False neutrals? Need some help. - 600RR.net
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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False neutrals? Need some help.

At the track this past weekend when shifting from 2nd to 3rd, my bike (2005 600rr) would somehow find neutral. The green neutral light would come on and I'd end up revving the crap out of the bike coming out of corners. The bike has a dynojet quick shifter so I'm shifting WOT.

I know zero about trannys, but I do know that neutral is between 1st and 2nd gear....so what is happening here?

How does a bike find neutral between 2nd and 3rd? Whenever I'd get the neutral, I'd upshift and it would put me back into third.

Is there a problem or was I just lazy with my shifting (only happened when switching gears, never while in gear)? I'll post a video of this happening later on.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 03:29 PM
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It does sound like there may be a mechanical problem. The only other thing I can think of, is that you are not upshifting all the way into third and the lever is bouncing back down (or up) and past 2nd, into neutral. Do you have aftermarket rearsets? Are you normal or GP shift?

Last edited by FightingChance; 11-05-2014 at 03:32 PM.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FightingChance View Post
It does sound like there may be a mechanical problem. The only other thing I can think of, is that you are not upshifting all the way into third and the lever is bouncing back down (or up) and past 2nd, into neutral. Do you have aftermarket rearsets? Are you normal or GP shift?

Vortex Rearsets setup for normal shift. I am assuming these must be false neutrals because when I encounter one and I upshift, it puts the bike back into 3rd gear. This suggests to me that it didn't go into "REAL" neutral, becausae upshifting in that case would have landed me in 2nd gear.

I also don't want to discount user error - that I was getting tired and sloppy with my shifts - especially taking third gear still hanging off the bike coming out of a corner. It's an awkward position to shift from. BUT....I've never seemed to have this issue before.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 04:00 PM
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you probably aren't being firm enough with the lever. you can try moving the lever down slightly so you have more ankle bend to get under it, then you will naturally pull up harder.

otherwise you may have a slightly bent shift fork which isn't allowing a complete engagement.

what is your programmed kill time for the qs?
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
you probably aren't being firm enough with the lever. you can try moving the lever down slightly so you have more ankle bend to get under it, then you will naturally pull up harder.

otherwise you may have a slightly bent shift fork which isn't allowing a complete engagement.

what is your programmed kill time for the qs?

I can try that. It happened to me probably 4-5 times during the last track day. After the first session I began to focus more on being firm with my upshifts and it seemed to be fine. Later on in the advanced group when I started amping it up and going into autopilot mode (less focus on shifts), it happened again.

Also when the shift does not give the false neutral, from 2nd to 3rd seemed to feel a bit grabbier than any other gear change.

I do not know what the kill time is set at because the bike came with the QS and this is my first season using it for full time track duty. In fact, this season has been my first experience ever with a dynojet QS.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 05:08 PM
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Yeah, investigating the QS could yield results.

Separate from that, GP shift is kinda awesome because instead of pulling up you get to push down to upshift which makes corner exit lots easier. :D

edit: Thinking about it more, if this is happening while leaned over, it is super hard to pull on the shifter, so it may just be shallow shifts.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
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I absolutely see the benefit to GP shift. Ratcheting up on that shift arm is very hard when coming out of a turn. I keep my body off the bike as long as possible to keep my lean angle down. I am just nervous to change and afraid I will accidently downshift and lock my rear lol.

My local guy is super cool. What I can probably do is see if we can duplicate any tranny issues on the dyno. Do a sessions worth of pulls/ shifts and see if we can duplicate in a controlled setting. Last time he ran it on there free of charge to check my oil pressure relief valve. He's just cool like that.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgswol View Post
I can try that. It happened to me probably 4-5 times during the last track day. After the first session I began to focus more on being firm with my upshifts and it seemed to be fine. Later on in the advanced group when I started amping it up and going into autopilot mode (less focus on shifts), it happened again.

Also when the shift does not give the false neutral, from 2nd to 3rd seemed to feel a bit grabbier than any other gear change.

I do not know what the kill time is set at because the bike came with the QS and this is my first season using it for full time track duty. In fact, this season has been my first experience ever with a dynojet QS.

1-2 and 2-3 have a larger gap in ratios than 3-4, 4-5 and 5-6. the last set are pretty tight, so you will find them smoother (the engine has to drop fewer revs). that's normal.


try dropping the lever and see if that helps.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 06:05 PM
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Yeah, I almost blew up my bike twice when going to GP shift. Now I'm solid on it. Fun times!
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 11-05-2014, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
1-2 and 2-3 have a larger gap in ratios than 3-4, 4-5 and 5-6. the last set are pretty tight, so you will find them smoother (the engine has to drop fewer revs). that's normal.


try dropping the lever and see if that helps.
Good info


fchance - maybe next season I'll try GP.
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