike and turn the TPS until you get the highest idle. then tighten the screws.
You can change on his bike as well.

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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-01-2014, 03:41 AM Thread Starter
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Sooo fellas, particularly wibbly, I did what you were saying (I think), and also disconnected and firmly reconnected the tps connector. After some fine tuning this morning, the oil light code did not come on alllll day while I was riding in the 40 degree weather

However, when I parked it for a long duration of time, I came out to ride home, and flicked the switch to run and the light was blinking 8 times again, so I turned the key off, moved the bike, and then flipped the switch to run again and no blinking this time. Rode home and turned it off and on and no blinking. Then I found that the nuts that I had adjusted that morning were all loose and the cables were moving around, which probably caused the situation above. So I just tightened them down again and flipped the kill switch a couple times and let it prime and there was no blinking. So I will see whats going on tomorrow but if its good and there is no blinking (knock on wood), I think you solved my problem the easy way wibbly.

By the way, you were talking about this thingy and nut to adjust the throttle right? I backed it further out away from the throttle base and this seemed to fix my problem so far. Is there a way to adjust it by the book or is it just kind of whatever you feel, like the clutch cable?


Also, for anyone wondering where the exact location of the throttle position sensor on a 03-06 is, heres a picture I thought would clear up some confusion.
It is the black thing I am pointing to above the radiator hose behind the frame. There is a connector that goes to the tps directly above it completely behind the frame.

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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-01-2014, 09:09 AM
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Haha those "thingys" are you inline adjusters. I haven't found any specific on how they have to be adjust. You just adjust to your preference in regards to how much free play you want in the throttle..which mine is set to be very minimal. Make sure when you turn the handlebars all the way left and right it does not roll the throttle and you should be good.

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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-01-2014, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckain87 View Post
Haha those "thingys" are you inline adjusters. I haven't found any specific on how they have to be adjust. You just adjust to your preference in regards to how much free play you want in the throttle..which mine is set to be very minimal. Make sure when you turn the handlebars all the way left and right it does not roll the throttle and you should be good.

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Ahhh inline adjusters. Learn something new everyday. I have adjusted the throttle so with the slightest turn you'll be moving lol. I like it that way, and the light not being on is a total score. Let it sit all night and no light in the morning. Put some lock tight on the adjusters and tightened 'em down.

Ill update this thread with whether or not the light is totally gone after a few days of riding.

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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 10:33 AM
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Don't listen to them, the throttle freeplay adjusters has NOTHING to do with the tps error. You can have your throttle 0% till 100% before starting the motor if you want, ecu will NOT detect it as error (try it if you want). Tps error means low tps voltage (less than 0.5v) or high tps voltage (more than 4.5).
Probably solutions:
1) (the most likely) Detach and attach the tps plugs TILL YOU HEAR THE CLICK. Then start the motor and check.
2) Check the pins for corrosion or something, spray some contact spray if needed.
3) Try without the power commander, there is a small change that power commander is faulty. Otherwise, maybe the power commander tps cables pinched somewhere and you have that problem.
4) 600rr 2003 uses torx screws (i don't remember what size), NOT security torx. In case you unscrew them, then there is a 99% change that you might put the tps in the wrong position, cause it's very sensitive and difficult to adjust perfectly. Temporary, with the engine not running but with key and kill switch at on position, connect the power commander and check the tps voltage to be 0.503v on 0% throttle (make sure that you have freeplay in your throttle cables ok?). Rotate the tps right and left to achieve the 0.503 voltage, then tight the screws (not on hot motor). On max throttle you must have 4.5v i think, but im not sure about that, i lost my notebook with the values.
5) While you have the power commander and the tps adjusted, very slowly and linear, open up the throttle till 100% and check the voltage if it raises linear. If it has some gap in voltage, then your tps is faulty. Buy a single used tps without the throttle body, and adjust it with the above information i gave you.

Good luck.
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Don't listen to them, the throttle freeplay adjusters has NOTHING to do with the tps error. You can have your throttle 0% till 100% before starting the motor if you want, ecu will NOT detect it as error (try it if you want). Tps error means low tps voltage (less than 0.5v) or high tps voltage (more than 4.5).
Probably solutions:
1) (the most likely) Detach and attach the tps plugs TILL YOU HEAR THE CLICK. Then start the motor and check.
2) Check the pins for corrosion or something, spray some contact spray if needed.
3) Try without the power commander, there is a small change that power commander is faulty. Otherwise, maybe the power commander tps cables pinched somewhere and you have that problem.
4) 600rr 2003 uses torx screws (i don't remember what size), NOT security torx. In case you unscrew them, then there is a 99% change that you might put the tps in the wrong position, cause it's very sensitive and difficult to adjust perfectly. Temporary, with the engine not running but with key and kill switch at on position, connect the power commander and check the tps voltage to be 0.503v on 0% throttle (make sure that you have freeplay in your throttle cables ok?). Rotate the tps right and left to achieve the 0.503 voltage, then tight the screws (not on hot motor). On max throttle you must have 4.5v i think, but im not sure about that, i lost my notebook with the values.
5) While you have the power commander and the tps adjusted, very slowly and linear, open up the throttle till 100% and check the voltage if it raises linear. If it has some gap in voltage, then your tps is faulty. Buy a single used tps without the throttle body, and adjust it with the above information i gave you.

Good luck.
Thanks for the good info gizaha!

I tightened the inline adjuster and the problem seemed to cease. However now when I leave the bike on the kick stand with the handlebars at full lock left, the tps code will come on after flipping the kill switch, but then when standing the bike upright and flipping the kill switch the tps code will not come on.

I did check for corroded connections and could not see any in the tps connectors. To check all those voltages, the service manual says you need a test harness? Am I miss reading something?

Anyone know why the tps light would come on while being on the kick stand? This is what the bike did before I did the fork swap too..

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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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bumpiddy bump

Anyone got any suggestions?

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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-31-2014, 06:37 AM
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Throttle Position Sensor

Just seen this thread while looking up the answers to my own TPS questions. I know its a few months old but I thought this might help. This is what I believe to be correct so if I'm wrong and anyone knows different please correct me.

The bolts holding the TPS can be removed and replaced but unless the TPS is faulty and needs replacing DO NOT MOVE IT! The sensor WILL need to be adjusted after.

Testing the sensor to see if it is working is easily done, all you need is a dc voltage tester/multi meter. I've attached a picture of the manual with the instructions on how it's done. Hopefully you can zoom in and read it.

The TPS can be brought secondhand (eBay etc), but if you want a new one then they only come mounted to a complete throttle body and which is setup from factory.

If the TPS does need adjusting then that's slightly more tricky as a harness is needed (unless your happy to cut into your bikes wiring harness that is). Also, you need to know the voltage reading you should be getting from the sensor when the throttle is in a fully closed position.


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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-31-2014, 06:38 AM
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-31-2014, 06:42 AM
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