Not turning over or starting - 600RR.net
Troubleshooting Having trouble with your bike? Common know issues or trobuleshooting questions here.

 
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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Not turning over or starting

Just rode home, got off the bike went into the house to take my gear off. Went back out, put the bike on the paddock stand went to start the bike to oil the chain (yes I know this isn't the safe way to do it), but she won't start. Trys to turn over but doesn't. Checked the battery and voltage is at 12.27. Any ideas of what to check?



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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 12:52 PM
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Kill switch.

"I don't want to burden you with my problems... but I think I've outgrown my yacht."

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 01:01 PM
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Does the fuel pump primes ? Whining noise



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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 01:03 PM
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Seriously though, what troubleshooting have you done on your own?

You can't expect anyone to be able to effectively help you with your bike considering the complete lack of information you've presented here today. From eletrical to mechanical issues alone there's hundreds of reasons your bike might not start. Not to mention shoddy aftermarket installations and an unknown history. It's nearly impossible for us to get anywhere with a simple "my bike wont start"...

You have to do the work for us. You have to tell us as much as you can. You have to start the troubleshooting on your own.

Do your lights turn on? Do you hear your fuel pump prime? What does it sound like when you try to start it? Do you have gas? Does your dash show an FI light? What was the last thing you did to your bike? How many miles do you have? What is the average operating temp? What kind of ride did you just go on?

The list of questions can go on for days. Only you know your bike. We need help, if you expect us to help you.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 01:06 PM
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It might be a simple reason as a hot rectifier / regulator since you just got home from a ride
old generations 03 / 04 are known for not starting when rectifier/ regulator gets to hot got to wait until the unit cools off



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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry ldn. I was pissed about the bike and rushed the post. My diagnostic skills are limited and checking the voltage is all I've done but when the ignition is all, I have lights, fuel pump primes. My ride home was normal which is to say not fast paced.(18miles 30 mins ). Operating temp wasn't unusual. Highest I saw was 104c. Did an oil change yesterday. But unusual thing is when I try to start, it try to turn once then looses all power (dash goes off). FI light goes out as usual. Have gas and at 20kmiles.. If it helps I can upload a video

Thanks moeman. I will leave it for a bit and try again

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 01:23 PM
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Sounds like a hot rectifier / regulator just let the bike cool off for twenty minutes or so then give it a try



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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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Never ever heard of this as a common problem. Will check again in a while then. Guess I'll lube the chain the old fashioned way now then

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 01:43 PM
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The 03/04 rectifier has a protective metal plate that covers it the 05/06 does not their mounting location is the same at the bottom left side of the bike close to the exhaust headers .

I know here in the US lots of 03 /04 owners changed their rectifier / regulator to the newer version just like lots of Triumph 675 owners have done as well no big deal its a vital component in bike's charging system and does get hot

Starting with the 07 model the location has been changed and it now sits still on the bike left side all the way to the top slightly below gas tank bittom edge & behind middle fairing it might not get that much air but its away from any heat coming from exhaust headers plus no metal plate either .



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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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So I just tried to start it again, and it started the same way, dash looses power, but then it started clicking...not sure how to explain it. Then I noticed the fuel pump whine was fluctuating in pitch....question: how quickly does the voltage drop when the ignition is on? Mines dropping .01v a second with the ignition on. I've just just put the battery on a tender as the voltage was below 10v (where I've kept trying to start it)

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 02:04 PM
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Clicking means a weak battery get it charged up



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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 03:55 PM
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Might be just as simple as dead battery. Mine did the same thing...full primed, cluster light up but once I press the start button, all I hear is the ticking sound and after repeating it couple times, the ticking sounds would get weaker and the cluster dimmer. When you said that the fuell pump primed but whine that means the juice in your battery is out. What I did though, I left the battery charged till its full and restart. While waiting for the battery fully charged I went to get me a new battery. If bike still won't start, install the new battery at least you can rule out one problem and jump on the next troubleshooting (whatever next is)
Good luck.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-01-2014, 05:06 PM
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You can (kinda) narrow it down to the battery if you can bump start the thing. You said you just had it running so the battery can't be fully cooked. Might have enough life left in it after a bump to last you to the nearest parts store. The starter does draw some serious current so while there may not be enough juice to crank, there might be just enough to keep it running.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-02-2014, 05:52 AM Thread Starter
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After putting it on the charger, it started fine, but I am still concerned. It's never done that before, and there was enough voltage in the battery, so should have been able to turn over. Could there be something else at play here?

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-02-2014, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslindsay View Post
After putting it on the charger, it started fine, but I am still concerned. It's never done that before, and there was enough voltage in the battery, so should have been able to turn over. Could there be something else at play here?

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Yeah, very much so: the actual reason the battery didn't charge itself on the last ride.

Don't fix symptoms, fix problems; get yourself a service manual and a multimeter (a $15 cheapie will work fine for this application) and start looking at your voltage regulator and stator testing procedures. If you catch it soon enough it'll probably be the regulator only, if you leave it go it'll be the regulator, stator and battery.

Mike
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-03-2014, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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So I have the service manual and busted out the multimeter. Not sure what I'm looking for but my results are as follows. These test were what YouTube said to do, if I've missed or done it wrong, let me know.

R/R Diode test -
+ or - on multimeter
R or G on R/R wiring

+g phase1. 443
+g phase2. 427
+g phase3. 388
-r phase1. 437
-r phase2. 434
-r phase3. 431

Stator
Resistance 0.3-0.4 ohms between phases

AC voltage when idleing ~10v
AC voltage when reved ~8v-9v
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-03-2014, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslindsay View Post
So I have the service manual and busted out the multimeter. Not sure what I'm looking for but my results are as follows. These test were what YouTube said to do, if I've missed or done it wrong, let me know.

R/R Diode test -
+ or - on multimeter
R or G on R/R wiring

+g phase1. 443
+g phase2. 427
+g phase3. 388
-r phase1. 437
-r phase2. 434
-r phase3. 431

Stator
Resistance 0.3-0.4 ohms between phases

AC voltage when idleing ~10v
AC voltage when reved ~8v-9v
Service manual isn't in front of me right now but compare the readings to what the manual says they should be and go from there.

When you say AC voltage how are you measuring that and where?

If it's the typical spot, across the battery, you should be measuring DC and not AC volts and with AC volt reading that high I'd say your RR is toast; if you meant DC volts then your stator is definitely suspect. You will see some AC voltage, but it should be well under a volt at the battery.

To verify even further there should be a stator output test where you start the bike and read AC volts on the plug to test it's output. Should be (I think, do not quote me and look in your manual to be sure) like 60 volts AC on each phase with the bike running and will rise and fall with RPM. Regardless of the number it should be even between all three; if it's not your stator is bad.

Be glad you checked or your bike would have left you stranded again.

Mike
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-03-2014, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Looks like I missed about out. DC voltage across the battery at idle is 13.8v. The stator output test your referring to is the AC results listed (with the R/R connected). I just disconnected R/R and tested the stator output again and got 18v and idle which increased and the revs increased.

Will check the service manual but you right about testing this again before I went out...still freaking annoying :(

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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-03-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jslindsay View Post
Looks like I missed about out. DC voltage across the battery at idle is 13.8v. The stator output test your referring to is the AC results listed (with the R/R connected). I just disconnected R/R and tested the stator output again and got 18v and idle which increased and the revs increased.

Will check the service manual but you right about testing this again before I went out...still freaking annoying :(

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Sounds like the stator is fine and 13.8V at idle is about right; what do you get as the revs rise? Should go up to the mid 14's and stay; if it rises above 15V then the regulator is bad but at this point it seems like the charging system is working, though the "older" RR's tend to act up after they get hot. Go for a ride and get the bike good and hot then check the charging DC voltages again.

If it were me I'd buy the updated RR but I'd be sure it's acting up first.

Mike
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-03-2014, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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I've just been following through the whole battery / charging system section of the service manual. Its conclusion is that the battery is shot. Based on there "calculation" that battery voltage < charging battery voltage < 15.5v at 5000 rpm. My result was 13.46v.

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post #21 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-03-2014, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslindsay View Post
I've just been following through the whole battery / charging system section of the service manual. Its conclusion is that the battery is shot. Based on there "calculation" that battery voltage < charging battery voltage < 15.5v at 5000 rpm. My result was 13.46v.

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Not sure how, if the result is what you say, you're coming up with a bad battery. The only way you can determine if a battery is bad is with it out of the bike and on a load tester. If that 13.46V is your charging voltage with it still in the bike and hooked up to the charging system it's your charging circuit. Re-read their diagnostics and their conclusions, I think. I'll grab my manual in a bit and go over the section as well, but that conclusion doesn't seem right to me.

Mike
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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 08-05-2014, 04:49 AM Thread Starter
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Well I've gone on 2 rides (to and from work) 18miles each way and the bike was fine. I'm going to run through the diagnostics again when I get a chance.

Thanks
Jack

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